Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots

jeanpierre · 09-29-2021, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had:

3 TDs
2 Int
7.2 yards/attempt
team 25.3 ppg
Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons.
4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters.
0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane
0 coaches missing for Covid protocol.

Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has:

7 TDs
2 Ints
6.1 Y/A
24.3 ppg
Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had.
1 preseason game working with starters.
3 games team displaced by Hurricane.
5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols.

Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell.

You really think the 2006 roster was equal to the 2021 Saints roster?

You're comparing apples and oranges...

jeanpierre · 09-29-2021, 08:21 AM

SmashMouth likes this.

Lord_Saint83 · 09-29-2021, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

If Mike returns healthy we should have a three WR set WRx Thomas/Callaway, WRz Harris/Stills, WRs Montgomery/Hogan, that's not too shabby...

Just seems like for Team Winston, there's always another reason 'round the corner to make excuses for Jameis' ineffectiveness this season...

Packers game was an outlier, and now that teams have that film, there's nothing demonstrating a consistent ability to methodically work downfield...

Brees, for all intent and purpose did it with far less; he really didn't have a healthy Thomas at all; could only get Sanders the ball on back shoulder, curls...

Say what you want about Cook, but he disappeared because he's overrated and only made big catches like Tre'Quan - because he was unguarded...

Reality is this, it's still early this season for Winston, we should have a better picture by the BYE, but we have five years of film on Winston's processing inability in the pocket...

Bigger Question - if Sean could take a reconstructed-shouldered Brees, make him the NFL's All-Time Passer, why are the brakes being pumped on a more talented Winston?

But I let the Winston apologists keep making their arguments, but eventually they'll wear out or run out of excuses until he gets it or Payton comes to Arians' conclusion...

Just like some here are Taysom apologist around here too. I love Taysom but I know he’s not a 17 game every snap starting QB, I’m sorry. But he’s perfect for what he does. Oh and what about the Teddy haters when he first started he first couple of games. Some on here y’all know who y’all are talking about Teddy sucks and check down Teddy, Teddy can’t throw down the field. Then when SP let Teddy rip, everyone was changing there tune chanting Teddy, Teddy, Teddy. And before you give me his 3-1 record, the defense carried the team not Taysom stats all the fumbles 6 and fumbles 3 lost the four games to pair with four td’s and 2 ints. He’s as turnover prone Jameis. And that infamous Philadelphia game he couldn't come back from behind to win that either, so how is he this vast improvement from Jameis? Don’t let the three wins confuse some of y’all the defense carried him just like they are carrying them now.

Boston Saint · 09-29-2021, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

You really think the 2006 roster was equal to the 2021 Saints roster?

You're comparing apples and oranges...

But that’s kind of the point. The current team doesn’t have the weapons IMO to help Winston get the ball downfield. I think that’s where the “issues” he’s had have mostly come from. Not his inability to read coverages and make decisions. It’s not people being Winston apologists. I could be wrong though.

K Major · 09-29-2021, 09:16 AM

“They are still teeing it off at 12 noon fellas” 😉 - Herm Edwards

K Major · 09-29-2021, 09:27 AM

Quick study on Highland Park (Stafford) and the Rams.

The guy is a good QB but more importantly he has good/elite weapons (I like to refer to them as route runners) + a solid pass catching TE.

Cooper Kuup (ask Lattimore), Robert Woods & Van Jefferson. Then add in a guy who can blow the top off (see last game) in Desean Jackson. That will be difficult to defend in the post season. There was a reason why Matthew wasn’t succeeding in Detroit. Not much around him (see Winston).

Saints don’t have that type of offensive firepower, but we do have an above avg DEFENSE.

Long season though, keep grinding.

jeanpierre · 09-29-2021, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83

Just like some here are Taysom apologist around here too. I love Taysom but I know he’s not a 17 game every snap starting QB, I’m sorry. But he’s perfect for what he does. Oh and what about the Teddy haters when he first started he first couple of games. Some on here y’all know who y’all are talking about Teddy sucks and check down Teddy, Teddy can’t throw down the field. Then when SP let Teddy rip, everyone was changing there tune chanting Teddy, Teddy, Teddy. And before you give me his 3-1 record, the defense carried the team not Taysom stats all the fumbles 6 and fumbles 3 lost the four games to pair with four td’s and 2 ints. He’s as turnover prone Jameis. And that infamous Philadelphia game he couldn't come back from behind to win that either, so how is he this vast improvement from Jameis? Don’t let the three wins confuse some of y’all the defense carried him just like they are carrying them now.

To draw that conclusion upon Taysom's small sample size is ridiculous...

Just as it would be to declare him the next Steve Young as Taysom had a 72% PaCmpRt, 208 PaYd/Gm, 4 PaTD, 4 RuTD, 2 Int, 2 Fl, going 3-1 in his first NFL starts...

If anything Taysom was trending up in his first four NFL starts...

Lord_Saint83 · 09-29-2021, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

To draw that conclusion upon Taysom's small sample size is ridiculous...

Just as it would be to declare him the next Steve Young as Taysom had a 72% PaCmpRt, 208 PaYd/Gm, 4 PaTD, 4 RuTD, 2 Int, 2 Fl, going 3-1 in his first NFL starts...

If anything Taysom was trending up in his first four NFL starts...

Looks like we’ll have to agree to disagree. Your judging Jameis on his Tampa days and his small sample size here too. All I’m saying is give the man a chance. If we did that then Tannehill and other qb’s that washed out on the original teams would be out the league. If he pans out fantastic if not then move on to Book or dip into the draft or FA to find another. I trust Sean in that if he thinks he’s ok then that’s good enough. I want this team to win no matter who is under center I’m rooting for them not waiting for them to fail

WW_Who_Dat · 09-29-2021, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had:

3 TDs
2 Int
7.2 yards/attempt
team 25.3 ppg
Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons.
4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters.
0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane
0 coaches missing for Covid protocol.

Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has:

7 TDs
2 Ints
6.1 Y/A
24.3 ppg
Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had.
1 preseason game working with starters.
3 games team displaced by Hurricane.
5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols.

Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell.

I respect everyone has an opinion Boston, we all do. But you can’t state facts with your views that contradict the word from Above … There’s only one way to view this … JW is running the same offense that TB ran when Brees was out in 2019. JW is running more or less the same offense that TH ran in 2020 when Brees was out. The offensive line has not performed to the same level as it did in 2019 and 2020 plus JW does not have the WR’s that TB and TH had to throw to. But it’s JW who has been ineffective … Never a JW fan but he is “OUR QB” and I’m on him until he’s not our QB.

Game 1 was not an outlier.
Game 2 Panthers Defense man handled our OL and disrupted the ENTIRE OFFENSIVE’s ability run or pass.
Game 3 We played well and took what NE gave us.

Looks very familiar to 2019 and 2020 with Brees out. But I think JW and the passing game will improve significantly when;

Our receiving group returns.

Our OL stabilizes.

Lord_Saint83 · 09-29-2021, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Quick study on Highland Park (Stafford) and the Rams.

The guy is a good QB but more importantly he has good/elite weapons (I like to refer to them as route runners) + a solid pass catching TE.

Cooper Kuup (ask Lattimore), Robert Woods & Van Jefferson. Then add in a guy who can blow the top off (see last game) in Desean Jackson. That will be difficult to defend in the post season. There was a reason why Matthew wasn’t succeeding in Detroit. Not much around him (see Winston).

Saints don’t have that type of offensive firepower, but we do have an above avg DEFENSE.

Long season though, keep grinding.

Right, look at what Goff has to throw to in Detroit at least Stafford had Golladay. Though Goff still sucks anyways

09-29-2021, 08:21 AM	#111
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Boston Saint Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had: 3 TDs 2 Int 7.2 yards/attempt team 25.3 ppg Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons. 4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters. 0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane 0 coaches missing for Covid protocol. Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has: 7 TDs 2 Ints 6.1 Y/A 24.3 ppg Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had. 1 preseason game working with starters. 3 games team displaced by Hurricane. 5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols. Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell. You really think the 2006 roster was equal to the 2021 Saints roster? You're comparing apples and oranges...

09-29-2021, 08:21 AM	#112
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Twitter SmashMouth likes this.

09-29-2021, 08:43 AM	#113
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jeanpierre If Mike returns healthy we should have a three WR set WRx Thomas/Callaway, WRz Harris/Stills, WRs Montgomery/Hogan, that's not too shabby... Just seems like for Team Winston, there's always another reason 'round the corner to make excuses for Jameis' ineffectiveness this season... Packers game was an outlier, and now that teams have that film, there's nothing demonstrating a consistent ability to methodically work downfield... Brees, for all intent and purpose did it with far less; he really didn't have a healthy Thomas at all; could only get Sanders the ball on back shoulder, curls... Say what you want about Cook, but he disappeared because he's overrated and only made big catches like Tre'Quan - because he was unguarded... Reality is this, it's still early this season for Winston, we should have a better picture by the BYE, but we have five years of film on Winston's processing inability in the pocket... Bigger Question - if Sean could take a reconstructed-shouldered Brees, make him the NFL's All-Time Passer, why are the brakes being pumped on a more talented Winston? But I let the Winston apologists keep making their arguments, but eventually they'll wear out or run out of excuses until he gets it or Payton comes to Arians' conclusion... Just like some here are Taysom apologist around here too. I love Taysom but I know he’s not a 17 game every snap starting QB, I’m sorry. But he’s perfect for what he does. Oh and what about the Teddy haters when he first started he first couple of games. Some on here y’all know who y’all are talking about Teddy sucks and check down Teddy, Teddy can’t throw down the field. Then when SP let Teddy rip, everyone was changing there tune chanting Teddy, Teddy, Teddy. And before you give me his 3-1 record, the defense carried the team not Taysom stats all the fumbles 6 and fumbles 3 lost the four games to pair with four td’s and 2 ints. He’s as turnover prone Jameis. And that infamous Philadelphia game he couldn't come back from behind to win that either, so how is he this vast improvement from Jameis? Don’t let the three wins confuse some of y’all the defense carried him just like they are carrying them now.
	Sometimes… You have to crush your enemies where they live!!!

09-29-2021, 09:00 AM	#114
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jeanpierre You really think the 2006 roster was equal to the 2021 Saints roster? You're comparing apples and oranges... But that’s kind of the point. The current team doesn’t have the weapons IMO to help Winston get the ball downfield. I think that’s where the “issues” he’s had have mostly come from. Not his inability to read coverages and make decisions. It’s not people being Winston apologists. I could be wrong though.

09-29-2021, 09:16 AM	#115
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots “They are still teeing it off at 12 noon fellas” 😉 - Herm Edwards Boston Saint likes this.

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09-29-2021, 09:27 AM	#116
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Quick study on Highland Park (Stafford) and the Rams. The guy is a good QB but more importantly he has good/elite weapons (I like to refer to them as route runners) + a solid pass catching TE. Cooper Kuup (ask Lattimore), Robert Woods & Van Jefferson. Then add in a guy who can blow the top off (see last game) in Desean Jackson. That will be difficult to defend in the post season. There was a reason why Matthew wasn’t succeeding in Detroit. Not much around him (see Winston). Saints don’t have that type of offensive firepower, but we do have an above avg DEFENSE. Long season though, keep grinding. Lord_Saint83 and Boston Saint like this.

09-29-2021, 09:34 AM	#117
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83 Just like some here are Taysom apologist around here too. I love Taysom but I know he’s not a 17 game every snap starting QB, I’m sorry. But he’s perfect for what he does. Oh and what about the Teddy haters when he first started he first couple of games. Some on here y’all know who y’all are talking about Teddy sucks and check down Teddy, Teddy can’t throw down the field. Then when SP let Teddy rip, everyone was changing there tune chanting Teddy, Teddy, Teddy. And before you give me his 3-1 record, the defense carried the team not Taysom stats all the fumbles 6 and fumbles 3 lost the four games to pair with four td’s and 2 ints. He’s as turnover prone Jameis. And that infamous Philadelphia game he couldn't come back from behind to win that either, so how is he this vast improvement from Jameis? Don’t let the three wins confuse some of y’all the defense carried him just like they are carrying them now. To draw that conclusion upon Taysom's small sample size is ridiculous... Just as it would be to declare him the next Steve Young as Taysom had a 72% PaCmpRt, 208 PaYd/Gm, 4 PaTD, 4 RuTD, 2 Int, 2 Fl, going 3-1 in his first NFL starts... If anything Taysom was trending up in his first four NFL starts... SmashMouth likes this.

09-29-2021, 09:54 AM	#118
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jeanpierre To draw that conclusion upon Taysom's small sample size is ridiculous... Just as it would be to declare him the next Steve Young as Taysom had a 72% PaCmpRt, 208 PaYd/Gm, 4 PaTD, 4 RuTD, 2 Int, 2 Fl, going 3-1 in his first NFL starts... If anything Taysom was trending up in his first four NFL starts... Looks like we’ll have to agree to disagree. Your judging Jameis on his Tampa days and his small sample size here too. All I’m saying is give the man a chance. If we did that then Tannehill and other qb’s that washed out on the original teams would be out the league. If he pans out fantastic if not then move on to Book or dip into the draft or FA to find another. I trust Sean in that if he thinks he’s ok then that’s good enough. I want this team to win no matter who is under center I’m rooting for them not waiting for them to fail leilung and K Major like this.
	Sometimes… You have to crush your enemies where they live!!!

09-29-2021, 09:55 AM	#119
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,270 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Boston Saint Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had: 3 TDs 2 Int 7.2 yards/attempt team 25.3 ppg Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons. 4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters. 0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane 0 coaches missing for Covid protocol. Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has: 7 TDs 2 Ints 6.1 Y/A 24.3 ppg Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had. 1 preseason game working with starters. 3 games team displaced by Hurricane. 5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols. Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell. I respect everyone has an opinion Boston, we all do. But you can’t state facts with your views that contradict the word from Above … There’s only one way to view this … JW is running the same offense that TB ran when Brees was out in 2019. JW is running more or less the same offense that TH ran in 2020 when Brees was out. The offensive line has not performed to the same level as it did in 2019 and 2020 plus JW does not have the WR’s that TB and TH had to throw to. But it’s JW who has been ineffective … Never a JW fan but he is “OUR QB” and I’m on him until he’s not our QB. Game 1 was not an outlier. Game 2 Panthers Defense man handled our OL and disrupted the ENTIRE OFFENSIVE’s ability run or pass. Game 3 We played well and took what NE gave us. Looks very familiar to 2019 and 2020 with Brees out. But I think JW and the passing game will improve significantly when; Our receiving group returns. Our OL stabilizes. Boston Saint likes this.

09-29-2021, 10:05 AM	#120
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by K Major Quick study on Highland Park (Stafford) and the Rams. The guy is a good QB but more importantly he has good/elite weapons (I like to refer to them as route runners) + a solid pass catching TE. Cooper Kuup (ask Lattimore), Robert Woods & Van Jefferson. Then add in a guy who can blow the top off (see last game) in Desean Jackson. That will be difficult to defend in the post season. There was a reason why Matthew wasn’t succeeding in Detroit. Not much around him (see Winston). Saints don’t have that type of offensive firepower, but we do have an above avg DEFENSE. Long season though, keep grinding. Right, look at what Goff has to throw to in Detroit at least Stafford had Golladay. Though Goff still sucks anyways K Major likes this.