Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft

AsylumGuido · 05-02-2021, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

I'm not even sure there was a "draft expert" before Mel K Jr. Now all of the networks have at least 2 or 3. I've never taken his opinions on players seriously, but I do applaud him for having a hustle that has lasted this long.

Basically, he created his own niche.

Yeah. I can agree with that. They have created themselves a lucrative job based upon a fairly useless premise.

Not are their opinions on players sketchy, but even more so are their takes upon how teams draft.

jeanpierre · 05-02-2021, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by neugey

Kiper and most of the experts overemphasize "need" on these draft critiques. But "need" won't mean much once the season starts. One or two key injuries and a team's need will shift radically.

Understand you don't let a much better player pass because of need; however, you also better have a plan for a guy to be able to play to get better...

Depending where you draft him (first rounders should start (start, not necessarily be an AllPro) by Game 1), if a player sits too long, most tend to rot...

So need is definitely a strong factor in selecting a player...

And then you have your prototype, ideal players for certain positions as Mr. Finks would have...

And then when confronted with two players he really wanted - he took the bigger one...

jeanpierre · 05-02-2021, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Yeah. I can agree with that. They have created themselves a lucrative job based upon a fairly useless premise.

Not are their opinions on players sketchy, but even more so are their takes upon how teams draft.

Just because you lack vision, knowledge, insight doesn't mean it's a useless premise...

And if you'd bother to study the history of the game, then you'd already know guys like Kiper, away from the big lights show, have definitely had an impact on the game...

Teams now hire many of the software companies that the scouting services have, if they are not already using those scouting services to augment their own info...

We now have things like SPARQ, The Wunderlic, and a Combine and many more objective evaluation systems because of these services like Kiper...

I Remember when Saints draft meetings were held over a week long golf trip; now with all the attention, despite nepotism, teams are under pressure to draft better...

Some teams do it better consistently, than others; that's why those teams are usually rebounding after only one bad year and are in a Superbowl every five to ten years...

This year was unusual because of the #BlackSwanEvent, shorted or non-existent seasons, and a lack of the usual evaluation processes...

SmashMouth · 05-03-2021, 12:00 AM

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FinSaint · 05-03-2021, 01:59 AM

SP was talking about the need vs BPA in his post draft interview and he basically stated that the philosophy is to get as many good players "in the house" as possible, and that is where coaching takes over.

I think that is a sound approach, because you can easily get caught up in chasing certain positions, and never landing a good player inspite of that.

Draft the BPA and fill positions on the depth chart with UDFAs and more importantly proven vets through the FA.

Then through coaching and game-planning maximize your team's strenghts while minimizing the effect of the areas of weakness.

SmashMouth · 05-03-2021, 05:39 AM

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jeanpierre · 05-03-2021, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

SP was talking about the need vs BPA in his post draft interview and he basically stated that the philosophy is to get as many good players "in the house" as possible, and that is where coaching takes over.

I think that is a sound approach, because you can easily get caught up in chasing certain positions, and never landing a good player inspite of that.

Draft the BPA and fill positions on the depth chart with UDFAs and more importantly proven vets through the FA.

Then through coaching and game-planning maximize your team's strenghts while minimizing the effect of the areas of weakness.

As I mentioned before, have no problem with BPA, so let's consider that approach...

Say a GM has a ProBowl player at a premium position and as the draft unfolds a consensus top prospect at that position becomes available...

That player also happens to be the top overall rated player on the board, the immediate teams behind could also use that player...

Using BPA, the general idea would be you take the younger player, get him into camp to evaluate the rookie...

You quickly confirmed (which really should've been done before selecting him) that he's every bit the goods...

Now you have the opportunity to trade the proven veteran of a premium position to satisfy a need at another position, possibly get draft capital in return...

Only problem is some teams are reluctant to execute the trade component of that process, so the younger player basically becomes stale on the bench...

One of the reasons the 2017 draft class was so successful was because need was factored in with value...

Marshon Lattimore, Ryan Ramczyk, Marcus Williams, Alex Anzalone all started Gm 1, and Kamara was reserved behind Peterson...

But when you fast forward to when Kamara became a need and Payton was forced to play the young player, things really took off...

If you take the BPA, make sure they're gonna have the opportunity to play or create that opportunity and address other roster holes...

darksoul35 · 05-03-2021, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

I'm not even sure there was a "draft expert" before Mel K Jr. Now all of the networks have at least 2 or 3. I've never taken his opinions on players seriously, but I do applaud him for having a hustle that has lasted this long.

Basically, he created his own niche.

Plus the whole Todd Todd Todd thing was funny for about a day or so.

SmashMouth · 05-03-2021, 09:22 AM

Mel Kiper's assessment on our 3rd round pick not so long ago.

Grayson played in a pro style offense. He can play under center. He can go in a three, five or seven-step drop. He can come in and help you,” Kiper said. “He has enough mobility. Losing bothers him. He is a tremendous competitor. I think Grayson’s a second-rounder.

How did that work out?

neugey · 05-03-2021, 09:26 AM

Kiper hyped up every Notre Dame QB except the one I finally like

05-02-2021, 06:52 PM	#11
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft Originally Posted by K Major I'm not even sure there was a "draft expert" before Mel K Jr. Now all of the networks have at least 2 or 3. I've never taken his opinions on players seriously, but I do applaud him for having a hustle that has lasted this long. Basically, he created his own niche. Yeah. I can agree with that. They have created themselves a lucrative job based upon a fairly useless premise. Not are their opinions on players sketchy, but even more so are their takes upon how teams draft.

05-02-2021, 11:43 PM	#12
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft Originally Posted by neugey Kiper and most of the experts overemphasize "need" on these draft critiques. But "need" won't mean much once the season starts. One or two key injuries and a team's need will shift radically. Understand you don't let a much better player pass because of need; however, you also better have a plan for a guy to be able to play to get better... Depending where you draft him (first rounders should start (start, not necessarily be an AllPro) by Game 1), if a player sits too long, most tend to rot... So need is definitely a strong factor in selecting a player... And then you have your prototype, ideal players for certain positions as Mr. Finks would have... And then when confronted with two players he really wanted - he took the bigger one... Rsanders24 and gosaints1 like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

05-02-2021, 11:54 PM	#13
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Yeah. I can agree with that. They have created themselves a lucrative job based upon a fairly useless premise. Not are their opinions on players sketchy, but even more so are their takes upon how teams draft. Just because you lack vision, knowledge, insight doesn't mean it's a useless premise... And if you'd bother to study the history of the game, then you'd already know guys like Kiper, away from the big lights show, have definitely had an impact on the game... Teams now hire many of the software companies that the scouting services have, if they are not already using those scouting services to augment their own info... We now have things like SPARQ, The Wunderlic, and a Combine and many more objective evaluation systems because of these services like Kiper... I Remember when Saints draft meetings were held over a week long golf trip; now with all the attention, despite nepotism, teams are under pressure to draft better... Some teams do it better consistently, than others; that's why those teams are usually rebounding after only one bad year and are in a Superbowl every five to ten years... This year was unusual because of the #BlackSwanEvent, shorted or non-existent seasons, and a lack of the usual evaluation processes... iceshack149, Rsanders24, gosaints1 and 1 others like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

05-03-2021, 01:59 AM	#15
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft SP was talking about the need vs BPA in his post draft interview and he basically stated that the philosophy is to get as many good players "in the house" as possible, and that is where coaching takes over. I think that is a sound approach, because you can easily get caught up in chasing certain positions, and never landing a good player inspite of that. Draft the BPA and fill positions on the depth chart with UDFAs and more importantly proven vets through the FA. Then through coaching and game-planning maximize your team's strenghts while minimizing the effect of the areas of weakness. AsylumGuido, SmashMouth and K Major like this.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

05-03-2021, 07:26 AM	#17
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft Originally Posted by FinSaint SP was talking about the need vs BPA in his post draft interview and he basically stated that the philosophy is to get as many good players "in the house" as possible, and that is where coaching takes over. I think that is a sound approach, because you can easily get caught up in chasing certain positions, and never landing a good player inspite of that. Draft the BPA and fill positions on the depth chart with UDFAs and more importantly proven vets through the FA. Then through coaching and game-planning maximize your team's strenghts while minimizing the effect of the areas of weakness. As I mentioned before, have no problem with BPA, so let's consider that approach... Say a GM has a ProBowl player at a premium position and as the draft unfolds a consensus top prospect at that position becomes available... That player also happens to be the top overall rated player on the board, the immediate teams behind could also use that player... Using BPA, the general idea would be you take the younger player, get him into camp to evaluate the rookie... You quickly confirmed (which really should've been done before selecting him) that he's every bit the goods... Now you have the opportunity to trade the proven veteran of a premium position to satisfy a need at another position, possibly get draft capital in return... Only problem is some teams are reluctant to execute the trade component of that process, so the younger player basically becomes stale on the bench... One of the reasons the 2017 draft class was so successful was because need was factored in with value... Marshon Lattimore, Ryan Ramczyk, Marcus Williams, Alex Anzalone all started Gm 1, and Kamara was reserved behind Peterson... But when you fast forward to when Kamara became a need and Payton was forced to play the young player, things really took off... If you take the BPA, make sure they're gonna have the opportunity to play or create that opportunity and address other roster holes... SmashMouth and gosaints1 like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

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05-03-2021, 08:52 AM	#18
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041	Re: Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft Originally Posted by K Major I'm not even sure there was a "draft expert" before Mel K Jr. Now all of the networks have at least 2 or 3. I've never taken his opinions on players seriously, but I do applaud him for having a hustle that has lasted this long. Basically, he created his own niche. Plus the whole Todd Todd Todd thing was funny for about a day or so.
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041

05-03-2021, 09:22 AM	#19
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,125 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft Mel Kiper's assessment on our 3rd round pick not so long ago. Grayson played in a pro style offense. He can play under center. He can go in a three, five or seven-step drop. He can come in and help you,” Kiper said. “He has enough mobility. Losing bothers him. He is a tremendous competitor. I think Grayson’s a second-rounder. How did that work out?

05-03-2021, 09:26 AM	#20
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,697 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Since you asked...Mel Kiper's Grade on Saints Draft Kiper hyped up every Notre Dame QB except the one I finally like SmashMouth likes this.