The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer

rezburna · 09-25-2017, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Country music, at its essence, is an Irish construct. I'm so sorry you have been misinformed.

Can you elaborate on when these things happen?

When have you observed me to see black or American when it's convenient?

I fail to see the influence of Africa. I do see the influence of black people - Americans then and now.

Blues music is American. Where is the african influence? In what aspect of the music? The chord structure. The lyrics? Or perhaps suffering isn't uniquely 'African' after all?

Jazz music is a construct of many forms of music, some black, some not, but you disagree. To you it's all rooted in black people which defies the truth.

Regardless, the chord structure isn't black. They didn't invent it. That'd be European, but I fear this very important point about the 'roots' of these genres will be completely lost on you, right?

Jazz is characterized by swing and blue notes, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation. Jazz has roots in West African cultural and musical expression, and in African-American music traditions including blues and ragtime, as well as European military band music. Although the foundation of jazz is deeply rooted within the black experience of the United States, different cultures have contributed their own experience and styles to the art form as well. Intellectuals around the world have hailed jazz as "one of America's original art forms".

Ferris, Jean (1993) America's Musical Landscape. Brown and Benchmark. ISBN 0697125165. pp. 228, 233

Starr, Larry, and Christopher Waterman. "Popular Jazz and Swing: America's Original Art Form." IIP Digital. Oxford University Press, 26 July 2008.

Is that enough acknowledgement of this "vast", European influence? Make note of "West Afrikan" as well.

saintfan · 09-25-2017, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Jazz is characterized by swing and blue notes, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation. Jazz has roots in West African cultural and musical expression, and in African-American music traditions including blues and ragtime, as well as European military band music. Although the foundation of jazz is deeply rooted within the black experience of the United States, different cultures have contributed their own experience and styles to the art form as well. Intellectuals around the world have hailed jazz as "one of America's original art forms".

Ferris, Jean (1993) America's Musical Landscape. Brown and Benchmark. ISBN 0697125165. pp. 228, 233

Starr, Larry, and Christopher Waterman. "Popular Jazz and Swing: America's Original Art Form." IIP Digital. Oxford University Press, 26 July 2008.

Is that enough acknowledgement of this "vast", European influence?

Wait wait. This writer appears to agree with me, pretty much:

Jazz has roots in West African cultural and musical expression, and in African-American music traditions including blues and ragtime, as well as European military band music.

I don't disagree with a single word. Thank you for posting. It isn't uniquely black as you suggested many posts ago. White people didn't steal it as you so desperately want to believe. Dude I'm so sorry for you but it just isn't true.

Three chords and the truth. That was a white creation. Did black people steal it?

Of course not. That's absurd. You get it yet?

See, the key of "G" is, well, G, C, then D. The seventh which leads from the 1 to the 3, the 'blue' note...White people invented that Sir.

But it is completely preposterous to suggest that black people singing the blues stole white culture. I'm sorry if you can't get wrapped around my point. I truly do appreciate your passion for music. We share that. It is neither black nor white. It's human. I wish you could see that.

rezburna · 09-25-2017, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Wait wait. This writer appears to agree with me, pretty much:

I don't disagree with a single word. Thank you for posting. It isn't uniquely black as you suggested many posts ago. White people didn't steal it as you so desperately want to believe. Dude I'm so sorry for you but it just isn't true.

Three chords and the truth. That was a white creation. Did black people steal it?

Of course not. That's absurd. You get it yet?

See, the key of "G" is, well, G, C, then D. The seventh which leads from the 1 to the 3, the 'blue' note...White people invented that Sir.

But it is completely preposterous to suggest that black people singing the blues stole white culture. I'm sorry if you can't get wrapped around my point. I truly do appreciate your passion for music. We share that. It is neither black nor white. It's human. I wish you could see that.

The author states jazz is deeply rooted in the Black experience. Not to mention, you can't invent a key. A key exists whether you're capable of producing it or not. There's this habit of believing you invented and discovered things that other people already knew about. There's no proof that Europeans were the first to string those cords together. Did it have influence on Blacks? Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the art form was born out of the Black experience as the author said. Those Europeans who "invented" the key didn't in turn start making blues or jazz for Black people to mimic.

saintfan · 09-25-2017, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

The author states jazz is deeply rooted in the Black experience. And you can't invent a key. A key exists whether you're capable of producing it or not. There's no proof that Europeans were the first to string those cords together. Did it have influence on Blacks? Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the art form was born out of the Black experience as the author said.

You think the western musical structure came from Africa?

Were they playing guitars over there in the bush? The guitar is 4000 years old. How far back must we go before you understand? Do you even want to understand?

rezburna · 09-25-2017, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

You think the western musical structure came from Africa?

Were they playing guitars over there in the bush? The guitar is 4000 years old. How far back must we go before you understand? Do you even want to understand?

That 4000 year old guitar is likely Afrikan in origin. Egyptian to be specific.

saintfan · 09-25-2017, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

That 4000 year old guitar is likely Afrikan in origin. Egyptian to be specific.

Which establishes what, exactly? Out of Africa, right? The entire planet is a black creation stolen by white men?

Go to sleep man.

rezburna · 09-25-2017, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Which establishes what, exactly? Out of Africa, right? The entire planet is a black creation stolen by white men?

Go to sleep man.

You implied guitars weren't being used on the continent. I simply stated otherwise. You said it's a 4,000 year old instrument. As of right now that's true. The oldest version was found in Afrika...

I don't fall for the semantics.

Beastmode · 09-26-2017, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

That 4000 year old guitar is likely Afrikan in origin. Egyptian to be specific.

It's Syrian. Not African but I'm sure people living in Africa had their own instruments. That example is the oldest noted example of music ever found. These people had real notes and a system for recording music on tablets and the music is very sophisticated from what they translated, not just some beating on drums stuff. I know the Chinese invented gunpowder and the compass but as far as the African continent, not much was developed there for some reason for a very long time.

rezburna · 09-26-2017, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

It's Syrian. Not African but I'm sure people living in Africa had their own instruments. That example is the oldest noted example of music ever found. These people had real notes and a system for recording music on tablets and the music is very sophisticated from what they translated, not just some beating on drums stuff. I know the Chinese invented gunpowder and the compass but as far as the African continent, not much was developed there for some reason for a very long time.

The notion that there wasn't much developed on the Afrikan continent is sickeningly far from the truth:

Architecture and Engineering

The African empire of Egypt developed a vast array of diverse structures and great architectural monuments along the Nile, among the largest and most famous of which are the Great Pyramid of Giza and the Great Sphinx of Giza. Later, in the 12th century there were hundreds of great cities in Zimbabwe and Mozambique made of massive stone complexes and huge castlelike compounds. In the 13th century, the empire of Mali boasted impressive cities, including Timbuktu, with grand palaces, mosques and universities.

Speech

Using estimates supported by genetic, archaeological, palaeontological and other evidence suggests that language probably emerged somewhere in sub-Saharan Africa during the Middle Stone Age, hence the first words by humans were spoken by Africans.

Mathematics

The invention of mathematics is placed firmly in African prehistory. The oldest known possibly mathematical object is the Lebombo bone, which was discovered in the Lebombo Mountains of Swaziland and dated to approximately 35,000 B.C. Many of the math concepts that are learned in school today were also developed in Africa. Over 35,000 years ago, Ancient Egyptians scripted textbooks about math that included division and multiplication of fractions and geometric formulas to calculate the area and volume of shapes.

Medicine

Many treatments used today in modern medicine were first employed in Africa centuries ago. The earliest known surgery was performed in Egypt around 2750 B.C. Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean sections, anesthesia and tissue cauterization.

Mining of Minerals

The oldest known mine on archaeological record is the “Lion Cave” in Swaziland, which radiocarbon dating shows to be about 43,000 years old. The ancient Egyptians mined a mineral called malachite. While the gold minds of Nubia were among the largest and most extensive in the world.

Metallurgy and Tools

Many advances in metallurgy and tool-making were made across the entirety of ancient Africa. These include steam engines, metal chisels and saws, copper and iron tools and weapons, nails, glue, carbon steel and bronze weapons and art. In places like Tanzania, Rwanda and Uganda, the advances in metallurgy and tool-making surpassed those in Europe.

Navigation

Evidence suggests that ancient Africans sailed to South America and Asia hundreds of years before the Europeans, debunking the propaganda that Europeans were the first to sail to the Americas. Many ancient societies in Africa built different types of boats, from small vessels to large ships that could carry up to 80 tons.

Law and Religion

Evidence shows that the ancient Ethiopians were the first to honor their gods, offer sacrifices and organize other religious customs for people to honor the divine as well as the first country to have established law.

Astronomy

Several ancient African cultures birthed discoveries in astronomy. Many of these are foundations on which we still rely, and some were so advanced that their mode of discovery still cannot be understood. The Dogon people of Mali amassed a wealth of detailed astronomical observations. They knew of Saturn’s rings, Jupiter’s moons, the spiral structure of the Milky Way and the orbit of the Sirius star system.

Art

The oldest art objects in the world — a series of tiny, drilled snail shells about 75,000 years old — were discovered in a South African cave.

Just because people of the continent did use what they developed to conquer the known world and write history from their perspective doesn't mean they were sitting on their thumbs for thousands of years.

Beastmode · 09-25-2017, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

The author states jazz is deeply rooted in the Black experience. Not to mention, you can't invent a key. A key exists whether you're capable of producing it or not. There's this habit of believing you invented and discovered things that other people already knew about. There's no proof that Europeans were the first to string those cords together. Did it have influence on Blacks? Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the art form was born out of the Black experience as the author said. Those Europeans who "invented" the key didn't in turn start making blues or jazz.

Oldest record of music from 1400 BC. Kinda cool but way way before US slaves. Stringed noted.

YouTube (Short URL)

09-25-2017, 08:01 PM	#1
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by saintfan Country music, at its essence, is an Irish construct. I'm so sorry you have been misinformed. Can you elaborate on when these things happen? When have you observed me to see black or American when it's convenient? I fail to see the influence of Africa. I do see the influence of black people - Americans then and now. Blues music is American. Where is the african influence? In what aspect of the music? The chord structure. The lyrics? Or perhaps suffering isn't uniquely 'African' after all? Jazz music is a construct of many forms of music, some black, some not, but you disagree. To you it's all rooted in black people which defies the truth. Regardless, the chord structure isn't black. They didn't invent it. That'd be European, but I fear this very important point about the 'roots' of these genres will be completely lost on you, right? Jazz is characterized by swing and blue notes, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation. Jazz has roots in West African cultural and musical expression, and in African-American music traditions including blues and ragtime, as well as European military band music. Although the foundation of jazz is deeply rooted within the black experience of the United States, different cultures have contributed their own experience and styles to the art form as well. Intellectuals around the world have hailed jazz as "one of America's original art forms". Ferris, Jean (1993) America's Musical Landscape. Brown and Benchmark. ISBN 0697125165. pp. 228, 233 Starr, Larry, and Christopher Waterman. "Popular Jazz and Swing: America's Original Art Form." IIP Digital. Oxford University Press, 26 July 2008. Is that enough acknowledgement of this "vast", European influence? Make note of "West Afrikan" as well.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

09-25-2017, 08:10 PM	#2
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by rezburna Jazz is characterized by swing and blue notes, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation. Jazz has roots in West African cultural and musical expression, and in African-American music traditions including blues and ragtime, as well as European military band music. Although the foundation of jazz is deeply rooted within the black experience of the United States, different cultures have contributed their own experience and styles to the art form as well. Intellectuals around the world have hailed jazz as "one of America's original art forms". Ferris, Jean (1993) America's Musical Landscape. Brown and Benchmark. ISBN 0697125165. pp. 228, 233 Starr, Larry, and Christopher Waterman. "Popular Jazz and Swing: America's Original Art Form." IIP Digital. Oxford University Press, 26 July 2008. Is that enough acknowledgement of this "vast", European influence? Wait wait. This writer appears to agree with me, pretty much: Jazz has roots in West African cultural and musical expression, and in African-American music traditions including blues and ragtime, as well as European military band music. I don't disagree with a single word. Thank you for posting. It isn't uniquely black as you suggested many posts ago. White people didn't steal it as you so desperately want to believe. Dude I'm so sorry for you but it just isn't true. Three chords and the truth. That was a white creation. Did black people steal it? Of course not. That's absurd. You get it yet? See, the key of "G" is, well, G, C, then D. The seventh which leads from the 1 to the 3, the 'blue' note...White people invented that Sir. But it is completely preposterous to suggest that black people singing the blues stole white culture. I'm sorry if you can't get wrapped around my point. I truly do appreciate your passion for music. We share that. It is neither black nor white. It's human. I wish you could see that.
	C'mon Man...

09-25-2017, 08:15 PM	#3
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by saintfan Wait wait. This writer appears to agree with me, pretty much: I don't disagree with a single word. Thank you for posting. It isn't uniquely black as you suggested many posts ago. White people didn't steal it as you so desperately want to believe. Dude I'm so sorry for you but it just isn't true. Three chords and the truth. That was a white creation. Did black people steal it? Of course not. That's absurd. You get it yet? See, the key of "G" is, well, G, C, then D. The seventh which leads from the 1 to the 3, the 'blue' note...White people invented that Sir. But it is completely preposterous to suggest that black people singing the blues stole white culture. I'm sorry if you can't get wrapped around my point. I truly do appreciate your passion for music. We share that. It is neither black nor white. It's human. I wish you could see that. The author states jazz is deeply rooted in the Black experience. Not to mention, you can't invent a key. A key exists whether you're capable of producing it or not. There's this habit of believing you invented and discovered things that other people already knew about. There's no proof that Europeans were the first to string those cords together. Did it have influence on Blacks? Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the art form was born out of the Black experience as the author said. Those Europeans who "invented" the key didn't in turn start making blues or jazz for Black people to mimic.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

09-25-2017, 08:18 PM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by rezburna The author states jazz is deeply rooted in the Black experience. And you can't invent a key. A key exists whether you're capable of producing it or not. There's no proof that Europeans were the first to string those cords together. Did it have influence on Blacks? Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the art form was born out of the Black experience as the author said. You think the western musical structure came from Africa? Were they playing guitars over there in the bush? The guitar is 4000 years old. How far back must we go before you understand? Do you even want to understand?

09-25-2017, 08:22 PM	#5
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by saintfan You think the western musical structure came from Africa? Were they playing guitars over there in the bush? The guitar is 4000 years old. How far back must we go before you understand? Do you even want to understand? That 4000 year old guitar is likely Afrikan in origin. Egyptian to be specific.

09-25-2017, 08:24 PM	#6
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by rezburna That 4000 year old guitar is likely Afrikan in origin. Egyptian to be specific. Which establishes what, exactly? Out of Africa, right? The entire planet is a black creation stolen by white men? Go to sleep man.

09-25-2017, 08:27 PM	#7
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by saintfan Which establishes what, exactly? Out of Africa, right? The entire planet is a black creation stolen by white men? Go to sleep man. You implied guitars weren't being used on the continent. I simply stated otherwise. You said it's a 4,000 year old instrument. As of right now that's true. The oldest version was found in Afrika... I don't fall for the semantics.

09-26-2017, 12:06 AM	#8
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by rezburna That 4000 year old guitar is likely Afrikan in origin. Egyptian to be specific. It's Syrian. Not African but I'm sure people living in Africa had their own instruments. That example is the oldest noted example of music ever found. These people had real notes and a system for recording music on tablets and the music is very sophisticated from what they translated, not just some beating on drums stuff. I know the Chinese invented gunpowder and the compass but as far as the African continent, not much was developed there for some reason for a very long time.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

09-26-2017, 09:08 AM	#9
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer Originally Posted by Beastmode It's Syrian. Not African but I'm sure people living in Africa had their own instruments. That example is the oldest noted example of music ever found. These people had real notes and a system for recording music on tablets and the music is very sophisticated from what they translated, not just some beating on drums stuff. I know the Chinese invented gunpowder and the compass but as far as the African continent, not much was developed there for some reason for a very long time. The notion that there wasn't much developed on the Afrikan continent is sickeningly far from the truth: Architecture and Engineering The African empire of Egypt developed a vast array of diverse structures and great architectural monuments along the Nile, among the largest and most famous of which are the Great Pyramid of Giza and the Great Sphinx of Giza. Later, in the 12th century there were hundreds of great cities in Zimbabwe and Mozambique made of massive stone complexes and huge castlelike compounds. In the 13th century, the empire of Mali boasted impressive cities, including Timbuktu, with grand palaces, mosques and universities. Speech Using estimates supported by genetic, archaeological, palaeontological and other evidence suggests that language probably emerged somewhere in sub-Saharan Africa during the Middle Stone Age, hence the first words by humans were spoken by Africans. Mathematics The invention of mathematics is placed firmly in African prehistory. The oldest known possibly mathematical object is the Lebombo bone, which was discovered in the Lebombo Mountains of Swaziland and dated to approximately 35,000 B.C. Many of the math concepts that are learned in school today were also developed in Africa. Over 35,000 years ago, Ancient Egyptians scripted textbooks about math that included division and multiplication of fractions and geometric formulas to calculate the area and volume of shapes. Medicine Many treatments used today in modern medicine were first employed in Africa centuries ago. The earliest known surgery was performed in Egypt around 2750 B.C. Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean sections, anesthesia and tissue cauterization. Mining of Minerals The oldest known mine on archaeological record is the “Lion Cave” in Swaziland, which radiocarbon dating shows to be about 43,000 years old. The ancient Egyptians mined a mineral called malachite. While the gold minds of Nubia were among the largest and most extensive in the world. Metallurgy and Tools Many advances in metallurgy and tool-making were made across the entirety of ancient Africa. These include steam engines, metal chisels and saws, copper and iron tools and weapons, nails, glue, carbon steel and bronze weapons and art. In places like Tanzania, Rwanda and Uganda, the advances in metallurgy and tool-making surpassed those in Europe. Navigation Evidence suggests that ancient Africans sailed to South America and Asia hundreds of years before the Europeans, debunking the propaganda that Europeans were the first to sail to the Americas. Many ancient societies in Africa built different types of boats, from small vessels to large ships that could carry up to 80 tons. Law and Religion Evidence shows that the ancient Ethiopians were the first to honor their gods, offer sacrifices and organize other religious customs for people to honor the divine as well as the first country to have established law. Astronomy Several ancient African cultures birthed discoveries in astronomy. Many of these are foundations on which we still rely, and some were so advanced that their mode of discovery still cannot be understood. The Dogon people of Mali amassed a wealth of detailed astronomical observations. They knew of Saturn’s rings, Jupiter’s moons, the spiral structure of the Milky Way and the orbit of the Sirius star system. Art The oldest art objects in the world — a series of tiny, drilled snail shells about 75,000 years old — were discovered in a South African cave. Just because people of the continent did use what they developed to conquer the known world and write history from their perspective doesn't mean they were sitting on their thumbs for thousands of years. Crusader likes this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael