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this is a discussion within the NOLA Community Forum; Sorry to burst your bubble, but when is ESPN the local news? Coach of the Year was Mike D'Antoni, he is in Phoenix, so I guess somehow him saying Duncan is the best player in the game can be seen ...

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Old 06-08-2005, 09:16 AM   #11
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but when is ESPN the local news? Coach of the Year was Mike D'Antoni, he is in Phoenix, so I guess somehow him saying Duncan is the best player in the game can be seen as local, somehow. And the MVP was on his team, and he still praised Duncan. And the more you speak on this, the less I see you know about basketball. Michael Jordan played on the Dream Team with the best players EVER. To even compare that Dream Team to what Duncan had shows an incredible lack of basketball knowledge. How many hall of famers, outside of Duncan, or coming out of last year's dream team definitely? How many hall of famers are coming off the first dream team? Get the picture? So to recap, all you gotta do is read or watch or surf ESPN, which isn't local to San Antonio in case you were unaware, or listen to the Coach of the Year, who hails from Phoenix, which isn't in TX in case you were unaware so also not local, to see who is the best player on the planet. Now if somehow you can be the best player on the planet and not be dominant, please explain that. And if you need more than 2 league MVPs in a row and two finals MVPs in the last 7 years to respect a guy, then there really is NOONE in basketball you should respect at all outside of Shaq and Kobe, but wait, neither of them has two LEAGUE MVPs. And KObe does not have TWO FINALS MVPs. So basically, the only guy in the league you should respect is Shaq. So all that other nonsense you were talking about Ben Wallace's defensive MVP is pure crap, cause for you, in order to gain respect, you must dominate the finals three years OR MORE in a row. Glad to know where you stand. So I should never hear of you giving anyone in the current NBA respect outside of Shaq. Unless it is a retired Jordan. Correct? Or do you wanna change your mind? Or simply admit you ahve no idea what you are saying, and are just hating on Duncan.
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Old 06-08-2005, 12:25 PM   #12
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Wow, speak of the devil. the "local media" knows as ESPN had one of its columnists write an article on the finals. Let's see what he had to say about duncan:

Some other thoughts …

• Interesting quote from Suns coach Mike D'Antoni this week: "[Tim Duncan] is the ultimate winner, and that's why they're so good … I hate saying it, but he's the best player in the game."

Translation: Duncan is so good, I just threw my 2005 MVP under the bus.

And since Duncan is in his absolute prime right now (eighth season, 29 years old), the whole "Is he the greatest power forward of all-time?" debate has been one of the running subplots of the playoffs. On "Pardon the Interruption" this week, both Kornheiser and Wilbon agreed that he was headed that way but hadn't earned the title yet. Which I find patently absurd, of course. Why couldn't you make the claim? What other power forward was the best guy on a team that won three titles in his first eight seasons? Who was a more complete player? And most important, what would you change about him?

Maybe he isn't as unstoppable in the low-post as Hakeem; maybe he isn't the defender that McHale was; maybe he isn't as good a passer as Walton; maybe he doesn't rebound like Moses; maybe he isn't as explosive as Barkley was; maybe he doesn't put up big numbers quite as consistently as the Mailman did. But he's in the general ballpark with each of those guys in their best categories, isn't he? Has any big man ever brought more to the table?

Comparing him to the other candidates at power forward ...

Karl Malone – Fifty years from now, people will examine his stats and say, "Wait a second, this guy was one of the five best basketball players ever!" And that's why you shouldn't totally trust statistics. There was no stat that could fully capture the Karl Malone "Uh-oh, I'm taking another dump in a big playoff game" Face.

Gettin in shape wasn't on Sir Charles' to do list in Philly.
Charles Barkley – His ceiling may have been higher than anyone else's, but Barkley's career actually makes me a little angry. You watch those old Suns games from the '93 season and it's like, "Why the heck did it take him nine years to get in phenomenal shape?" And unlike Malone, his playoff stats were always better than his regular season stats – for instance, in the '86 playoffs (his second season), he averaged a 26-15 in 12 games. Remarkable. I think we will see 20 more Karl Malones before we see another 6-foot-4 power forward who could dominate games like that. Still, he just wasn't as consistent as Duncan, although he is infinitely more fun to hang out with.

Kevin McHale – We'll never know how good he could have been because he broke his foot during the '87 season (when he made first-team All-NBA and shot 60 percent from the field), then aggravated the injury beyond repair during the playoffs. He was never the same after that. But he was the best low-post player in the history of the position, as well as the best defender (everyone forgets this now, but he has to be the only guy who ever guarded Kareem and Andrew Toney within a two-month span).

Elvin Hayes – A little before my time, but everyone seems to agree that he made Karl Malone look clutch by comparison.

Bob Pettit – Sorry, I can't vote for anyone who played during an era when players actually smoked butts at halftime.

My vote still goes to Duncan. Although Amare Stoudemire might end up blowing everyone else away before everything's said and done. Or, as Detroit reader Mike Rooney points out, "If there's an NBA lockout, there's a chance that Amare Stoudemire could put on 150 pounds like Shawn Kemp did. Shouldn't that be enough to get the sides to agree?"

• This is worth rehashing one more time: The center spot was San Antonio's Achilles' heel dating back to David Robinson's retirement and the indefensible Rasho Nesterovic signing, the only real mistake of the R.C. Buford Era (yes, that's the Spurs GM, and yes, that's a stage name). So when they hijacked Nazr Mohammed from the Knicks in February – one of those crazily one-sided trades that actually made me gasp out loud when it happened (the trading equivalent of seeing a Lindsay Lohan photo from the past six weeks) – they didn't just acquire a half-decent center who could give them 25 minutes a night, they were knocking their only weak link (Rasho) out of their playoff rotation. In 16 playoff games, Rasho hasn't played a total of 100 minutes yet.

So in a way, the Mohammed trade was the 2005 equivalent of the Rasheed Wallace trade; maybe it didn't have the same cachet, but it was just as crucial to the overall success of the team. You can't win a championship with Rasho playing 25 minutes a game … but you can win a championship with Mohammed playing 25 minutes a game. In other words, there isn't a day that goes by that R.C. Buford isn't thinking, "Thank God I called Isiah that day just to offer that stupid trade that I never thought he would do."

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Old 06-10-2005, 11:01 AM   #13
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Hey BooBird, where ya at? I have another "local" media story for you about Duncan.

ESPN.com's Greatest Power Forwards

Editor's note: With Tim Duncan leading the Spurs back to the NBA Finals for the third time in seven years, we decided it was time to determine ESPN.com's greatest all-time power forward. This ranking was compiled using top 10 lists from a panel of ESPN.com NBA experts. The voters were: Greg Anthony (GA), Chris Broussard (CB), Ric Bucher (RB), John Hollinger (JH), Scoop Jackson (SJ), Brian James (BJ), Tim Legler (TL), Eric Neel (EN), Jack Ramsay (JR), Marc Stein (MS), Tom Tolbert (TT).
Players received 10 points for a first-place vote, nine points for second and so on down to one point for a 10th-place vote. If you don't like our rankings, click here to make your own.

Top 10 Power Forwards
Player/Voter GA CB RB JH SJ BJ TL EN JR MS TT Total
1. Duncan 10 10 10 8 8 9 9 9 8 10 10 101
2. Malone 9 9 6 9 10 10 10 8 10 9 8 98

3. Barkley 5 8 5 6 9 4 8 7 2 8 9 71
4. McHale 4 4 9 3 7 8 5 6 6 7 6 65

5. Pettit 8 5 7 10 6 6 4 5 9 3 -- 63
6. Garnett -- 7 4 7 1 7 6 10 7 4 -- 53

7. Hayes 6 6 8 -- 5 3 7 1 -- 6 7 49

8. Debusschere 7 -- -- -- 3 5 2 -- -- -- -- 17

9. B. Williams -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 -- 4 2 4 13

10. Nowitzki -- 2 -- 4 -- -- -- -- -- 5 -- 11
Others receiving votes (points): Amare Stoudemire (9), Chris Webber (9), Dennis Rodman (7), Dolph Schayes (7), Horace Grant (5), Ben Wallace (4), Spencer Haywood (3), Luke Jackson (3), Gus Johnson (3), Rasheed Wallace (3), Shawn Kemp (2), Bob McAdoo (2), George McGinnis (2), Charles Oakley (2), Connie Hawkins (1), Jerry Lucas (1), Vern Mikkelson (1)


1. Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs, 1998-present
TD dominates at both ends of the floor. The Big Fundamental has two NBA championships with San Antonio in 1999 and 2003 (more than Malone, Barkley and Pettit combined). Stats and awards don't begin to tell the Tim Duncan story, but here are a few. MVP awards in 2002 and 2003, an all-league defender, and a 22.8 points per game average in his first seven seasons.

2. Karl Malone – Utah Jazz, L.A. Lakers 1986-2004
The Mailman is simply the best low-post scoring power forward ever. And he was a lethal mid-range shooter. The 11-time NBA first-team player is second all-time in NBA scoring. The guys scored 36,928 points. That's a lot of picks and rolls and post ups. His 25.0 career average is another reason why this two-time MVP was voted onto the NBA's Top 50 squad.

3. Charles Barkley – Philadelphia 76ers,
Phoenix Suns, Houston Rockets 1985-2000
At less than 6-foot-5, Barkley is, inch for inch, arguably the most productive player ever. This top 50 player of all-time was a relentless scorer and one of the strongest in the low post. He was a first or second NBA teamer for 10 seasons. Over 16 seasons, Barkley averaged 22.1 points.

4. Kevin McHale – Boston Celtics 1981-1993
Greatest post moves ever at the four spot. One-third of the best frontline of all time. McHale not only was voted as one of the NBA's Top 50, but won three championships with the Celtics in 1981, '84, and '86. One of the best sixth men ever to play the game. McHale spent his entire career with Boston averaging 17.9 points off the bench.

5. Bob Pettit – Milwaukee/St. Louis Hawks 1955-1965
Defined power-forward position. Before him there were just forwards. Pettit's Hawks topped the Celtics with Bob Cousy and Bill Russell in the NBA Finals in 1958. This top 50 player off all-time averaged 26.4 points over his career. This is quite a feat considering the era in which he played.

6. Kevin Garnett – Minnesota T-wolves 1996-present
Garnett plays the right way. He brings it every night. The MVP in 2004, Garnett is a four-time All-NBA defensive team member and has made the first or second All-NBA time five times. K-G has averaged 20.2 points and 11.1 rebounds over his career, all with the T-wolves.

7. Elvin Hayes – San Diego/Houston Rockets, Baltimore/Capital/Washington Bullets 1969-1984
The Big E was an offensive machine. He could score from anywhere plus rebound and defend. Hayes voted one of the top 50 players of all-time. Won a championship with Washington in 1978 and is its all-time leader in points and blocked shots.

8. Dave DeBusschere – Detroit Pistons,
New York Knicks 1963-1974
One of the links to two championship teams in New York in 1970 and 1973. DeBusschere was a strong, smart forward who could shoot with the best of them. He was voted as one of the top 50 players of all time.

9. Buck Williams – New Jersey Nets, Portland Trail Blazers, New York Knicks 1982-1998
Buck played 17 seasons with three teams and was one of the toughest, hard-nosed leaders of his era. Like Garnett, he came to play every single night. Buck is the all-time leading scorer and rebounder in New Jersey Nets history and helped the Blazers get to the Finals in 1990.

10. Dirk Nowitzki – Dallas Mavericks 1999-Present
No power forward dead or alive could keep him from dropping 20. Maybe Rodman. Best shooting big man ever … and he can drive and dunk it like a swinger. Another revolutionary, like Malone.
Man, tim can't get no respect outside of San Antonio huh BooBird? Don't run and hide now. Defend your point. you wanted to slam my boy, what do you have to say?
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