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Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Tic toc,tic toc, get the picture? You guys quit the personal stuff please. Seems to me you\'re just saying the same things over and over. Let\'s get back to the original posting. I got the picture, JoeSam. I just had ...

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Old 04-11-2005, 01:25 PM   #51
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Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Tic toc,tic toc, get the picture? You guys quit the personal stuff please. Seems to me you\'re just saying the same things over and over. Let\'s get back to the original posting.
I got the picture, JoeSam. I just had to get in a few jabs on saintwhodi. Those upper-cuts were getting to me.

I thought there may be ONE thread that you didn\'t read. LOL

Soon the draft will have come and gone. It\'s a long strecth after that with no new Saints\' news being reported. Better make some of those other moderators take up some slack for you.

You\'re like the Lone Ranger on here trying to keep things under control.

Hard Work. Lots of criticism. But if I\'m come to respect the job you do .... there\'s hope for everyone ...

[Edited on 11/4/2005 by GumboBC]
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:32 PM   #52
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Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

LKelley67 --

You\'re right. Even though I think you tend to be on the negative side of the fence more times than not ... That doesn\'t make you wrong. But ... just the same ... I disagree.

If Haslett thought Sullivan did haven\'t the skills to get the job done, then I think Haslett would have cut him like he did Tebucky Jones.

Furthermore ... Haslett said Sullivan has all the talent in the world but his attitude held him back.

Whose opinion should I put more stock in? Yours or Haslett?

While Haslett could very well be wrong .. I tend to think he knows a little more about Sullivan that you.

And Sullivan was going to be picked in the first round. Probably not the 6th pick, though. Still ... the guy had to show some talent to be picked in the first round.

Not getting on the field doesn\'t mean he doesn\'t have talent. What it suggest to me is that Sullivan was very immature and it cost him the starting job that he was handed.

I see that many fans are upset with Sullivan. And rightly so. But I just can\'t let my personal feelings get in the way of what\'s best for this team.

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Old 04-11-2005, 01:48 PM   #53
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First, I don\'t think Sullivan has shown anything on an NFL field to prove that he has starting DT talent. The fact that Haslet benched him for poor attitude seems to back this up because Haslet would not have benched him long-term as he did if Haslet thought Sullivan would be able to contribute.

Haslett said Sullivan has all the talent in the world but his attitude held him back.
This statement doesn\'t change my opinion that Sullivan has not shown enough talent. However, it is the type of statement that needs to be cited by a link. This statement cannot be given any weight without proper validation.
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:50 PM   #54
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Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

I don\'t understand something. Maybe someone can help me.

Cap wise, cutting Sullivan this year will hit us harder than cutting him next year. Is that correct?

If so, what is the downside of giving him a shot in 2005?
Maybe more of an opinion than rock-solid fact:
If we cut Sullivan now we will be hit with the remaining prorated signing bonus. The signing bonus was actually 11 million (7 million when he signed, 4 million before last season). The contract was for 7 years, but could be voided after 5 if Sullivan met certain playing time goals (which he won\'t reach).

So it\'s very tricky what will actually count against the cap. 3/5 of the bonus or 5/7 of the bonus? In any case, if we cut him next year he will only count 2/5 or 4/7 of his bonus against the cap.
That\'s why cutting Sullivan this year hits us harder cap wise.
Well, that\'s actually only true if he\'s cut before June 1st ...

If he is cut after June 1st the \"dead money\" counting against the cap is split. Only 1 part of the prorated bonus counts against the cap in the year he is cut, the rest counts next year. This means if we cut him this year on June 2nd, 1/7 of the bonus will count against the cap this year and 4/7 next year. That\'s pretty much the worst case scenario.

So what\'s the downside of keeping him in 2005?
* The upside of cutting him is that the cap ramifications will be done with after 2005 and he won\'t count anything against the cap in 2006.
* If he is a team cancer again and there\'s no other way to send a message but to cut him mid-season, the 4/7 (or 2/5) of his bonus will count against the cap in 2006 without him being on the team. With 2006 being the year we will need every dime, this is - as mentioned above - the worst case scenario.
This could be as much as 6 million! And that scenario isn\'t out there, it\'s definitely a possibility.

If you want to play it save, you cut him NOW. But as I have stated earlier, the Saints won\'t cut him before June 1st and after that you can\'t very well cut him because of the 2006 cap.
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:55 PM   #55
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if it was only about talent and performance i think he would have been gone already. it is just the contractual obligation that has him here now.

perhaps we need some clintonesque, what do you define as talented? physical tools? size, combine like number analysis? i venture to say you could bring in some athletes to the combine who never played football and wow some coaches. he certainly HAD to have talent to get a scholarship to georgia. he HAD to have some talent to get drafted, even if too high, in the nfl. i think most would define talent as much broader than than physical tools though. nose for the ball, killer instinct, overdrive when the crunch is on, savviness reading the play, etc. you can have talent but if it is not cultured and honed it will subside. know anyone that used to play guitar pretty good but couldn\'t strum a song anymore? giving that many millions of dollars to an immature country kid from georgia and then ask him to step it up is weighty. that is why i have no grudge against him. scouts should have been fired if they misread him that bad. if the reports questioned his instincts then whoever made that decision to leap so far for him should have been canned.

tebuck is a similar case. he was a #22 first round pick. load of physical tools dissed by belicheck. load of physical tools when he got he here. load of\'em when he left. when you are a free safety released by the worst defense in the league that is an indictment of truer football talent though. and those types do get more chances. you cannot decide to have physical tools you weren\'t endowed with. you can decide to succeed to the best of your ability though whatever level that might be.

you did hijack this darren howard thread too. go start a \'should sullivan be cut?\' thread next time.
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:59 PM   #56
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There\'s little likelihood that he\'ll be cut in \'05 anyway. It may be preferred by some, but he\'s showing just enough attitude change to make him worth the risk versus the cap hit.

I would say he wont be cut before June 1, 2006 so that if he does still suck by then we can spread the remaining hit through 1/7 for \'06 (when we have all the re-signing nightmares) and 3/7 in \'07.

I believe that if the Saints are taking the 1/7 cap hit each year, but he was to void the final years if he met the minimum, then the rest of the cap hits would be accelerated into the first year after he voided the contract. This is moot since he wont make playing time minimums to void, but that\'s my best guess as to what would happen.
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Old 04-11-2005, 02:04 PM   #57
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my apoogies for hijacking the thread. im still relatively new with all this. sorry lkelley, i did not mean to take anything from your original post
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Old 04-11-2005, 02:12 PM   #58
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no, no, BR. no prob dewd. gumbo did it, post #4

i just mention it cuz i was interested in some howard talk, then it gets obscured by the bickering over sullivan and what one poster thinks of another.
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Old 04-11-2005, 02:16 PM   #59
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Falcons vs Saints Game Center

Wednesday, November 24:

Q: What kind of hours are you putting in now?
Jim Haslett: Just normal hours like every other coach in the league. [We] come in early, get in here about five o\'clock, quarter to five. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday stay until about midnight and Thursday until nine-thirty or so. Friday, normally you get home for dinner.

Q: When things are going like they are for you, do you feel like you have to do more than that?
Haslett: I think you do what you can do and I don\'t think we\'re going to change - at least from a coaching staff standpoint - from what we\'re doing time-wise and preparation-wise. I think we try and prepare our game as well as we can.

Q: Do you have to address your team about the stuff that your owner said about them?
Haslett: I said something to them, but it was kind of in passing. It\'s just something that...he\'s the owner, he\'s frustrated, he expects more and it\'s his prerogative. And I just think everybody else in this organization is frustrated. It\'s just part of the business and we\'ll deal with it.

Q: Looking back at the way things have turned out this season, is there something you could say like, If only this guy hadn\'t gotten hurt\' or If we hadn\'t lost this game\' or something like that...things would be much different?
Haslett: No. You know what? The bottom line is this thing is not over yet and we\'re one game away from being in the playoffs, so I think everybody has...and you look at all the teams that have a chance to be in the playoffs and I think they\'re all the same. You talk about Minnesota, Saint Louis, the Giants, Arizona, Tampa, Detroit, Chicago and us, the one thing you can say about them, they\'re all inconsistent. So the team that can put a string of wins together - three or four wins in a row - is usually the team that\'s going to make the playoffs. I think we\'re kind of lumped in with all those teams. We\'ve been inconsistent. We\'ve played maybe one or two really good games and then we\'ve been inconsistent in all areas. So hopefully down these next six weeks we can put a couple good games together.

Q: The Falcons have a pretty decent lead in the division. Are you guys looking more at the two wildcard spots?
Haslett: I don\'t know. I think you just worry about trying to win a football game. I don\'t worry about winning a division or chasing the Falcons. We just need to try and get back to a win and try to get a win before you can get two of them. And we just haven\'t done that. I think the Falcons have done a nice job. They\'re finding ways to win football games and different methods and different ways to do it. They\'re playing with great confidence and I think that\'s probably why they\'re where they are right now and we\'re where we\'re at.

Q: What\'s it like for a coach to go through a season with a lot of speculation surrounding his job?
Haslett: I\'ve been in this business where it doesn\'t really bother me. I\'m more concerned with my players and my coaches. I don\'t worry about myself. I want to win games because of these players downstairs and because of the coaches I have in the other room. To me, that\'s the most important thing. It\'s not always about head coaches. It\'s about everyone else who\'s involved.

Q: Has your team\'s inconsistent play been the biggest disappointment for you so far?
Haslett: Yeah, I think so. And it\'s in all areas. We\'ll do something really well and then the next week it\'ll be the same people and we won\'t do very well. That probably bothers me more than anything. You go out and you beat a good football team like the Chiefs and we play well on offense and we do a lot of different things, and then we come back the next week and we don\'t play worth a darn. And it\'s inconsistencies within the game, too. I think if somehow we can put it together, then you always have a chance, then.

Q: If someone from another team came and asked you what you thought of Ricky Williams and should they trade for him, what would you say?
Haslett: I probably wouldn\'t answer them. I think that\'s something...you\'ve got to look at him on the film and you\'ve got to evaluate what everybody thinks about him. I think he\'s a heck of a football player. He\'s aloof, but I think he\'s basically a pretty good kid.

Q: Coach, it seems like you haven\'t gotten a lot of production out of Jonathan Sullivan.
Haslett: Well, Jonathan hasn\'t played to the level that we thought, but Charles Grant\'s done a nice job and [Donte\'] Stallworth is really starting to play well. We\'ve got guys playing....Montrae Holland, who we drafted in the fourth round and Colby Bockwoldt, who we drafted in the seventh round - they\'re playing for us. So we\'ve got a few guys who I think will be good players in the future: Devery Henderson and John Stinchcomb. But Jonathan\'s a guy you\'d like to see be more productive.

Q: Who are some guys on the Falcons who stand out to you?
Haslett: I think they\'re doing a great job. Obviously, the quarterback and both running backs are running at a high level. The line\'s doing a nice job. Crumpler\'s the real deal. We\'ve faced so many tight ends this year who are on his level: [Tony] Gonzalez and [Antonio] Gates and him. It\'s unbelievable. I\'ve never seen this many good tight ends in the NFL. Their receivers are real explosive and I think the defense is really doing a nice job. They\'re playing solid, sound ball. They\'re playing hard and I think Jimmy has done a nice job with that team.

Q: Why do you think it is that there are so many good tight ends right now?
Haslett: That\'s a good question because I didn\'t think a couple years ago that there were this many. But really, Gates came out of nowhere, Crumpler just keeps getting better and better every year and Gonzalez has always been a good players. But there are other ones. Eric Johnson has done a nice job in San Francisco. We\'ve got a couple good tight ends. To me, there are just more quality tight ends then there have ever been.

Q: Could you talk about your friendship with Coach Mora. He talks about you as being someone he thinks a lot of.
Haslett: Well, Jim and I have a great relationship. So do our families. We worked together here for his father and that\'s where we became close. Jimmy\'s got a great mind for football. I was the coordinator one year he was the secondary coach and we really did it together and he\'s just, besides being - to me - a close friend, I think he\'s got a great football mind and he\'s very innovative. He gets along with players really well and I think he has the whole thing. Obviously, he\'s got a great pedigree too because he learned a lot from being around his father all those years.

Q: How much of what Mora\'s doing do you see in some of the things you guys like to do defensively?
Haslett: Jim does a great job. Him and Ed...I think Ed\'s done a great job with that defense, too. He gets the most out of players and he knows coverages and the blitzes and all that. He\'s done an excellent job.

Q: Do you notice that when you\'re on the road and thinking of challenging a play that the Jumbotron is less likely to show the replay and at home it\'s the reverse?
Haslett: Well I hope it works that way. We work it that way here.

Q: So you notice on the road that they\'ll almost never give you replays that\'ll help you out?
Haslett: If they did it here, they\'d get a tongue lashing on Monday.

Sure sounds like Haslett is playig up Sullivan\'s level of talent here Gumbo. Direct quote \"Jonathan is a guy you\'d like to see be more productive.\" \"Jonathan hasn\'t played to the level that we thought.\" Where\'s your link? This is straight from Haslett.

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Old 04-12-2005, 08:36 AM   #60
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Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

saintwhodi --

You want a link where Haslett said Sullivan is a major talent?

Wait no longer!!

\"He is getting better,\" Gullickson said. \"One of the philosophies that I have always held true is that you give a guy three years in your program and you should see some sign at that point where things are going to be good or not so good. We are kind of at that point this year.\"

Sullivan is a major talent, said Haslett, who traded up to the sixth pick in the 2003 draft to select him. He could be a top player in the league if he worked at it, Haslett said. The question is -- will he?

\"You know the old saying that you can lead the cow to the trough, but you can\'t make him drink the water,\" Haslett said. \"We will do everything possible we can as coaches that we need to do to get this kid to help us win football games and that is our goal this year.\"
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