I hope we don't trade up.

AsylumGuido · 04-29-2021, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

One man's delusion is another's clear thinking.

Boston Saint · 04-29-2021, 06:57 PM

I had a dream about the Ricky Williams trade last night ! 🥺

SaintGnome · 04-29-2021, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Frankly, I'm disgusted at your dismissiveness of Winston as a franchise QB. Winston has more TDs and only 2 less wins than Brees did when he arrived here in 2006. One was lauded as the savior of the franchise, which he turned out to be. The other dismissed as a massive failure. Makes no sense to me.

Winston may not be a HOF QB like Brees or Brady. But I think it's dumb to dismiss as a potential franchise a QB that has pulled off game winning drives and 4th quarter comebacks. A QB that threw for 5000+ yards and 33 TDs in his last full season. Let's not forget that Tampa was a mess 12 games into last season until Brady essentially took the reigns as GM and offensive coordinator and turned the ship around. But he brought 20 years of championship experience and the best coaching in the league into that mix. Jameis up until now has been mired in a mess of changing coaches and schemes with no rhyme or reason.

SFIAH

OK, I'm surprised you are surprised people are doubtful. Winston was drafted #1 over all then cast aside by a coach deemed the QB whisperer after just one season, after all those yards, and all those TD's. After being run out of town the best deal he got was a one year, 1 million $ deal with us. We did not sign him immediately this year so the rest of the league had their chances to make him a substantially bigger/longer deal than our 1 YEAR deal that we signed him on, but no one stepped up and did it. Not a lot of confidence by NFL execs, why should normal fans do as well?
Look, after initially hating his signing I myself find myself hopeful and optimistic Sean can work his magic, but I get the concern, and I can understand the doubt.

BakoSaint · 04-29-2021, 07:42 PM

Another way people might want to think of this is that next years first round pick is our insurance policy. Brees is gone, and guys like Winston and Hill are high risk high reward. We have major questions at CB, WR, TE, and we have some significant losses at LB, DL. Our oline has some key players with checkered injury histories. If we trade up for the next Maholmes then fine. But if we trade up for a rookie corner or online when we are not just one piece away, that one player cannot fix all our question marks, and with all those question marks, nobody knows what 2021 brings. With all our losses and salary cap issues, anyone who thinks that subtracting Brees, Sanders, Jenkins, Alexander, Hendrickson, etc gets us a Super Bowl this season if we add Surtain or Sewell is very very optimistic. On the other hand this could easily prove to be a rebuilding years. Winston could throw 30 INTs. Goodell could come down hard on Lattimore and opposing QBs average 300 yards against us. This is why its so important to keep our 2022 1st round pick. Anyone who is realistic knows 2021 is going to be unpredictable. Selling our insurance policy this year, of all years, to add anyone but a franchise QB, is dumb.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-29-2021, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by SaintGnome

OK, I'm surprised you are surprised people are doubtful. Winston was drafted #1 over all then cast aside by a coach deemed the QB whisperer after just one season, after all those yards, and all those TD's. After being run out of town the best deal he got was a one year, 1 million $ deal with us. We did not sign him immediately this year so the rest of the league had their chances to make him a substantially bigger/longer deal than our 1 YEAR deal that we signed him on, but no one stepped up and did it. Not a lot of confidence by NFL execs, why should normal fans do as well?
Look, after initially hating his signing I myself find myself hopeful and optimistic Sean can work his magic, but I get the concern, and I can understand the doubt.

Bruce Ariens foisted off the worst career years on the likes of Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Ben Rothlisburger, and even Brady until the last quarter of last season. The maturity that Winston has shown in taking a year to learn under Brees and to bet on himself with the Saints shows growth. It's clear that CSP deliberately kept Winston under wraps last year giving minimal new tape to evaluate with for the rest of the league. At the same time he got to see the dude in practice every day for a year.

My understanding is that the Bears offered him more money and years and he declined the offer. So, it's not like there was no interest.

It's OK to be skeptical. This is a new QB coming into a system that has run like clockwork for 15 years. But that's not what's happening here. It's a dismissive refusal to acknowledge that Winston could be a productive capable franchise QB in CSP's system. QBs on bad franchises always seem to get a bad rap. Look at Tannehill in Miami as an example. Put in a better system became a much more productive QB.

CSP, Loomis, and Ireland have built a consistent winning franchise. I'd rather trust their judgement on the draft and the QB situation than random internet dudes who seem to have an axe to grind.

SFIAH

The Dude · 04-29-2021, 07:58 PM

We’ve traded up 19 times since 2006, back once. Wouldn’t get my hopes up. I think If a corner they like falls they will do whatever they can to get him.

AsylumGuido · 04-29-2021, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

We’ve traded up 19 times since 2006, back once. Wouldn’t get my hopes up. I think If a corner they like falls they will do whatever they can to get him.

Trading back isn't logical.

04-29-2021, 06:22 PM	#41
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: I hope we don't trade up. Originally Posted by jeanpierre One man's delusion is another's clear thinking.

04-29-2021, 06:57 PM	#42
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: I hope we don't trade up. I had a dream about the Ricky Williams trade last night ! 🥺

04-29-2021, 07:36 PM	#43
SaintGnome 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Bradenton,FL Posts: 642	Re: I hope we don't trade up. Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Frankly, I'm disgusted at your dismissiveness of Winston as a franchise QB. Winston has more TDs and only 2 less wins than Brees did when he arrived here in 2006. One was lauded as the savior of the franchise, which he turned out to be. The other dismissed as a massive failure. Makes no sense to me. Winston may not be a HOF QB like Brees or Brady. But I think it's dumb to dismiss as a potential franchise a QB that has pulled off game winning drives and 4th quarter comebacks. A QB that threw for 5000+ yards and 33 TDs in his last full season. Let's not forget that Tampa was a mess 12 games into last season until Brady essentially took the reigns as GM and offensive coordinator and turned the ship around. But he brought 20 years of championship experience and the best coaching in the league into that mix. Jameis up until now has been mired in a mess of changing coaches and schemes with no rhyme or reason. SFIAH OK, I'm surprised you are surprised people are doubtful. Winston was drafted #1 over all then cast aside by a coach deemed the QB whisperer after just one season, after all those yards, and all those TD's. After being run out of town the best deal he got was a one year, 1 million $ deal with us. We did not sign him immediately this year so the rest of the league had their chances to make him a substantially bigger/longer deal than our 1 YEAR deal that we signed him on, but no one stepped up and did it. Not a lot of confidence by NFL execs, why should normal fans do as well? Look, after initially hating his signing I myself find myself hopeful and optimistic Sean can work his magic, but I get the concern, and I can understand the doubt.

04-29-2021, 07:42 PM	#44
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,173	Re: I hope we don't trade up. Another way people might want to think of this is that next years first round pick is our insurance policy. Brees is gone, and guys like Winston and Hill are high risk high reward. We have major questions at CB, WR, TE, and we have some significant losses at LB, DL. Our oline has some key players with checkered injury histories. If we trade up for the next Maholmes then fine. But if we trade up for a rookie corner or online when we are not just one piece away, that one player cannot fix all our question marks, and with all those question marks, nobody knows what 2021 brings. With all our losses and salary cap issues, anyone who thinks that subtracting Brees, Sanders, Jenkins, Alexander, Hendrickson, etc gets us a Super Bowl this season if we add Surtain or Sewell is very very optimistic. On the other hand this could easily prove to be a rebuilding years. Winston could throw 30 INTs. Goodell could come down hard on Lattimore and opposing QBs average 300 yards against us. This is why its so important to keep our 2022 1st round pick. Anyone who is realistic knows 2021 is going to be unpredictable. Selling our insurance policy this year, of all years, to add anyone but a franchise QB, is dumb.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,173

04-29-2021, 07:55 PM	#45
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Re: I hope we don't trade up. Originally Posted by SaintGnome OK, I'm surprised you are surprised people are doubtful. Winston was drafted #1 over all then cast aside by a coach deemed the QB whisperer after just one season, after all those yards, and all those TD's. After being run out of town the best deal he got was a one year, 1 million $ deal with us. We did not sign him immediately this year so the rest of the league had their chances to make him a substantially bigger/longer deal than our 1 YEAR deal that we signed him on, but no one stepped up and did it. Not a lot of confidence by NFL execs, why should normal fans do as well? Look, after initially hating his signing I myself find myself hopeful and optimistic Sean can work his magic, but I get the concern, and I can understand the doubt. Bruce Ariens foisted off the worst career years on the likes of Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Ben Rothlisburger, and even Brady until the last quarter of last season. The maturity that Winston has shown in taking a year to learn under Brees and to bet on himself with the Saints shows growth. It's clear that CSP deliberately kept Winston under wraps last year giving minimal new tape to evaluate with for the rest of the league. At the same time he got to see the dude in practice every day for a year. My understanding is that the Bears offered him more money and years and he declined the offer. So, it's not like there was no interest. It's OK to be skeptical. This is a new QB coming into a system that has run like clockwork for 15 years. But that's not what's happening here. It's a dismissive refusal to acknowledge that Winston could be a productive capable franchise QB in CSP's system. QBs on bad franchises always seem to get a bad rap. Look at Tannehill in Miami as an example. Put in a better system became a much more productive QB. CSP, Loomis, and Ireland have built a consistent winning franchise. I'd rather trust their judgement on the draft and the QB situation than random internet dudes who seem to have an axe to grind. SFIAH AsylumGuido and SaintGnome like this.
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04-29-2021, 07:58 PM	#46
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050	Re: I hope we don't trade up. We’ve traded up 19 times since 2006, back once. Wouldn’t get my hopes up. I think If a corner they like falls they will do whatever they can to get him. AsylumGuido likes this.
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04-29-2021, 08:05 PM	#47
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: I hope we don't trade up. Originally Posted by The Dude We’ve traded up 19 times since 2006, back once. Wouldn’t get my hopes up. I think If a corner they like falls they will do whatever they can to get him. Trading back isn't logical.