Question for the Forum

WhoDat!656 · 02-14-2012, 01:30 PM

If after starting WWII, Hitler had not attempted to exterminate the Jews and the other attrocities (sp) that went with it, would he have been convicted of any war crimes?

Is starting a war, by itself, enough to be convicted of a war crime?

Don't ask me what made me think of this question.

Srgt. Hulka · 02-14-2012, 05:51 PM

I'm certainly no expert, but it seems he would have been convicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity. He would have been convicted and promptly hanged. He wouldn't have spent 25 years on death row and spent millions of taxpayer money with an unending appeals process.

WhoDat!656 · 02-14-2012, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Srgt. Hulka

I'm certainly no expert, but it seems he would have been convicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity. He would have been convicted and promptly hanged. He wouldn't have spent 25 years on death row and spent millions of taxpayer money with an unending appeals process.

War crimes for what?

saintfan · 02-14-2012, 06:24 PM

I think it's a moot point. Hitler's goal was so far beyond a simple conquest...I mean...hell, the world would have let Germany annex Austria I'm sure, and maybe even Poland. Had he stopped there who knows...

Crusader · 02-15-2012, 06:54 AM

He probably could have been indicted for war crimes for civilians getting killed or abuse of prisoners and such things. But on the opposite side tha allied leaders probably could have been indicted too for the fire bombings of a number of german citys which mainly struck against civilians.

SloMotion · 02-15-2012, 08:45 AM

Without the extermination camps, I don't think he gets anymore negative attention then the Japanese or the Italians did after WWII. Nations have started & fought wars throughout history, it's only stuff like the Holocaust that gets you put up in front of a military tribunal.

SmashMouth · 02-15-2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

If after starting WWII, Hitler had not attempted to exterminate the Jews and the other attrocities (sp) that went with it, would he have been convicted of any war crimes?

Is starting a war, by itself, enough to be convicted of a war crime?

Don't ask me what made me think of this question.

So... what made you think of this question? LOL....

Who knows is the likely answer ..... I found it, I guess now, not so eye opening that during my recent stay in Paris there still is an anti-American sentiment amongst the French, and probably in most of Europe... and yes even my father whom was a courier on a bicycle during WWII. How quickly they forget, don't they? I will always remember what my American grandfather said to me once or twice about Finland being the ONLY country that ever repaid the USA for its assistance in freeing all of Europe from this tyrant; a small fact I reminded my father and my step-mother about.

SloMotion · 02-15-2012, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

He probably could have been indicted for war crimes for civilians getting killed or abuse of prisoners and such things. But on the opposite side tha allied leaders probably could have been indicted too for the fire bombings of a number of german citys which mainly struck against civilians.

... don't forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki ... if they'd go after any Axis/Allied leaders for civilian casualties, FDR would be on the hook for dropping those bombs.

Srgt. Hulka · 02-15-2012, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Crusader

He probably could have been indicted for war crimes for civilians getting killed or abuse of prisoners and such things. But on the opposite side tha allied leaders probably could have been indicted too for the fire bombings of a number of german citys which mainly struck against civilians.

Originally Posted by SloMotion

... don't forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki ... if they'd go after any Axis/Allied leaders for civilian casualties, FDR would be on the hook for dropping those bombs.

It was NOT illegal in WWII to wage war on the civilian population of your enemy. It was a part of war, tragic as it may have been, it was a part of war. It was not illegal to wage war on civilians until 1949, after the 4th Geneva Convention. So no, the Allies could not be indicted for war crimes for fire bombing Berlin, Hamburg, Tokyo, and all the other Axis Power cities. And the United States could not be indicted on the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The fact that it was not illegal to wage war on civilian populations during WWII is the reason the war only lasted 4 years. Also, since we dropped "The Bomb" on Japan saved millions of Japanese and American lives. Can you imaging the death toll and how long it would have taken if we had to invade Japan and fight street to street, house to house along the length of the whole country against an enemy that did NOT know the word surrender? Also, with the current Geneva Convention in place, if we had to fight WWII today, the war would last at least 20 years or longer, cost trillions of dollars, and still end up with no winner. (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) And just wait, another World War is coming. It will be another "Crusade," The Christians, or non-Muslims, against the Muslims. It's inevitable. We can all see it on the horizon. I feel for our kids and grandkids for the future we've left them.

Fourth Geneva Convention
The Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, commonly referred to as the Fourth Geneva Convention and abbreviated as GCIV, is one of the four treaties of the Geneva Conventions. It was adopted in August 1949, and defines humanitarian protections for civilians in a war zone, and outlaws the practice of total war. There are currently 194 countries party to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, including this fourth treaty but also including the other three.[1]
In 1993, the United Nations Security Council adopted a report from the Secretary-General and a Commission of Experts which concluded that the Geneva Conventions had passed into the body of customary international law, thus making them binding on non-signatories to the Conventions whenever they engage in armed conflicts.[2]

saintfan · 02-15-2012, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

... don't forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki ... if they'd go after any Axis/Allied leaders for civilian casualties, FDR would be on the hook for dropping those bombs.

Pretty sure that was Truman, but either way.

When you weigh the cost of American lives versus the cost of the enemy's lives, civilian or otherwise, you have what I believe to be all the justification you need, and at the end of the day we TOLD them to shut it down or else we'd wipe them out, one city at a time. It took two before they believed us I guess.

02-14-2012, 01:30 PM	#1
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,046	Question for the Forum If after starting WWII, Hitler had not attempted to exterminate the Jews and the other attrocities (sp) that went with it, would he have been convicted of any war crimes? Is starting a war, by itself, enough to be convicted of a war crime? Don't ask me what made me think of this question.

02-14-2012, 06:21 PM	#3
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,046	Originally Posted by Srgt. Hulka I'm certainly no expert, but it seems he would have been convicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity. He would have been convicted and promptly hanged. He wouldn't have spent 25 years on death row and spent millions of taxpayer money with an unending appeals process. War crimes for what?

02-15-2012, 06:54 AM	#5
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	He probably could have been indicted for war crimes for civilians getting killed or abuse of prisoners and such things. But on the opposite side tha allied leaders probably could have been indicted too for the fire bombings of a number of german citys which mainly struck against civilians. SloMotion likes this.

02-15-2012, 09:34 AM	#7
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,125 Blog Entries: 29	Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 If after starting WWII, Hitler had not attempted to exterminate the Jews and the other attrocities (sp) that went with it, would he have been convicted of any war crimes? Is starting a war, by itself, enough to be convicted of a war crime? Don't ask me what made me think of this question. So... what made you think of this question? LOL.... Who knows is the likely answer ..... I found it, I guess now, not so eye opening that during my recent stay in Paris there still is an anti-American sentiment amongst the French, and probably in most of Europe... and yes even my father whom was a courier on a bicycle during WWII. How quickly they forget, don't they? I will always remember what my American grandfather said to me once or twice about Finland being the ONLY country that ever repaid the USA for its assistance in freeing all of Europe from this tyrant; a small fact I reminded my father and my step-mother about.

02-15-2012, 09:42 AM	#8
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Originally Posted by Crusader He probably could have been indicted for war crimes for civilians getting killed or abuse of prisoners and such things. But on the opposite side tha allied leaders probably could have been indicted too for the fire bombings of a number of german citys which mainly struck against civilians. ... don't forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki ... if they'd go after any Axis/Allied leaders for civilian casualties, FDR would be on the hook for dropping those bombs.

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02-14-2012, 05:51 PM	#2
Srgt. Hulka 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 4,417	I'm certainly no expert, but it seems he would have been convicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity. He would have been convicted and promptly hanged. He wouldn't have spent 25 years on death row and spent millions of taxpayer money with an unending appeals process.

02-14-2012, 06:24 PM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	I think it's a moot point. Hitler's goal was so far beyond a simple conquest...I mean...hell, the world would have let Germany annex Austria I'm sure, and maybe even Poland. Had he stopped there who knows...

02-15-2012, 08:45 AM	#6
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Without the extermination camps, I don't think he gets anymore negative attention then the Japanese or the Italians did after WWII. Nations have started & fought wars throughout history, it's only stuff like the Holocaust that gets you put up in front of a military tribunal.

02-15-2012, 12:07 PM	#9
Srgt. Hulka 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 4,417	Originally Posted by Crusader He probably could have been indicted for war crimes for civilians getting killed or abuse of prisoners and such things. But on the opposite side tha allied leaders probably could have been indicted too for the fire bombings of a number of german citys which mainly struck against civilians. Originally Posted by SloMotion ... don't forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki ... if they'd go after any Axis/Allied leaders for civilian casualties, FDR would be on the hook for dropping those bombs. It was NOT illegal in WWII to wage war on the civilian population of your enemy. It was a part of war, tragic as it may have been, it was a part of war. It was not illegal to wage war on civilians until 1949, after the 4th Geneva Convention. So no, the Allies could not be indicted for war crimes for fire bombing Berlin, Hamburg, Tokyo, and all the other Axis Power cities. And the United States could not be indicted on the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The fact that it was not illegal to wage war on civilian populations during WWII is the reason the war only lasted 4 years. Also, since we dropped "The Bomb" on Japan saved millions of Japanese and American lives. Can you imaging the death toll and how long it would have taken if we had to invade Japan and fight street to street, house to house along the length of the whole country against an enemy that did NOT know the word surrender? Also, with the current Geneva Convention in place, if we had to fight WWII today, the war would last at least 20 years or longer, cost trillions of dollars, and still end up with no winner. (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) And just wait, another World War is coming. It will be another "Crusade," The Christians, or non-Muslims, against the Muslims. It's inevitable. We can all see it on the horizon. I feel for our kids and grandkids for the future we've left them. Fourth Geneva Convention The Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, commonly referred to as the Fourth Geneva Convention* and abbreviated as GCIV, is one of the four* treaties of the Geneva Conventions. It was adopted in August 1949, and defines humanitarian protections for civilians in a war zone, and outlaws the practice of total war. There are currently 194 countries party to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, including this fourth treaty but also including the other three.[1] In 1993, the United Nations Security Council adopted a report from the Secretary-General and a Commission of Experts which concluded that the Geneva Conventions had passed into the body of customary international law, thus making them binding on non-signatories to the Conventions whenever they engage in armed conflicts.[2]
	Last edited by Srgt. Hulka; 02-15-2012 at 12:49 PM..

02-15-2012, 12:24 PM	#10
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by SloMotion ... don't forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki ... if they'd go after any Axis/Allied leaders for civilian casualties, FDR would be on the hook for dropping those bombs. Pretty sure that was Truman, but either way. When you weigh the cost of American lives versus the cost of the enemy's lives, civilian or otherwise, you have what I believe to be all the justification you need, and at the end of the day we TOLD them to shut it down or else we'd wipe them out, one city at a time. It took two before they believed us I guess.