Well now, who's not next

subguy · 03-24-2003, 08:37 AM

Saints | Hedging Their Bets? - posted at KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com)
5:36 PT: The Boston Herald reports New England Patriots S Tebucky Jones is still a Patriot and likely will stay that way. "I don't think it's going to happen," said New Orleans Saints Jim Haslett. They are the only team to have publicly expressed interest in Jones, to this point. "We'd like to have him, definitely. Just not at the price they're insisting on." Though the Patriots said there have been "no negotiations, none" between them and any other team about Jones, several Saints sources indicated that the compensation issue has been established. The Saints are offering a third-round pick, the Patriots are insisting on a second-round pick. "We're not going to (give up a second-round pick)," said Haslett, who added that the Saints already began looking in another direction and are likely to sign a different free safety this week.

WhoDat · 03-24-2003, 10:27 AM

\"I guess nothing has happened as of late to inspire me to think this will be a turning point. Hence the thoughts of this being a sinking ship next year.\" - Gatorman

Well Gator, I guess you were right in the first place. Sinking ship. They may get better through the draft, but they won\'t improve enough on D to have a real shot.

WhoDat · 03-24-2003, 11:54 AM

Hey Gator, our dingy will always float. You can always find second and third tier players in free agency. You can always add some good players through the draft. But as long as we\'re only keeping players until they\'re good enough to want more money, as long as we don\'t take steps to bring in some young experienced top talent, we\'ll always have a dingy... never a yacht.

My question for all of you people that think the Saints are doing exactly what they should be doing is - when is this future date that we are supposed to finally be contenders? You keep saying that the Saints shouldn\'t go out and get high profile free agents b/c it puts the future in jeopardy. Whereas, if we take our shot now, if we sell the farm for this year or next year, we have a shot at a title now, but then we have to \"rebuild\". Aren\'t we supposedly \"rebuilding\" on defense RIGHT NOW? Haven\'t we \"rebuilt\" our offense over the last two or three seasons.

Don\'t mortgage the future for today huh? What future? A perpetual 9-7 team that doesn\'t make the playoffs? A team that is always a couple of years away? Tell me, when do you start to expect results? I want a date from you people, just so I know when I can begin to expect this team to put a winner on the field. This year, next, the year after? Haslett has been here for three years. He\'s had plenty of time. They squandered an incredibly talented team and a great opportunity last year. This year remains put up or shut up year for me. They don\'t do it this year, it\'s house cleaning time. Want me to find quotes where you said the exact same thing Gator?

D_it_up · 03-24-2003, 02:26 PM

I have one thing to say about Jim Haslett. In my opinion he is the best coach the Saints have ever had. Sure, Jim Mora took the Saints to the playoffs four times, but what did he do then? HE CHOKED! Terrible play-calling is his bag, baby, when it comes to the play-offs. Mike Ditka? WHAT A JOKE! The only reason he won in Chicago that season was because his team was LOADED with talent...Everyone thought Ditka was going to be our savior. Has comes in and takes a team that wasn\'t supposed to produce SQUAT and won the division with a 10-6 record and beat the defending Super Bowl champions, not once, but TWICE that year. Sure they had a meltdown the next season. They got the poison out and worked on it. Yeah they had a slighter meltdown this season, but that isn\'t all to be put on Haslett\'s shoulders. You say Haslett has had enough time to turn the team into a winner? I believe he\'s just begun. Other than Jim Mora, what other Saints coach has a winning percentage OVER .500 in Saints history? After many years of obscurity, the Saints are actually playing decent football. They\'re hanging in there with the contenders and winning. If they can ever figure out how to play against the pretenders, then this team will be a force. 3 years is hardly enough time to turn a team that is notorious for losing into a contending team. You may argue that other teams have done it, but for crying out loud, we are the Saints. When have they ever done what the other teams have done? Now quit being so stinking negative about everything, WhoDat. I want to see the Saints win the Super Bowl or hell, even improve over last year, more than ANYONE. I\'m just not going to criticize every single move they make just because it isn\'t what I WOULD LIKE THEM TO DO. I\'m not the GM, you\'re not the GM, nor is anyone in here. We can bellyache and moan over each decision made, but there has got to be a logical reason behind what their plans are. The only way I wouldn\'t say it to be logical is if Kuharich were still the GM.....then we\'d be in serious trouble.

iceshack149 · 03-24-2003, 04:25 PM

There you guys go bringing me down again. Let us go over last season\'s wins. We beat the super bowl team twice last year. Packers, Steelers, Niners. All play-off teams. I tend to think that the offense this year will be even better than last year. And our defense will be better. Maybe there\'s a lack of killer instinct. The Saints have a history of not knowing how to win when it really matters. I\'m with Pak, we may have a 12-4 team here. They just need to be more aggresive. Smell blood and and finish a team off. I\'ll probably still pick up AB for my fantasy football team again.
Whodat, go to your local health store and pick up some serotonin. Or get some prozac from your doctor. Get enough for Gatorman too.

[Edited on 24/3/2003 by iceshack149]

subguy · 03-24-2003, 07:19 PM

I refuse to be redundant :casstet:

WhoDat · 03-24-2003, 07:47 PM

You know what - you guys are the ones that need the medicine. Seriously - why is what I\'m saying so wrong? B/c I don\'t think that the Saints will be 16-0 and win the Super Bowl in a walk next year? Give me a F$&%ing break. If you think that the ultimate responsibility of what ANY team does falls on the shoulders of anyone other than the coach, then you do NOT understand sports. Haslett is exactly the person who is ultimately responsible for how this team plays.

If a team has bad players, not getting to the playoffs may be acceptible. However, that team should still perform up to their potential. The New Orleans Saints had the talent to win the NFC South and have a bye in the first round of the playoffs last year. HASLETT is responsible for the TEAM\'S failure. Furthermore, find me a team that has gone to the Super Bowl in the last five years that didn\'t have a coach who had gone to his first within his first three or four years. Callahan - first year, Gruden - first year, Mike Martz - second year, Belichick - second year, Fassel - 3rd year, Billick - 2nd year... do you want more? In fact, the odds are now more strongly against Haslett to go to the Super Bowl than they were when he first got here.

Gator is absolutely right. If this team chokes again Haslett will be fired. Furthermore, I don\'t care if I\'m bringing you down. This board doesn\'t exist so that we can all blow sunshine up each other\'s asses complimenting the great work that the Saints are doing. They\'re not. I love that all of you are so confident in this group. It amazes me that you are always so quick to side with the current coach, or GM, or owner, but as soon as a new one comes along the last one was totally crazy. It just makes me more secure in my own opinion, b/c I know if this team chokes this year and Haslett is fired, the same people talking about how Loomis and Haslett know exactly what it is that they\'re doing now, will be the ones talking about how we shouldn\'t even bring up their names b/c they were obviously dillusional.

Even more ridiculous is the perception. Why is Haslett a good coach? Why isn\'t he simply the recipient of a talented team? He is supposed to be a \'defensively minded players coach.\' That\'s all I\'ve heard him billed as. A strong-willed, no nonsense, defensive players coach. Does that sound like Haslett to you? Numerous players have talked about how the Saints show no loyalty to their players. Turley talked about his disreguard for player issues. I have NEVER heard a straight answer from him. In fact, with each collapse his answers become more babble and double-speak. Finally, this is the WORST defense the Saints have had in my lifetime - and the team bends under the pressure of the playoffs. Yeah, that\'s exactly the kind of strong-willed, non-nonsense, defensively minded, happy player team you would expect right?

Bottom line - the Saints have NOT improved on defense. Maybe they still can. I hope so. But, again, I will say that if this team doesn\'t seriously step it up in the off-season and get some talented experienced players in here on the defensive side of the ball don\'t expect much better than 9-7 and third in the division - a losing record and last in the division is not out of the question either.

D_it_up · 03-24-2003, 09:05 PM

I don\'t expect everyone to blow sunshine up everyone\'s ass on this board, but give me a break, dude. I don\'t believe you\'ve posted one POSITIVE thing about the Saints in many of your last posts. It almost sounds like you aren\'t a fan. But to say that people \"do NOT understand sports at all\" is just a flat out insult, Mr. GodOFKnowingEverythingAboutSports\". It\'s obviously YOU who doesn\'t know much about sports if you harp on the SAME THING in ALMOST EVERY POST. *Hands you a tissue for the Saints not kissing your butt for what you want* And obviously, you haven\'t been much of a Saints fan if you think they\'d change their approach any of what they\'ve done over the years. As long as Tom Benson is the owner, things will remain the same. So to put it completely on Haslett, Loomis, or the rest of the coaching staff or front office is totally asanine and a bit naive if you ask me. They only have so much control of the situation when most of them are puppets in Benson\'s show. If I\'m wrong on that statement, then I\'ll never make another post in this community again. If you feel offended by my statements, then maybe you should think about what you say directed towards others before you take offense.

WhoDat · 03-24-2003, 11:15 PM

Thank you Gator - this off-season has been crap. I cannot believe that people on this board can be happy with it. The Saints have not added a SINGLE experienced STARTER to their 26th ranked defense. Let me ask you all a question - what part of our team LOST games for us last year?

Answer: the defense. It doesn\'t matter how good your offense is if your defense is worse. Defense wins championships and ours sucks. Am I negative about where the Saints are? Yeah I am... and for good reason. The Saints have been unable to get to the playoffs the last two years. The choke down the stretch despite having as much or more talent than any other Saints team I\'ve ever seen.

I applaud Loomis, the Muellers, and Haslett\'s abilty to grade young talent. Our drafts have been better in the last three years than any I can remember. But they almost ALWAYS do the wrong thing in free agency.

I was very optimistic after the season despite yet another collapse. Go back and look. I talked about how much money the Saints had available to use to bring in new players. I talked about their great draft position and all that could be. I\'ve sat by and watch the Saints make no positive moves. It has nothing to do with what I think is best. If they had added a TE or a backup runningback, or even another receiver I would at least be happy to see them active. But instead they\'ve sat on their hands.

Seriously D_it_up, how have the Saints gotten better? Give me a list of reasons why you think this team will win more games and get to the playoffs next year, let alone contend for a Super Bowl. I\'ve given you a ton of reasons why I don\'t think they will, but you haven\'t name a single reason why they will get better. So tell me, why will the Saints be better next year?

WhoDat · 03-24-2003, 11:21 PM

PS - D_it_up, this is what you said about free agency after the season ended:

\"The smart thing to do would be to give Sammy a good contract and dump some other dead weight...Clemons, Hand, Bellamy, Whitehead, Irvin, etc...There are more than capable guys to play on the defense and with smart draft picks and a couple big defensive free agent signings, the Saints can be a perfectly balanced team. Oh, yeah. FIRE THAT WASTE OF SPACE, RICK VENTURI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\"

So have we fired Venturi or hired and \"big defensive free agents\"? Nope, we\'ve done none of the things that YOU said this team needed to do to get better... oh yeah, we\'re Super Bowl bound baby.

03-24-2003, 08:37 AM	#1
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,095	Well now, who's not next Saints \| Hedging Their Bets? - posted at KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com) 5:36 PT: The Boston Herald reports New England Patriots S Tebucky Jones is still a Patriot and likely will stay that way. "I don't think it's going to happen," said New Orleans Saints Jim Haslett. They are the only team to have publicly expressed interest in Jones, to this point. "We'd like to have him, definitely. Just not at the price they're insisting on." Though the Patriots said there have been "no negotiations, none" between them and any other team about Jones, several Saints sources indicated that the compensation issue has been established. The Saints are offering a third-round pick, the Patriots are insisting on a second-round pick. "We're not going to (give up a second-round pick)," said Haslett, who added that the Saints already began looking in another direction and are likely to sign a different free safety this week.

03-24-2003, 10:27 AM	#2
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Well now, who's not next \"I guess nothing has happened as of late to inspire me to think this will be a turning point. Hence the thoughts of this being a sinking ship next year.\" - Gatorman Well Gator, I guess you were right in the first place. Sinking ship. They may get better through the draft, but they won\'t improve enough on D to have a real shot.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

03-24-2003, 11:54 AM	#3
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Well now, who's not next Hey Gator, our dingy will always float. You can always find second and third tier players in free agency. You can always add some good players through the draft. But as long as we\'re only keeping players until they\'re good enough to want more money, as long as we don\'t take steps to bring in some young experienced top talent, we\'ll always have a dingy... never a yacht. My question for all of you people that think the Saints are doing exactly what they should be doing is - when is this future date that we are supposed to finally be contenders? You keep saying that the Saints shouldn\'t go out and get high profile free agents b/c it puts the future in jeopardy. Whereas, if we take our shot now, if we sell the farm for this year or next year, we have a shot at a title now, but then we have to \"rebuild\". Aren\'t we supposedly \"rebuilding\" on defense RIGHT NOW? Haven\'t we \"rebuilt\" our offense over the last two or three seasons. Don\'t mortgage the future for today huh? What future? A perpetual 9-7 team that doesn\'t make the playoffs? A team that is always a couple of years away? Tell me, when do you start to expect results? I want a date from you people, just so I know when I can begin to expect this team to put a winner on the field. This year, next, the year after? Haslett has been here for three years. He\'s had plenty of time. They squandered an incredibly talented team and a great opportunity last year. This year remains put up or shut up year for me. They don\'t do it this year, it\'s house cleaning time. Want me to find quotes where you said the exact same thing Gator?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-24-2003, 02:26 PM	#4
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Well now, who's not next I have one thing to say about Jim Haslett. In my opinion he is the best coach the Saints have ever had. Sure, Jim Mora took the Saints to the playoffs four times, but what did he do then? HE CHOKED! Terrible play-calling is his bag, baby, when it comes to the play-offs. Mike Ditka? WHAT A JOKE! The only reason he won in Chicago that season was because his team was LOADED with talent...Everyone thought Ditka was going to be our savior. Has comes in and takes a team that wasn\'t supposed to produce SQUAT and won the division with a 10-6 record and beat the defending Super Bowl champions, not once, but TWICE that year. Sure they had a meltdown the next season. They got the poison out and worked on it. Yeah they had a slighter meltdown this season, but that isn\'t all to be put on Haslett\'s shoulders. You say Haslett has had enough time to turn the team into a winner? I believe he\'s just begun. Other than Jim Mora, what other Saints coach has a winning percentage OVER .500 in Saints history? After many years of obscurity, the Saints are actually playing decent football. They\'re hanging in there with the contenders and winning. If they can ever figure out how to play against the pretenders, then this team will be a force. 3 years is hardly enough time to turn a team that is notorious for losing into a contending team. You may argue that other teams have done it, but for crying out loud, we are the Saints. When have they ever done what the other teams have done? Now quit being so stinking negative about everything, WhoDat. I want to see the Saints win the Super Bowl or hell, even improve over last year, more than ANYONE. I\'m just not going to criticize every single move they make just because it isn\'t what I WOULD LIKE THEM TO DO. I\'m not the GM, you\'re not the GM, nor is anyone in here. We can bellyache and moan over each decision made, but there has got to be a logical reason behind what their plans are. The only way I wouldn\'t say it to be logical is if Kuharich were still the GM.....then we\'d be in serious trouble.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

03-24-2003, 04:25 PM	#5
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,258 Blog Entries: 1	Well now, who's not next There you guys go bringing me down again. Let us go over last season\'s wins. We beat the super bowl team twice last year. Packers, Steelers, Niners. All play-off teams. I tend to think that the offense this year will be even better than last year. And our defense will be better. Maybe there\'s a lack of killer instinct. The Saints have a history of not knowing how to win when it really matters. I\'m with Pak, we may have a 12-4 team here. They just need to be more aggresive. Smell blood and and finish a team off. I\'ll probably still pick up AB for my fantasy football team again. Whodat, go to your local health store and pick up some serotonin. Or get some prozac from your doctor. Get enough for Gatorman too. [Edited on 24/3/2003 by iceshack149]
	"...it's good to have friends, no matter where they are."--JOESAM2002

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03-24-2003, 07:19 PM	#6
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,095	Well now, who's not next I refuse to be redundant :casstet:

03-24-2003, 07:47 PM	#7
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Well now, who's not next You know what - you guys are the ones that need the medicine. Seriously - why is what I\'m saying so wrong? B/c I don\'t think that the Saints will be 16-0 and win the Super Bowl in a walk next year? Give me a F$&%ing break. If you think that the ultimate responsibility of what ANY team does falls on the shoulders of anyone other than the coach, then you do NOT understand sports. Haslett is exactly the person who is ultimately responsible for how this team plays. If a team has bad players, not getting to the playoffs may be acceptible. However, that team should still perform up to their potential. The New Orleans Saints had the talent to win the NFC South and have a bye in the first round of the playoffs last year. HASLETT is responsible for the TEAM\'S failure. Furthermore, find me a team that has gone to the Super Bowl in the last five years that didn\'t have a coach who had gone to his first within his first three or four years. Callahan - first year, Gruden - first year, Mike Martz - second year, Belichick - second year, Fassel - 3rd year, Billick - 2nd year... do you want more? In fact, the odds are now more strongly against Haslett to go to the Super Bowl than they were when he first got here. Gator is absolutely right. If this team chokes again Haslett will be fired. Furthermore, I don\'t care if I\'m bringing you down. This board doesn\'t exist so that we can all blow sunshine up each other\'s asses complimenting the great work that the Saints are doing. They\'re not. I love that all of you are so confident in this group. It amazes me that you are always so quick to side with the current coach, or GM, or owner, but as soon as a new one comes along the last one was totally crazy. It just makes me more secure in my own opinion, b/c I know if this team chokes this year and Haslett is fired, the same people talking about how Loomis and Haslett know exactly what it is that they\'re doing now, will be the ones talking about how we shouldn\'t even bring up their names b/c they were obviously dillusional. Even more ridiculous is the perception. Why is Haslett a good coach? Why isn\'t he simply the recipient of a talented team? He is supposed to be a \'defensively minded players coach.\' That\'s all I\'ve heard him billed as. A strong-willed, no nonsense, defensive players coach. Does that sound like Haslett to you? Numerous players have talked about how the Saints show no loyalty to their players. Turley talked about his disreguard for player issues. I have NEVER heard a straight answer from him. In fact, with each collapse his answers become more babble and double-speak. Finally, this is the WORST defense the Saints have had in my lifetime - and the team bends under the pressure of the playoffs. Yeah, that\'s exactly the kind of strong-willed, non-nonsense, defensively minded, happy player team you would expect right? Bottom line - the Saints have NOT improved on defense. Maybe they still can. I hope so. But, again, I will say that if this team doesn\'t seriously step it up in the off-season and get some talented experienced players in here on the defensive side of the ball don\'t expect much better than 9-7 and third in the division - a losing record and last in the division is not out of the question either.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-24-2003, 09:05 PM	#8
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Well now, who's not next I don\'t expect everyone to blow sunshine up everyone\'s ass on this board, but give me a break, dude. I don\'t believe you\'ve posted one POSITIVE thing about the Saints in many of your last posts. It almost sounds like you aren\'t a fan. But to say that people \"do NOT understand sports at all\" is just a flat out insult, Mr. GodOFKnowingEverythingAboutSports\". It\'s obviously YOU who doesn\'t know much about sports if you harp on the SAME THING in ALMOST EVERY POST. Hands you a tissue for the Saints not kissing your butt for what you want And obviously, you haven\'t been much of a Saints fan if you think they\'d change their approach any of what they\'ve done over the years. As long as Tom Benson is the owner, things will remain the same. So to put it completely on Haslett, Loomis, or the rest of the coaching staff or front office is totally asanine and a bit naive if you ask me. They only have so much control of the situation when most of them are puppets in Benson\'s show. If I\'m wrong on that statement, then I\'ll never make another post in this community again. If you feel offended by my statements, then maybe you should think about what you say directed towards others before you take offense.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

03-24-2003, 11:15 PM	#9
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Well now, who's not next Thank you Gator - this off-season has been crap. I cannot believe that people on this board can be happy with it. The Saints have not added a SINGLE experienced STARTER to their 26th ranked defense. Let me ask you all a question - what part of our team LOST games for us last year? Answer: the defense. It doesn\'t matter how good your offense is if your defense is worse. Defense wins championships and ours sucks. Am I negative about where the Saints are? Yeah I am... and for good reason. The Saints have been unable to get to the playoffs the last two years. The choke down the stretch despite having as much or more talent than any other Saints team I\'ve ever seen. I applaud Loomis, the Muellers, and Haslett\'s abilty to grade young talent. Our drafts have been better in the last three years than any I can remember. But they almost ALWAYS do the wrong thing in free agency. I was very optimistic after the season despite yet another collapse. Go back and look. I talked about how much money the Saints had available to use to bring in new players. I talked about their great draft position and all that could be. I\'ve sat by and watch the Saints make no positive moves. It has nothing to do with what I think is best. If they had added a TE or a backup runningback, or even another receiver I would at least be happy to see them active. But instead they\'ve sat on their hands. Seriously D_it_up, how have the Saints gotten better? Give me a list of reasons why you think this team will win more games and get to the playoffs next year, let alone contend for a Super Bowl. I\'ve given you a ton of reasons why I don\'t think they will, but you haven\'t name a single reason why they will get better. So tell me, why will the Saints be better next year?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-24-2003, 11:21 PM	#10
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Well now, who's not next PS - D_it_up, this is what you said about free agency after the season ended: \"The smart thing to do would be to give Sammy a good contract and dump some other dead weight...Clemons, Hand, Bellamy, Whitehead, Irvin, etc...There are more than capable guys to play on the defense and with smart draft picks and a couple big defensive free agent signings, the Saints can be a perfectly balanced team. Oh, yeah. FIRE THAT WASTE OF SPACE, RICK VENTURI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\" So have we fired Venturi or hired and \"big defensive free agents\"? Nope, we\'ve done none of the things that YOU said this team needed to do to get better... oh yeah, we\'re Super Bowl bound baby.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"