Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

What government is mandating vaccine passports?

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

I have come around to thinking that it is a personal liberty. But I still have my doubts that it is best for the country.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Governments are mandating vaccines to be a government worker :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dem...amp/5599461001

But you see nothing wrong with this.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

We can argue over semantics I guess, but I think it is overly coercive when any government tells private businesses that they must deny service to their fellow citizens based on their vaccine status.

I also think that the more strong armed government is the more people are going to dig in their heels.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

First of all, the article doesn't refer to "government workers", it addresses health care workers. And, no, I don't have a problem with any employer mandating the vaccine for employees. The employee has the right to leave the employment. The employer has the right to protect it's business.

Besides, none of this has anything to do with Flipx99's claim that "the government telling its citizens they have to have vaccine passports" that I was questioning, does it?

;)

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

It is a public (government) rule implemented on all health care workers. OK,the rule is not required to be a government worker, But all health are workers, to work in that field, need the vaccine to get the approval of the government. You are willfully ignoring the difference.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

The government tells private businesses what they must do all of the time when it comes to health concerns. That's nothing new. It was put in place to protect those citizens. 1906 was the first year of government imposed mandates (Federal Meat Inspection Act and the Pure Food and Drug Act) on food related businesses.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Once again, what government is "telling its citizens they have to have vaccine passports"? That's where you entered the discussion.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

My friend who also played rugby just got of the hospital from Covid. It was breathing problems that put him there and he was in shape but unfortunately the damage is done to his lungs. I'm not going to tell anyone again what to do about their beliefs regarding the hazards of Covid but I strongly suggest that you do get your shots. People are twice as likely to be hospitalized with the Delta variant.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

I entered this discussion on many points, not just this one. But Canada has begun the process.

“The Government of Canada will require employees in the federally REGULATED air, rail, and marine transportation sectors to be vaccinated. The vaccination requirement will also extend to certain travellers. This includes ALL commercial air travellers, passengers on interprovincial trains, and passengers on large marine vessels with overnight accommodations, such as cruise ships.”

This was from this Forbes article. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...in-travel/amp/

Australia has similar restrictions coming.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Good for them! I completely in favor of that! There are several different vaccine requirements (polio, smallpox, yellow fever, etc.) by countries all over the world and have been for decades. This is nothing new.

But, still looking for anything about the government "telling its citizens they have to have vaccine passports".

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

So, you are looking for one specific thing I’m not referring to while sticking your fingers in your ear, shaking your head and screaming out loud while you ignore my points. You are right Guido. In your case haters gonna hate...”insert cat here”.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

You ask for a case. I show you a case. You say “good for them”. So you agree they are requiring vaccination proof or “passports” to travel in Canada. That is where we differ and I do not say “good for them”. The requirements of vaccination and masks against COVID has nowhere near the same proven benefits and need as measles or smallpox vaccinations do. This is a typical tactic of those protecting a weak position...bring out the extreme cases to support a radical view.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Radical view? LOL! Proof of various vaccinations have been required for decades for all sorts of travel. Nothing radical and nothing new. You are going to believe what you want to believe and not believe what you do not want to believe. Go for it! :D Thank God the vast majority of people see it differently.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9ruyw1X...g&name=900x900

:D

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Governments have required lots of things throughout history. Doesn’t make
them all good. That is what you refuse to acknowledge. All you want to see is is people comply.

You can’t handle it when people don’t agree with you about the Saints past decisions and you can’t handle when people don’t agree with your stance on the balance between government intervention and government control. The fact
that you won’t give credence to this opposing viewpoint is vital. You egotistically and proudly unable to even try to understand an opposing viewpoint.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Without some sort of compliance you have anarchy. Do you do what you are told by your boss at work? Do you follow traffic laws?

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

So, because I agree I should not walk around punching people that means I should agree to forcing my kid to walk around with a ball gag?

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How about free speech, free press, Bearing arms, free assembly, Practice of religion. I suppose those should just go away because the government says so too Guido ?

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

it’s interesting to me. I live close to two significant spots of American historical importance. One of those is the North Bridge were the first shots of the revolutionary war were fired. The other is Salem where the witchcraft trials were held. It’s amazing how some people on this site remind me of one of those places and some remind me of the other.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

If your kid can keep his/her air to him/herself then you and they are free to do anything you/they like. In the same vein you can swing and punch your fists anyway you like as long as you don't hit anyone.

Just like the anti-vaxxers are requiring guarantees that the vaccine is 100% safe long term and will 100% protect them (neither which are possible), other need 100% guarantees that an unmasked kid isn't going to infect them. A kid in a mask is much less likely to infect someone in their space.

If you don't want your kid to wear a mask, then keep that kid home. Your right to be unmasked ends at the point where others can be affected, and infected, by that decision.

SFIAH

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LOL!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E96CZ9zX...pg&name=medium

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

And what does any of that have to do with requiring proof of vaccination for travel? Show me where the Constitution or the Bill of Rights states that citizens are free to openly spread disease solely because they do not want to be inconvenienced.

Exactly what Right has the government said "should just go away," Boston?

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

The right to travel is recognized as a fundamental liberty. The government can't infringe upon that right simply by making **** up like you are doing when you say, 'Show me where you have the right to infect people with Covid."

You are pretending that anyone who does not have vaccine papers is infectious, and anyone who does have them is not.

That's not a position based on logic. Furthermore, vaccine passport type policies completely ignore that some citizens are not even eligible to take the vaccine (children), some should not have the vaccine pursuant to CDC guidance (those who have had Covid within the last 90 days), and still others who have opted not to get the vaccine after consulting with their physicians.

And that's before we even get to the question of why we are giving such a priority to immunity gained through vaccination over immunity gained naturally. That is a significant question given that roughly 60% of our population has likely already been infected and the science is not at all clear that vaccines for such people will afford greater immunity or that it will be safe for such people.

Weak people love to turn to government to control other people as well as themselves.

Guido, in your spare time you should read the Gulag Archipelago and Ordinary Men. They both serve as warnings about how easily people become sheep.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

That sounds like what is called culling the herd.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Best possible solution to this craziness. Odd times we are in.

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Is this a serious question? Are you blind? You must not be a person that attends Church much for starters.

For you to even ask this question shows that you do not take the issue seriously, support government control of the people, or are in fact mentally impaired. (Could be all three).

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

First of all, I not only attend church AND Sunday school regularly, but am also on the the church council, volunteer for mission fundraising, help with the food pantry, etc.

Secondly, you completely ignored my very specific question. I can only assume you had no answer. Just as I suspected.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

The government has not said that the right to travel "should just go away" as was claimed by Boston. Try again.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

“ Secondly, you completely ignored my very specific question. I can only assume you had no answer. Just as I suspected.”


What do you mean? I just gave you an sample of a right they have taken away. Numerous times you have asked for an example of something, then ignored the example I give. Are you saying there has been no impact on the right of people to attend church? I guess no restaurants were forced to close in your area then. You are lucky because out here they were. That is taking away someone’s right to earn a living.

You just can’t mentally handle being proven wrong. It’s not my fault you can’t handle the truth. I guess haters like you are indeed gonna hate.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Lol! You are ridiculous. We can still go to church. We can still go to restaurants. Lol!

Give me a real right that the government is trying to “just make go away”.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Guido will always be right. In the THOUSANDS of arguements he's had on this forum, not once have I seen him admit he was wrong, respect someone's differing opinion or even agree to disagree.

He's a disrespectful and narcissistic person. You're wasting your time.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Thanks Normand. I can be narcissistic too. I just am respectful and humble about it 😆!

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

So Guido, are you looking for me to produce evidence that the government said verbatim “The following rights should go away”? Is that it? Okay. I can’t produce something I never said I had. I provided examples of where the government did that in violation of people’s rights. I tend to think actions are more indicative than words. The President even admitted he was breaking law it as he extended rules on renter rights regarding eviction. Just another example you will gloss over.

Now here is where you will worm out about some detail I never mentioned and ignore the content of my words as a way to save face. Church services were closed during the lockdown. There is a right guaranteeing against that. Businesses were closed during the lock down. There is a right against that too. I’m not saying these were even the wrong moves, but to ignore the violation is showing an ignorance of the situation. This is without even getting into the “science” of masks.

Is that your big “Gotcha” moment where you now throw out your haters gonna hate meme ?

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Such hyperbole!

Limiting gatherings in a time of emergency is NOT taking away rights. No more so than a city government mandating a curfew to curtail looting after a hurricane or other disaster. You, and others, are construing inconveniences as restricting rights. Do you have a right to drive a vehicle? What if you have no driver's license? What if your car can't pass inspection? What if your road is blocked because of some damage or wreck ahead? Things get in the way at times. It isn't your right being revoked.

Yes, it was inconvenient that we had our in person church services interrupted. But we adjusted and were up and going the next week with online services. Restaurant owners adjusted when in house dining was interrupted and started providing pickup and delivery services.

A temporary hinderance for reason is not restricting one's rights. It is an excuse, as weak as it may be, for a minority of people to rattle their chains claiming government control. You have had no rights violated. You have just had your feelings hurt.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

“Such hyperbole!“
LMFAO. This from the guy who compared getting a haircut and purchasing shoes for your child to forcing vaccinations and forced mask wearing! Priceless.

Here is the crux of our disagreement. You are willing to give the government any unquestioned power it deems it needs without question and make excuses for it. I am not.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

What is this "government" that you keep speaking of? They are all elected officials. We have a constitutional republic. We have the right to elect our representation.

And speaking of hyperbole, I never "compared getting a haircut and purchasing shoes for your child to forcing vaccinations and forced mask wearing". LOL!

Speaking of which, do you agree that anyone who wants a vaccination has the right?

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

A record number of people are dying every day from Covid. I got my shot. I don't want to be a statistic.

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Taxes, I'm forced to pay taxes or go to jail Government and state both require it. What's the old saying " The only thing guaranteed in life is" death and taxes." I would call that government control. Just try not paying and it's 3 hots and a cot for poor people and unless you have enough money to buy your way out which some do ( big buisness, just one example) they never see 3 hots and a cot. That 1% has total control or do they? There is another saying I'm very fond of" safety in numbers" and I fall in that 99% bracket like everyone that I know and have ever known. Never think the government don't control, or your thinking the way they want you to think, and I'm not a sheep. Lots of smoke a mirrors out there folks.

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Who elected the CDC and by what authority did they institute a moratorium on property owners evicting tenants who did not pay their rent?

Biden stood up and admitted that the moratorium was "probably" unconstitutional but they did it anyway.

GUIDO, why don't you just come out and admit that your philosophy is, "govern me harder, daddy?"

Re: Saints Are Offering Refunds
 

Because it isn't. I am a lifelong Republican. I am fiscally conservative, but socially moderate. The radical right has all but destroyed the Republican party. I blame them for creating an environment where a moron like Biden can be elected by electing a moron like Trump. That said, I voted for Trump twice myself because of the alternatives.