2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston

BakoSaint · 05-22-2021, 01:04 AM

Winston has one legit receiver to target. Kamara is the #2 receiver. And Michael Thomas limped all year so back to 100% is not guaranteed. I doubt Maholmes could win MVP with what Hill or Winston will be working with. Maybe Tua and Burrow are dark horses. They got new weapons. Winston lost weapons. Maybe Tua was shaking off the rust, maybe Burrow will grow in Year 2.

AsylumGuido · 05-22-2021, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by The Dude

One would think.....

In Payton's offensive scheme it all depends upon what the defense dictates. Most plays have always had a run or pass option based upon what the defense shows. If the defense shows a hedge toward the run 20 plays in a row they'll end upon passing the ball on almost all of those plays. On the other hand, if the defense plays heavy coverage we see a heavy dose of the run. I know some do not agree with this scheme, but it has produced arguably the best offense in the league over the past decade and a half.

Perhaps without Brees under center there will be less audibling out of the initial call. I guess we'll see.

AsylumGuido · 05-22-2021, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Winston has one legit receiver to target. Kamara is the #2 receiver. And Michael Thomas limped all year so back to 100% is not guaranteed. I doubt Maholmes could win MVP with what Hill or Winston will be working with. Maybe Tua and Burrow are dark horses. They got new weapons. Winston lost weapons. Maybe Tua was shaking off the rust, maybe Burrow will grow in Year 2.

I don't think you are giving enough credit to Calloway and the others.

st thomas · 05-22-2021, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I know you have repeated that many times. It makes perfect sense.

Haters gonna hate. That's just the way it is. I am growing extremely excited about the possibilities now that I am coming down off the Brees high.

If anyone out there still tries to claim anti-Winston bias based upon ONE season of 33 TD's and 30 picks then I'm sorry. You are full of sh!t. Look at Boston's numbers. THINK! Move beyond whatever you have against him (Winston) and realize we may be in a great position right now.

Welcome to the looking past Drew Brees era AG, it took some time for me also but I’m excited for the next chapter; with Jamesos or Swiss army or both.

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Rugby Saint II · 05-22-2021, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I know you have repeated that many times. It makes perfect sense.

Haters gonna hate. That's just the way it is. I am growing extremely excited about the possibilities now that I am coming down off the Brees high.

If anyone out there still tries to claim anti-Winston bias based upon ONE season of 33 TD's and 30 picks then I'm sorry. You are full of sh!t. Look at Boston's numbers. THINK! Move beyond whatever you have against him (Winston) and realize we may be in a great position right now.

I don't have anti-Winston based on that. It was eating the W, stupid decisions, poor game management. and his overall record. The guy looks like he's missing few brain cells....at least he always came across that way to me.

Nonetheless, he's a Saint now and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt but I am not on his band wagon until he proves himself.

st thomas · 05-22-2021, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I don't think you are giving enough credit to Calloway and the others.

That’s what I’m thinking we had some pretty impressive guys that stood up when we were limping. Well till they started limping also.

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Rugby Saint II · 05-22-2021, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

That’s what I’m thinking we had some pretty impressive guys that stood up when we were limping. Well till they started limping also.

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I totally agree st thomas. Callaway was impressive when I saw him out there catching every thing thrown his way. I think he had 19 out of 20 catches to targets last year in phenomenal rookie play considering there was no offseason for the rookie. He looks fluid and blocks well. He'll get a lot of targets this year. Tre Quan has the talent but I don't think that he can get enough separation need for a less accurate QB than Drew. If Smith couldn't make catches with Drew then he's not likely to do better with a QB who is not known for his accuracy. Johnson looked good and is the right fit for the Saints.

On the other hand they may have developed some chemistry running with the two's last year. We have talent and we drafted a speedster to open the field. We'll see how it develops.

st thomas · 05-22-2021, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I totally agree st thomas. Callaway was impressive when I saw him out there catching every thing thrown his way. I think he had 19 out of 20 catches to targets last year in phenomenal rookie play considering there was no offseason for the rookie. He looks fluid and blocks well. He'll get a lot of targets this year. Tre Quan has the talent but I don't think that he can get enough separation need for a less accurate QB than Drew. If Smith couldn't make catches with Drew then he's not likely to do better with a QB who is not known for his accuracy. Johnson looked good and is the right fit for the Saints.

On the other hand they may have developed some chemistry running with the two's last year. We have talent and we drafted a speedster to open the field. We'll see how it develops.

Well said

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The Dude · 05-22-2021, 11:21 PM

I won’t be too surprised if Winston has an MVP kind of year but usually MVP is awarded to a player on a team that will compete for a SB. I don’t think we have the pieces to be one of those teams even if Winston balls out. I could see him as Comeback Player of the Year but Prescott will be hard to beat as others have pointed out.

jnormand · 05-23-2021, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I don't have anti-Winston based on that. It was eating the W, stupid decisions, poor game management. and his overall record. The guy looks like he's missing few brain cells....at least he always came across that way to me.

Nonetheless, he's a Saint now and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt but I am not on his band wagon until he proves himself.

Same.

Everyone is hanging on his jock. I'm not doing that. No way. He's had a good team around him before and didn't become some sort of super star.

He still ate W's, threw picks and was a bad decision maker.

I admit that he definitely adds a dimension to the offense that hasn't been there for a few years (arm strength) but I'll hold off on my excitement.

Sorry, I've never been a fan of Winston. Still am not. I hope he makes me one.

05-22-2021, 01:04 AM	#11
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,768	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Winston has one legit receiver to target. Kamara is the #2 receiver. And Michael Thomas limped all year so back to 100% is not guaranteed. I doubt Maholmes could win MVP with what Hill or Winston will be working with. Maybe Tua and Burrow are dark horses. They got new weapons. Winston lost weapons. Maybe Tua was shaking off the rust, maybe Burrow will grow in Year 2.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,768

05-22-2021, 10:22 AM	#12
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Originally Posted by The Dude One would think..... In Payton's offensive scheme it all depends upon what the defense dictates. Most plays have always had a run or pass option based upon what the defense shows. If the defense shows a hedge toward the run 20 plays in a row they'll end upon passing the ball on almost all of those plays. On the other hand, if the defense plays heavy coverage we see a heavy dose of the run. I know some do not agree with this scheme, but it has produced arguably the best offense in the league over the past decade and a half. Perhaps without Brees under center there will be less audibling out of the initial call. I guess we'll see.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

05-22-2021, 10:23 AM	#13
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Originally Posted by BakoSaint Winston has one legit receiver to target. Kamara is the #2 receiver. And Michael Thomas limped all year so back to 100% is not guaranteed. I doubt Maholmes could win MVP with what Hill or Winston will be working with. Maybe Tua and Burrow are dark horses. They got new weapons. Winston lost weapons. Maybe Tua was shaking off the rust, maybe Burrow will grow in Year 2. I don't think you are giving enough credit to Calloway and the others. st thomas and SaintGnome like this.

05-22-2021, 10:54 AM	#14
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I know you have repeated that many times. It makes perfect sense. Haters gonna hate. That's just the way it is. I am growing extremely excited about the possibilities now that I am coming down off the Brees high. If anyone out there still tries to claim anti-Winston bias based upon ONE season of 33 TD's and 30 picks then I'm sorry. You are full of sh!t. Look at Boston's numbers. THINK! Move beyond whatever you have against him (Winston) and realize we may be in a great position right now. Welcome to the looking past Drew Brees era AG, it took some time for me also but I’m excited for the next chapter; with Jamesos or Swiss army or both. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05-22-2021, 11:34 AM	#15
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,765	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I know you have repeated that many times. It makes perfect sense. Haters gonna hate. That's just the way it is. I am growing extremely excited about the possibilities now that I am coming down off the Brees high. If anyone out there still tries to claim anti-Winston bias based upon ONE season of 33 TD's and 30 picks then I'm sorry. You are full of sh!t. Look at Boston's numbers. THINK! Move beyond whatever you have against him (Winston) and realize we may be in a great position right now. I don't have anti-Winston based on that. It was eating the W, stupid decisions, poor game management. and his overall record. The guy looks like he's missing few brain cells....at least he always came across that way to me. Nonetheless, he's a Saint now and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt but I am not on his band wagon until he proves himself. jnormand likes this.

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05-22-2021, 01:07 PM	#16
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I don't think you are giving enough credit to Calloway and the others. That’s what I’m thinking we had some pretty impressive guys that stood up when we were limping. Well till they started limping also. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05-22-2021, 02:58 PM	#17
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,765	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Originally Posted by st thomas That’s what I’m thinking we had some pretty impressive guys that stood up when we were limping. Well till they started limping also. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I totally agree st thomas. Callaway was impressive when I saw him out there catching every thing thrown his way. I think he had 19 out of 20 catches to targets last year in phenomenal rookie play considering there was no offseason for the rookie. He looks fluid and blocks well. He'll get a lot of targets this year. Tre Quan has the talent but I don't think that he can get enough separation need for a less accurate QB than Drew. If Smith couldn't make catches with Drew then he's not likely to do better with a QB who is not known for his accuracy. Johnson looked good and is the right fit for the Saints. On the other hand they may have developed some chemistry running with the two's last year. We have talent and we drafted a speedster to open the field. We'll see how it develops. st thomas likes this.
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05-22-2021, 03:46 PM	#18
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I totally agree st thomas. Callaway was impressive when I saw him out there catching every thing thrown his way. I think he had 19 out of 20 catches to targets last year in phenomenal rookie play considering there was no offseason for the rookie. He looks fluid and blocks well. He'll get a lot of targets this year. Tre Quan has the talent but I don't think that he can get enough separation need for a less accurate QB than Drew. If Smith couldn't make catches with Drew then he's not likely to do better with a QB who is not known for his accuracy. Johnson looked good and is the right fit for the Saints. On the other hand they may have developed some chemistry running with the two's last year. We have talent and we drafted a speedster to open the field. We'll see how it develops. Well said Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05-22-2021, 11:21 PM	#19
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston I won’t be too surprised if Winston has an MVP kind of year but usually MVP is awarded to a player on a team that will compete for a SB. I don’t think we have the pieces to be one of those teams even if Winston balls out. I could see him as Comeback Player of the Year but Prescott will be hard to beat as others have pointed out. jnormand likes this.
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05-23-2021, 09:00 AM	#20
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,530	Re: 2021 NFL MVP dark horses: Don't sleep on Justin Herbert, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I don't have anti-Winston based on that. It was eating the W, stupid decisions, poor game management. and his overall record. The guy looks like he's missing few brain cells....at least he always came across that way to me. Nonetheless, he's a Saint now and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt but I am not on his band wagon until he proves himself. Same. Everyone is hanging on his jock. I'm not doing that. No way. He's had a good team around him before and didn't become some sort of super star. He still ate W's, threw picks and was a bad decision maker. I admit that he definitely adds a dimension to the offense that hasn't been there for a few years (arm strength) but I'll hold off on my excitement. Sorry, I've never been a fan of Winston. Still am not. I hope he makes me one. SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.