Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots

jeanpierre · 09-28-2021, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83

He played in 7 games but he still had Emmanuel Sanders and Jared Cook. Those guys are better than what we got now

But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%...

And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble...

So really, was the WR position that much better last season?

We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan?

Lord_Saint83 · 09-28-2021, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%...

And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble...

So really, was the WR position that much better last season?

We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan?

Yea around 3 games. They used Sanders for the short and intermediate game when MT was out. It worked sorta but they weren’t playing to Sanders strengths which is stretching the field. Thomas wasn't 100% no doubt and he still lead the team in receptions and yards during Taysom’s start. Cook in all honesty was solid/good just that when he screwed up it was at the worst time. Since we don’t have much cash we gotta hope our homegrown talent will pan out in time as they get experience, mostly talking about Callaway. And it might take Stills a couple weeks to learn a good chunk of the playbook so he can be out there more often. I’m sure this is the defense approach to Roby as well

Boston Saint · 09-28-2021, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%...

And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble...

So really, was the WR position that much better last season?

We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan?

Keep in mind as well that Winston hasn’t exactly had the same chance to play and learn with the starters on the team as other QBs normally have. Weak armed Drew in his final season had many previous years to work with the coaches, line, backs, and some of the WRs and TEs. Winston had a COVID preseason as a backup last year, then a training camp/pre-season splitting time with Hill taking snaps with the first string players this year. He’s still learning a new system with new players.

The Dude · 09-28-2021, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Keep in mind as well that Winston hasn’t exactly had the same chance to play and learn with the starters on the team as other QBs normally have. Weak armed Drew in his final season had many previous years to work with the coaches, line, backs, and some of the WRs and TEs. Winston had a COVID preseason as a backup last year, then a training camp/pre-season splitting time with Hill taking snaps with the first string players this year. He’s still learning a new system with new players.

Doesn’t look like Stafford is having much of a problem getting acclimated over in LA. Plenty of veteran Qb’s have stepped right in on a new team and had success. Most without a coach like Payton, a HOF qb, and a year to study the system (COVID or not). The fact Winston has been here as long as he has should be a benefit him, not hinder him. He should know the system by now.
Still think Winston is our best option but I don’t see him as a long term solution.

Boston Saint · 09-28-2021, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

Doesn’t look like Stafford is having much of a problem getting acclimated over in LA. Plenty of veteran Qb’s have stepped right in on a new team and had success. Most without a coach like Payton, a HOF qb, and a year to study the system (COVID or not). The fact Winston has been here as long as he has should be a benefit him, not hinder him. He should know the system by now.
Still think Winston is our best option but I don’t see him as a long term solution.

Do you want to compare the receiving corps of the two teams? Did Stafford have to split camp and preseason reps with another QB? Did Stafford have only two preseason games? Not an apt comparison at all.

The Dude · 09-28-2021, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Do you want to compare the receiving corps of the two teams? Did Stafford have to split camp and preseason reps with another QB? Did Stafford have only two preseason games? Not an apt comparison at all.

Winston had 2 years. Surely that’s enough time to get to know the system. Being here for as long as he has, stepping in for half a game when Brees went down, and working privately with some of his team mates all offseason is just as good as what Stafford got coming into this season. Winston was working with our guys before Stafford even met his team mates or cracked open a play book in LA .

As far as personnel you are right, Stafford has some legit threats but you said Winston was still learning the system. He knows the system and continues to study it as all good players do. His main problem isn’t with the system, or even personnel, it’s still his decision making. If he was being asked to air it out all game and took a couple of those chances so be it, high risk/high reward. That’s not what’s been asked of him so far but it’s still happening.
I get that players aren’t getting open but the answer isn’t to try and force it. The defense was doing its job, don’t make it harder.

Thomas will help but I still don’t see Winston as a guy who can get you back in the game when you are down.

Boston Saint · 09-28-2021, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

Winston had 2 years. Surely that’s enough time to get to know the system. Being here for as long as he has, stepping in for half a game when Brees went down, and working privately with some of his team mates all offseason is just as good as what Stafford got coming into this season. Winston was working with our guys before Stafford even met his team mates or cracked open a play book in LA .

As far as personnel you are right, Stafford has some legit threats but you said Winston was still learning the system. He knows the system and continues to study it as all good players do. His main problem isn’t with the system, or even personnel, it’s still his decision making. If he was being asked to air it out all game and took a couple of those chances so be it, high risk/high reward. That’s not what’s been asked of him so far but it’s still happening.
I get that players aren’t getting open but the answer isn’t to try and force it. The defense was doing its job, don’t make it harder.

Thomas will help but I still don’t see Winston as a guy who can get you back in the game when you are down.

I’d still wager Stafford had more work with his first team players than Winston has had with the Saints first team players considering the situations. He had none last year because Hill got them and Hill got half this year and Stafford had three preseason games. Plus Stafford has been a 13 year starter while Winston has only been a 5 year starter. And I’ll concede that Stafford is likely a better overall QB at this point. But he’s always been considered a very good QB.

Winston’s decision making has him at a very good turnover total and TD/INT ratio (especially for him) through the first three games. The list of QBs with more INTs than him this season is long and has some big names like Mahomes on it. I thought one of the most cerebral plays I’ve seen him make was to throw the ball over Kamara’s head out of bounds when no one was open in the Green Bay game. The game plans have not called on him to need to step back and air it out. The effects of the hurricane and COVID losses have been genuine. Time will tell what comes though and weather he will be asked to and will be able to rack up passing yards when needed. If he has legitimate receivers I feel he will be able to based on his 5,000 yard passing season. Missing 2 starting O lineman going forward isn’t going to help though.

09-28-2021, 05:27 PM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83 He played in 7 games but he still had Emmanuel Sanders and Jared Cook. Those guys are better than what we got now But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%... And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble... So really, was the WR position that much better last season? We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan? jnormand and SmashMouth like this.

09-28-2021, 05:51 PM	#2
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jeanpierre But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%... And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble... So really, was the WR position that much better last season? We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan? Yea around 3 games. They used Sanders for the short and intermediate game when MT was out. It worked sorta but they weren’t playing to Sanders strengths which is stretching the field. Thomas wasn't 100% no doubt and he still lead the team in receptions and yards during Taysom’s start. Cook in all honesty was solid/good just that when he screwed up it was at the worst time. Since we don’t have much cash we gotta hope our homegrown talent will pan out in time as they get experience, mostly talking about Callaway. And it might take Stills a couple weeks to learn a good chunk of the playbook so he can be out there more often. I’m sure this is the defense approach to Roby as well
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09-28-2021, 05:54 PM	#3
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jeanpierre But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%... And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble... So really, was the WR position that much better last season? We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan? Keep in mind as well that Winston hasn’t exactly had the same chance to play and learn with the starters on the team as other QBs normally have. Weak armed Drew in his final season had many previous years to work with the coaches, line, backs, and some of the WRs and TEs. Winston had a COVID preseason as a backup last year, then a training camp/pre-season splitting time with Hill taking snaps with the first string players this year. He’s still learning a new system with new players.

09-28-2021, 06:43 PM	#4
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Boston Saint Keep in mind as well that Winston hasn’t exactly had the same chance to play and learn with the starters on the team as other QBs normally have. Weak armed Drew in his final season had many previous years to work with the coaches, line, backs, and some of the WRs and TEs. Winston had a COVID preseason as a backup last year, then a training camp/pre-season splitting time with Hill taking snaps with the first string players this year. He’s still learning a new system with new players. Doesn’t look like Stafford is having much of a problem getting acclimated over in LA. Plenty of veteran Qb’s have stepped right in on a new team and had success. Most without a coach like Payton, a HOF qb, and a year to study the system (COVID or not). The fact Winston has been here as long as he has should be a benefit him, not hinder him. He should know the system by now. Still think Winston is our best option but I don’t see him as a long term solution. jnormand likes this.
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09-28-2021, 07:24 PM	#5
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by The Dude Doesn’t look like Stafford is having much of a problem getting acclimated over in LA. Plenty of veteran Qb’s have stepped right in on a new team and had success. Most without a coach like Payton, a HOF qb, and a year to study the system (COVID or not). The fact Winston has been here as long as he has should be a benefit him, not hinder him. He should know the system by now. Still think Winston is our best option but I don’t see him as a long term solution. Do you want to compare the receiving corps of the two teams? Did Stafford have to split camp and preseason reps with another QB? Did Stafford have only two preseason games? Not an apt comparison at all. jnormand and AsylumGuido like this.

09-28-2021, 08:12 PM	#6
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Boston Saint Do you want to compare the receiving corps of the two teams? Did Stafford have to split camp and preseason reps with another QB? Did Stafford have only two preseason games? Not an apt comparison at all. Winston had 2 years. Surely that’s enough time to get to know the system. Being here for as long as he has, stepping in for half a game when Brees went down, and working privately with some of his team mates all offseason is just as good as what Stafford got coming into this season. Winston was working with our guys before Stafford even met his team mates or cracked open a play book in LA . As far as personnel you are right, Stafford has some legit threats but you said Winston was still learning the system. He knows the system and continues to study it as all good players do. His main problem isn’t with the system, or even personnel, it’s still his decision making. If he was being asked to air it out all game and took a couple of those chances so be it, high risk/high reward. That’s not what’s been asked of him so far but it’s still happening. I get that players aren’t getting open but the answer isn’t to try and force it. The defense was doing its job, don’t make it harder. Thomas will help but I still don’t see Winston as a guy who can get you back in the game when you are down. jnormand likes this.
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09-28-2021, 08:37 PM	#7
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by The Dude Winston had 2 years. Surely that’s enough time to get to know the system. Being here for as long as he has, stepping in for half a game when Brees went down, and working privately with some of his team mates all offseason is just as good as what Stafford got coming into this season. Winston was working with our guys before Stafford even met his team mates or cracked open a play book in LA . As far as personnel you are right, Stafford has some legit threats but you said Winston was still learning the system. He knows the system and continues to study it as all good players do. His main problem isn’t with the system, or even personnel, it’s still his decision making. If he was being asked to air it out all game and took a couple of those chances so be it, high risk/high reward. That’s not what’s been asked of him so far but it’s still happening. I get that players aren’t getting open but the answer isn’t to try and force it. The defense was doing its job, don’t make it harder. Thomas will help but I still don’t see Winston as a guy who can get you back in the game when you are down. I’d still wager Stafford had more work with his first team players than Winston has had with the Saints first team players considering the situations. He had none last year because Hill got them and Hill got half this year and Stafford had three preseason games. Plus Stafford has been a 13 year starter while Winston has only been a 5 year starter. And I’ll concede that Stafford is likely a better overall QB at this point. But he’s always been considered a very good QB. Winston’s decision making has him at a very good turnover total and TD/INT ratio (especially for him) through the first three games. The list of QBs with more INTs than him this season is long and has some big names like Mahomes on it. I thought one of the most cerebral plays I’ve seen him make was to throw the ball over Kamara’s head out of bounds when no one was open in the Green Bay game. The game plans have not called on him to need to step back and air it out. The effects of the hurricane and COVID losses have been genuine. Time will tell what comes though and weather he will be asked to and will be able to rack up passing yards when needed. If he has legitimate receivers I feel he will be able to based on his 5,000 yard passing season. Missing 2 starting O lineman going forward isn’t going to help though.
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