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brooks? is he good?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Danno No worry Cher, he's a good QB. There's simply a contingent here that think he's the worst QB to put on a helmet no matter what happens. I'm starting to wonder what the real reason is ...

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Old 07-04-2005, 10:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Danno
No worry Cher, he's a good QB. There's simply a contingent here that think he's the worst QB to put on a helmet no matter what happens. I'm starting to wonder what the real reason is that so many hate him.
You're not the only one Danno.

Yes, he is a good QB.
Agreed.

SFIAH
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Old 07-04-2005, 11:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by BlackonBlack
Brooks, Brooks, blah-blah-blah. I have no quotes of good/ or bad for him. All i'll say is 1 player doesn't decide the outcome of a NFL game or season.

It's unfathomable for me to comprehend how, Brooks can be blamed for sooo much, and i'm sitting in front of my tv, watching as our defense is the joke of every week. No pun intended.
BonB,

Thanks for pointing out the obvious to us rational Saints fans. The team has problems at multiple levels. We should be extremely happy what their level of dysfunction that they can pull out a 500 record.

Last year there were problems at QB. And the rushing game. And on the offensive line. And with the Tight Ends. And with receivers dropping balls. The Defensive Tackles and Linebackers in particular seemed overmatched. An old man and a camp casualty (Smith and Handbrick) handed he defense their collective behinds rushing the ball for Arizona. The coaching was been sometimes haphazard, sometimes predictable, and most times unsettling. There are problems everywhere on this team.

And yet they finished 8-8 with a 4 game winning streak and a chance to make the playoffs. And put those pesky Panthers out of the playoffs last year.

The offense needs to be more consistent. Brooks needs to make less mistakes. Receivers need to more consistently catch the ball. Deuce and the new right side of the offensive line needs to bring it. The defense needs a "Three and out!" mentality this year. 3rd down needs to be the winning down for the defense this season.

Brooks isn't the most pressing problem on this team. I'd be interested in seeing the stats of the QB who should have been brought in to replace him.

SFIAH

The Saints have been to playoffs 4 of the last 5 years and a own a SB championship.

I can hardly believe this happened in my lifetime.
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Old 07-05-2005, 12:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BlackonBlack
Ooops, I was referring to Tom Brady's first year. And I now remember Bledsoe coming in and throwing the TD against the Steelers to win the game...But that was the only offensive score they had throughout the playoffs that year until the Superbowl.

And don't get me started about the Ravens with Dilfer...The Buc's with Brad Johnson and Derrick Brooks the leading scorer for that team up until week 8 of the season.
Or the Rams with Kurt Warner, or the Pats with Brady every other year. And the Rams made it back to the Superbowl but lost to the Pats. Ravens was an anomoly, as it hasn't happened since. And theBucs Superbowl year, Brad Johnson threw for over 3000 yards with 22 Tds and only 6 INTs, completing over 60% of his passes and a 92.9 passer rating, these last two stats higher than Brooks ever. And that was in only 13 games cause Rob Johnson was attempting to be the starter. Seems like he was a pretty good QB.
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:11 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by BlackonBlack
I'm starting to wonder what the real reason is that so many hate him.


You're just now starting to wonder? Ask Rush L.
OK, I can no longer stay silent on this one. It is obvious what you are trying to say. Someone always tries to blame it on the race card.

You've got it the wrong way, however. AB does not have the type of personality that makes him a likeable person. He is egotistical and he has a knack for saying stupid things that tend to rile up the fans and probably his teammates, as well. His type of personality does not go well with mediocrity. It is more suited for someone that has won at least one superbowl. So, the question becomes not "Why do the bashers dislike him?", because, in my eyes the reasons are very apparent and have been discussed over and over on this board. The more appropriate question, IMHO, (and I'm being very sincere when I ask this) is WHY DO THE SUPPORTERS CONTINUE TO SUPPORT HIM EVEN THOUGH HE HAS DONE EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER TO ALIENATE EVERYONE?

You supporters answer that question and you will see the light more clearly.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:58 AM   #15
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Just one question. Why does a question like, "is Brooks a good QB" always have to immediately turn issues of blame? To me that signals either a lack of understanding or the inability to make a good argument. No one asked who is at fault for the Saints short-comings the last few years. If a person had asked that question, the answer would have to start with Loomis, Haslett, and Venturi, before you got to the entire defense, and then, maybe you could look at smaller units (e.g. the LBs or DTs), and then individual players. But that wasn't the question that was asked. The question that was asked is: Is Aaron Brooks a good QB?

This question has been posed on this board about a billion times, and to date, the answer hasn't changed. NO. Aaron Brooks is a talented but inconsistent QB who has not lived up to his potential yet. I don't see how you can argue otherwise.

AB is not the great or even particularly good QB some make him out to be. Nor is he the "reason" that the Saints miss the playoffs. He puts up good stats in meaningless categories. He shows flashes of brilliance and flashes of the 1979 Tampa Bay Bucs Blooper tape. He throws a turf rocket and follows it up with a perfect strike. All in all it averages out. The guy is average. Look at ALL of his numbers and how they rank as compared to other QBs in the league, and you'll see that if you take the average, Brooks ends up the in the 15th or 16th spot pretty much all the time.

But turning the argument to one that debates whether AB caused the Saints not to make the playoffs is misguided. Sure, you could argue that AB is about as inconsistent as they come and that inconsistency from a "team leader" contributes to the enterprise-wide problem with playing up to potential.... but that's minor. The Saints can get to the playoffs and win with AB. But unless his play changes for the better and he becomes more consistent, the Saints will get to the playoffs despite AB, and not because of him. That said, he could very well have a Drew Brees year... it's just that we've all expected that for a while now. I guess we'll see.

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Old 07-05-2005, 01:19 PM   #16
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Seems to me a lot of people want to blame Brooks for everything but the same people won't give him credit for anything good that happens to the team.
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Old 07-05-2005, 02:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Euphoria
Seems to me a lot of people want to blame Brooks for everything but the same people won't give him credit for anything good that happens to the team.
I read so much about Brooks and the debate that swirls around him -- and I will say what I always say -- he is not the biggest problem the saints have right now -- that said -- he is not the QB he thinks he is -- he is as inconsistent as almost any 4 year starter in the league --

But in answer to your statement -- one of the biggest reasons you see this is because he never takes the blame himself -- he is never personally responsible -- he never has a bad game -- in his mind its always someone elses fault -- you look at other QBs and they always say -- I let the team down today -- I played horribly -- ever hear AB say that -- know you hear him say I am a great QB on an average team -=- Maybe if he took a little more personal responsibility he would catch a little slack here and there
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Old 07-05-2005, 03:03 PM   #18
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I think Brooks catches a lot of crap for a variety of reasons. One big one though, IMO, is that he epitomizes everything wrong with the TEAM. Great physical talent, boneheaded and mind boggling play, underacheiving with flashes of brilliance, inconsistent, self-proclaimed greatness but never more than average, and generally a lackadasical attitude towards winning (see smiling discussion). Brooks is the poster boy for the Same Old Saints.

That said, I don't think the arguments in his favor are particularly convincing.

1. He's maybe the best Saints QB ever! Wow. Name a Pro Bowl Saints QB. That's not saying much. Further, the statement isn't even true. Hebert and Everett both have nearly identical numbers at their peaks (Everett's tend to actually be a little bit better), and the Archie comparison is really not even worth discussing.

2. It's the defense's fault! Maybe. I happen to think it's as much, if not more, the coaches' fault than the defense... but what does that have to do with Brooks? His inconsistent play didn't cause the Saints to miss the playoffs, but it was undoubtedly a contributing factor. Moreover, the question isn't whether Brooks is the ONLY thing holding the Saints back, but rather whether the Saints could upgrade the position. I think that they clearly could.

3. He throws for all these yards and stuff! But it takes him 540 attempts to do what it takes Culpepper 400 attempts to do. That's called efficiency, and AB doesn't have any. Stats mean nothing unless taken in context. Compare the important stats that tell you if a QB is doing the little things right and you'll see AB is not.

4. Some people just want to blame AB no matter what. Translation: I have no other arguments. AB hasn't proven it on the field, so what can I say?

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Old 07-05-2005, 03:13 PM   #19
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Archie was a pro bowl QB. Twince as a matter of fact -- once the starter -- that was when we sent 5 players to the Hawaii -- Archie, Chuck "Cocaine Muncie", Wes Chandler, the tight end and a defensive player --

As for comparing Brooks to him -- different era -- would you try to compare Peyton and Unitas -- Favre and Bart Starr -- not apples and oranges -- switch Brooks and Mannings years and see what happens -- but that is not my point here --

My point is that the only thing that really matters is whether you make the playoffs -- To date our TEAM has not been consistent enough to do so -- I personally do not like AB because of his ego and lack of passion/heart but that is totally my opinion -- If he plays with passion and takes responsibility of his own play as well as teh team's I will embrace him with no hard feelings -- If he plays like he has the last 3 years I will say bye bye you don't deserve the money you are going to cost us next year
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Old 07-06-2005, 01:19 AM   #20
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He does have the merit of being a known commodity, whether or not he's any good.
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