BlackandBlue

Good post, though I disagree with what you said about Ruff being better than Clemons. The guy has not played much in his NFL tenure, and I think that it\'s hard to compare when I have no evidence to compare with. You are right on with the secondary, though. Mitchell will be a future star on this team, just a matter of time. Knight\'s problem is that the style of game he plays, he has to rely too heavily on the front four to provide adequate pass rush, otherwise, a good quarterback and reciever will burn him down all day. Let\'s just hope whoever fills the position will be able to hit at least half as hard as he did.

The waiting drove me mad....
I don't want to hear from those that know...
Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed

Eddie is a....draftnik?

pakowitz

even tho i do not always agree with whodats opinion, i have to agree with him on the issue of D it up not answering his ?.... but he finally did.... took u long enough D.. but he got the job done

WhoDat

You see D_it_up - you should be a little less quick to jump than you have been. You didn\'t say much of anything different than I did. Go back and read my posts. I said that the Saints have not done enough in free agency. I said if the season started today they wouldn\'t be better. I said that if they don\'t add more talent they won\'t be better. But I also said that they have a lot of draft picks and money and the ability to get better.

You\'re right, since Haslett got here they haven\'t been big free agent movers (I\'m not going to go so far as to say they NEVER have been, but...). At the same time, they\'ve never been in this position, that I can remember. I have never known a Saints team to have this much young talent. I have never known them to be in such a great cap and draft position year after year. Now I want to see results. You\'re apparently content to watch this team remain a \"second-tier\" team. I\'m not. Gandy was a good move, but if that money had gone to Spikes I would have been happier. This team was four players on defense from being a serious Super Bowl contender. Right now they remain four players away. If you\'re happy to be \"second-tier\" and hope for a miracle, fine. I\'m not. I want to see results.

And one other thing. You guys can get down on Benson all ou want. Know this. There is no other person in New Orleans even remotely close to having the kind of money needed to buy the New Orleans Saints. Since oil left in the 70\'s and 80\'s, New Orleans has been a small market. Last I saw it was ranked in the 60s for national television markets. If Benson sells the team, kiss New Orleans can kiss the Saints goodbye. If his kids decide to move the team to San Antonio where they live, or a major market like LA, or an up-and-coming like Portland, etc. etc. etc. then kiss them goodbye.

In any case, you\'re right D_it_up. The Saints aren\'t likely to make big moves in free agency. As a result they\'re not likely to be a contender - you seem OK with that. I\'m not.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

WhoDat

By the way - didn\'t you just say that we\'re a \"second-tier\" team likely to stay a \"second-tier\" team. I said that if they didn\'t get some free agents they\'ll just end up being the consumate 9-7 one game out of the playoffs team that is little more than a feeder team to the real contenders in the league. How is what we said any different? Just wondering why I\'m Johnny Negative and you\'re the Saints Number One Fan... sounds like you\'re echoing everything I said.

WhoDat

By the way - didn\'t you just say that we\'re a \"second-tier\" team likely to stay a \"second-tier\" team. I said that if they didn\'t get some free agents they\'ll just end up being the consumate 9-7 one game out of the playoffs team that is little more than a feeder team to the real contenders in the league. How is what we said any different? Just wondering why I\'m Johnny Negative and you\'re the Saints Number One Fan... sounds like you\'re echoing everything I said.

D_it_up

WhoDat, I believe we\'ve finally reached an even plain. I haven\'t boasted that the Saints were going to be spectacular on defense next year, but I DO think they\'re finally going to give some playing time to players that MAY excel. None of which will be proven until they step on the field. Players like Sedrick Hodge, James Allen, Orlando Ruff, and Roger Knight can\'t prove what they can do until they get playing time. Who knows? Maybe the coaching staff DOES see these guys as \"diamonds in the rough\" and can turn out to be household names such as the Spikes, Thomas\', or maybe even Urlachers\' of the NFL. Until they get the PT, we\'ll never know how good or bad they are going to be. We can\'t truly judge how bad they are going to be until we see them play. Sure there will be mistakes that they make, because they are all still young and new to the NFL. Every missed tackle, blown coverage, or missed assignment will be a learning experience for them. I would\'ve loved seeing Spikes in a Saints jersey, but I knew the possibility was slim-to-none. Even Spikes, I\'m sure, misses a tackle or gets burned on occasion. That\'s what makes the NFL exciting. If everyone did what they were supposed to do on defense, then there would be no scoring at all. Some are just better at their position that others. Give these new guys a chance and let them prove or unprove what they can do. Though I still think Venturi isn\'t capable of coaching a Pee Wee team. I\'ll call for his head every day of the year until he\'s gone.

As for being \"satisfied\" with the Saints being a second-tier team, I can honestly say that I\'m not. Year after year, game after game, the Saints let me down in some shape or form, but I don\'t constantly harp on it. The thing is that I\'ve learned to accept it. If you wonder why I can accept it is, because I\'m a Chicago Cubs fan, too. Talk about futility year after year. I\'ve been a passenger on the Goodship \"Maybe Next Year\" since I was a kid. I\'m going to honestly say that the best football fans and baseball fans are of the New Orleans Saints and the Chicago Cubs, because we perenially have nothing to cheer about at the end of the season, yet we still remain faithful. I never once said that I disagreed with you, but what I was implying is the negativity behind your statements. If I\'ve offended you, I apologize. I\'m man enough to do that. The most insulting thing a person can do is not to question a teams loyalty, but to question a man\'s intelligence. That\'s why I came back at you like I did. Nonetheless, what\'s done is done. We can\'t change what was said, but we can move on like men and call it even.

I know this whole debate has nothing to do with the Cubs, but I thought it fitting to show why I can accept the Saints franchise as being \"perrenial losers\".

People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

WhoDat

Very big of you D_it_up - we\'ll call it even. I know I was being negative, and I can understand it getting people down. I live in Chicago, so I actually watch the Cubs blow it year after year man. I know what you mean.

The thing that really gets to me about this particular Saints team though is the talent. Normally, my expectations for the Saints are mild. However, sometime during the first few weeks of last season I let myself believe that we really had a chance. While I was slapped in the face for it by yet another collapse, I tried to remain positive about the prospects for this off-season. Normally, I strive for realism. I thought going into the off-season that, even from a pessimistic point of view, the Saints would sign a couple of key free agents on defense and improve their defense enough to punch their playoff ticket.

I know that there is plenty of time left in free agency - I\'m just really disappointed in what they\'ve done so far. You\'re right. Guys like Ruff, Allen, Hodge, Mitchell, Ambrose, etc. could all prove to be better than I expect. However, I\'m starting to realize that our personnel guys aren\'t nearly as astute when it comes to talent evaluation as I thought.

Really, everyone points to Horn and Brooks as the examples of how they \"discover\" great talent (I exclude Deuce b/c everyone knew he was good - it may have been surprising for us a take a shot at him, but...) Otherwise, who have they brought in that really panned out? Who have they let go that really flopped? Williams, Glover, and Roaf are all Pro Bowlers. Johnson got hurt, so you don\'t know. Knight is a good player. Otherwise, they were wrong about Hand. They were wrong about Clemons... Connell, Sloan, Turley\'s ability to play left tackle....

I know that things could get better. I just can\'t bring myself to believe it again after being let down so hard this past season and then again so far in the off-season. I mean - are they a value team, or are they just cheap? I know guys like Spikes and trading for Woodson are very unlikely. But I put Chris Claiborne\'s name up here months ago. He\'s cost us about half a million dollars more a year than Ruff. That\'s not a better value?

In any case, I\'m just down on this team right now. I realize that I pulled you into a situation that you didn\'t necessarily deserve to be brought into. Again, I apologize. It\'s just rough when you get jumped on in every thread you post b/c you\'re not Mr. Positive. I\'m a Saints fan, man. How positive can I really be?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

subguy

Isn\'t this a Kodak moment for you two? You guys make me proud to be a Saints fan.

[Edited on 26/3/2003 by subguy]

Trey

Why haven\'t the saints participated more in FA, because in the organizations mind and mine there wasn\'t much out there. The saints hate 3 things Fat, Slow, and Bad Mouthing. Spikes was never a real option for us because this entire organiztion will not tolerate players who berate there team. Its hard to blame Spikes being in Cinci, but negative talk gets you a walk. Second, Claibone is a fat. How many players on the team now have trouble keeping there weight down with all the food here. Claiborne would be Hand and Grady\'s size by mid season. We took a chance with Ruff, he wants a shot we want someone hungry to make a name for themselves, not hungry for there next meal. Besides, he\'s cheap. Truely quality MLB\'s will almost never make it to free agency because they have truly become a rarity in the league. There was only one coner worth anything in FA and we signed him. Anybody who even thinks that we should have gone after Bly or even tried to compete with the insane offer he got just needs to give it up. The Safetey\'s out there are slow as hell, if we sign one we haven\'t done a thing except overpay( Jones might be an exception to that. Our defense sucked but there is little to help that. Remember that this team was only supposed to win around 6 games in the preseason. We were able to sucker some good teams at the beinning of the season, and the be to cocky with some suck ass teams late. Duece\'s injury, AB constantly peaking over his left sholder so he wasn\'t killed because of turnstyle turly sad performance, and wideout dropping balls in their hand lost us just as many games last year as our D

WhoDat

You\'re right - our offense, which average 30 points a game for almost the entire season definitely cost us as many or more games as our defense... which team are we talking about again?