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Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL So you'd have added a drop of water to the Saints' squirt gun against Cleveland's water cannon? Look at the contracts. Quick summary: Zeitler: 3 years, $31 million guaranteed, $42 million total outlay Warford: 2 years, ...

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Old 05-17-2017, 06:51 PM   #21
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
So you'd have added a drop of water to the Saints' squirt gun against Cleveland's water cannon? Look at the contracts. Quick summary:

Zeitler: 3 years, $31 million guaranteed, $42 million total outlay
Warford: 2 years, $17 million guaranteed, $21 million total outlay

In short, it's no contest as Zeitler's contract is essentially double of Warford's. So AP's $3 million or so is essentially a drop in the bucket.


It's pretty clear the Saints didn't have the money to make a valid offer fo Zeitler.

It's just not possible to have All Pro starters at every position and All pro backups too. Last season the O-line was very effective. This season, at least on paper, the O-line is upgraded.

BTW Unger isn't out indefinitely. Depending on reports, he's unavailable for 3-5 months. The outside edge of that is the 1st quarter of the season plus the bye. If that's what it takes to get his foot healthy enough to play the rest of the season, then it's time well spent.

Every season folks worry about something on offense. Yet every season the offense seems to do fine as long as #9 is back there taking snaps. Last I checked, that hasn't changed.

If you want fact based worrying, then filling in for injuries should be the target. This seems to happen all over the organization.

SFIAH
Except when he plays the likes of Houston and Detroit.
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:56 PM   #22
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

And we can win two games without Unger? I'm not so sure. We know the history after starting 1-3. TB week 14 showed Brees could not play well without Unger and so that was McCoy but Carolina and Miami have pass rushers too.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:11 AM   #23
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
What if Klein and Okafor don't work out? Then what?
Then we have 9 other linebackers and 4 other defensive linemen to plug into the spot.

I'm pretty sure I'll never get this concept through to you, but I'm going to try anyway. NFL Football isn't like basketball or baseball where the addition of a single superstar can completely turn around a franchise. Football is a system game where the best overall collection of scheme, coaching and talent carries the day. It's not possible to draft, trade, or sign a single player, even a QB, that can turn a franchise into a dynasty.

Do I think that this defense will be the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens? No. But with the other phases of the game the Saints have, they don't need to be for the team to have success in 2017.

SFIAH
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:29 AM   #24
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
Every season folks worry about something on offense. Yet every season the offense seems to do fine as long as #9 is back there taking snaps. Last I checked, that hasn't changed.
Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
Except when he plays the likes of Houston and Detroit.
OK then genius GM, who would you have taking snaps over the last 11 seasons that both has the historical production and is successful against Houston and Detroit?

I know you are a grass is greener type of guy. That somehow in each and every player, coaching, and GM positions, that there's a better option that the options we have now.

But unfortunately for you, the offseason in terms of talent evaluation and acquisition is now over. The vast majority of the 53 for 2017 are currently on the 90 man roster. So instead of speculating of "what if an asteroid hits Airline Drive?" or "the HOF QB had a tough game against a good defense" instead tell us how to use the assets we have for maximum positve impact.

SFIAH
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:52 AM   #25
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

You are far too logical, SFIAH. You'll make his head hurt.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:49 AM   #26
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
Then we have 9 other linebackers and 4 other defensive linemen to plug into the spot.

I'm pretty sure I'll never get this concept through to you, but I'm going to try anyway. NFL Football isn't like basketball or baseball where the addition of a single superstar can completely turn around a franchise. Football is a system game where the best overall collection of scheme, coaching and talent carries the day. It's not possible to draft, trade, or sign a single player, even a QB, that can turn a franchise into a dynasty.

Do I think that this defense will be the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens? No. But with the other phases of the game the Saints have, they don't need to be for the team to have success in 2017.

SFIAH

If we didn't sign Klein and Okafor, we would have the money for Zeitler. I think its rediculous we abandoned the thought of getting a big FA when the reason Byrd flopped was because we didn't have the players on defense to support him. He was also signed because of Payton's jealousy of Seattle and not him really being a need whatsoever. Browner we knew drew penalties, everyone said well at least he's aggressive. Don't believe me? Pull up the old thread where he was signed. Zeitler would have been money well spent. Payton just doesn't understand these intangibles.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:52 AM   #27
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
OK then genius GM, who would you have taking snaps over the last 11 seasons that both has the historical production and is successful against Houston and Detroit?

I know you are a grass is greener type of guy. That somehow in each and every player, coaching, and GM positions, that there's a better option that the options we have now.

But unfortunately for you, the offseason in terms of talent evaluation and acquisition is now over. The vast majority of the 53 for 2017 are currently on the 90 man roster. So instead of speculating of "what if an asteroid hits Airline Drive?" or "the HOF QB had a tough game against a good defense" instead tell us how to use the assets we have for maximum positve impact.

SFIAH
It means the offensive line was exposed. You can look good against teams known or their secondaries like Denver and Seattle but when you play pass rushers like Ansah, Watt, Vernon it's not the same.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:56 AM   #28
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

I'm gonna go on a limb and say the 2015 saints oline would still have done well against Oakland, Carolina, SF, LA, and Arizona. Oakland was not the defense last year people were predicting before the season. We had Carolina off a bye and we were coming off being swept. SF was horrible, LA was a showoff game. Arizona's defense fell apart.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:17 PM   #29
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Re: Underhill: The Saints believe their running game has the potential to be as good as anyone's

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
If we didn't sign Klein and Okafor, we would have the money for Zeitler. I think its rediculous we abandoned the thought of getting a big FA when the reason Byrd flopped was because we didn't have the players on defense to support him. He was also signed because of Payton's jealousy of Seattle and not him really being a need whatsoever. Browner we knew drew penalties, everyone said well at least he's aggressive. Don't believe me? Pull up the old thread where he was signed. Zeitler would have been money well spent. Payton just doesn't understand these intangibles.
Signing Klein and Okafor had nothing whatsoever about being able to sign Zeitler. The Saints currently have over $5.6 million in free cap after factoring in all rookie contracts. The Saints will also regain $7.9 million in additional cap after June 1st from the Jarius Byrd release. And not to mention roster bonuses that can be converted to signing bonuses can bring an additional $6 plus million in 2017 cap. Now factor in the $3.8 million Warford is costing in 2017 and we would have over $23 million to pay Zeitler in 2017. The deal Zeitler got from the Browns has him with a 2017 cap hit of $8.4 million.

It is total bullcrap saying signing Klein and/or Okafor had ANY affect on being able to sign Zeitler.

By the way, Klein and Okafor combined are only counting $4.8 million toward the 2017 cap.

Get your facts straight.
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