Register All Albums FAQ Community Experience
Go Back   New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com > Main > Saints

Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by BakoSaint Antonio Brown quit on his team mid game by refusing to respond to orders to take the field while dealing with a week-to-week ankle injury. Michael Thomas quit on his team in the offseason for a ...

Like Tree32Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-05-2022, 12:42 PM   #11
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 5,137
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Antonio Brown quit on his team mid game by refusing to respond to orders to take the field while dealing with a week-to-week ankle injury.

Michael Thomas quit on his team in the offseason for a year by refusing to have surgery for a major ankle injury or return phone calls or take appointments to check on the status of his attempted rehab without surgery.

Both players had ankle injuries. Both players coaches tried to reach them to assure their availability to play. Both players ghosted their coaches and made themselves unavailable with no explanation. Both players delayed a recommended medical treatment for a few months leading to their unavailability in the season, though Thomas was not creative enough to photoshop a document saying he had the surgery in February. It just happens Antonio Brown's disappearing act was a couple offensive possessions that led to missing about half a game, and Thomas' disappearing act was an entire offseason that led to missing an entire regular season. Also, Brown pulled his antics on a cheap prove-it contract after winning a Super Bowl and Thomas pulled his antics in the second year of a record setting contract when he was his teams only viable wide receiver with a new QB coming in.

It seems to me that some people take Michael Thomas' return next season as a given and others are highly skeptical, while most feel Antonio Brown should be done in the NFL but a few feel he could be worth a shot on a cheap contract knowing the risks. I am skeptical that Thomas will return and Brown won't. I feel like both players are similar risks for next year, or would like either on a cheap prove it contract, but hate that we have so much money tied up in Thomas with all the risk he has become. I know Thomas is younger so he has more upside if he becomes reliable again, but also his injury is worse and his bad conduct is more premeditated.

Ironically, one possible upside to signing Antonio Brown could be if he influences Michael Thomas to make more bad decisions, then we could get out of Michael Thomas' contract. Bunk him with Thomas and Peat please.
I give you credit bako. I was originally thinking our post was going to be pretty faulty to be honest. But I took time to think before I responded and Inwas
wrong. Although I still believe in CGM more than you do, you obviously got me thinking. I posted in another thread that The possibility of Thomas opposite brown with a chip on his shoulder against Ariens was “terrible”. Obviously that would be a great combo on paper. I just think some team will pay him more than a minimum contract.
Boston Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 01:13 PM   #12
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 2,173
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

I think Its unlikely that Michael Thomas will never play another snap. But I worry that when he comes back, the chronic injury issue and the unpredictable personality issue create a double threat to make his return brief and costly. The injury has been hard to heal so he could become the next cameron meredith or titan julio jones. Maybe Terrelle Pryor is another good analogy of a promising younger receiver whose career imploded after an ankle injury. But it seems like he has created more drama than AB had at a similar stage in their careers so he could also go the AB route. Combine the two and its also possible a bad attitude makes MT not want to rehab the best from injuries and the combination makes him an OBJ type who could be lightning in a bottle if he happens to be healthy and the franchise faces no adversity to sap his motivation, but paying about 20 million a year for lightning that mostly stays in the bottle is a bad value. I just hope we dont sign MT to any creative restructurings to free up money now that end up making the cap hit $50 million if he has to go later. Lets not tie up an extra cent and lets pay for this gamble year to year not use financing tricks to set a trap for ourselves in the future.

Originally Posted by neugey View Post
You do bring up a good point - MT's return from the ankle next season is not a given to me. Because of what we've seen so far, a part of me worries this becomes a career-ending ankle injury. That sounds very unusual, but given how much trouble the injury and recovery has been already, who knows? The odds seem like 1 in a million that an ankle would end his career, but a little part of me worries. Hopefully I'm overthinking it and they finally are treating this injury properly.
BakoSaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 01:27 PM   #13
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9,050
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

Originally Posted by Boston Saint View Post
Here is a comparison that may or may not be apt. I was all for the Saints Landing OBJ when he was available a few weeks back. As it turns out the Rams got him and he is doing very well there. OBJ seem like he was having problems in Cleveland and obviously wanted out and obviously they were more
than willing to accommodate him.

So, why is Brown so different? it’s obvious when you look at the list of “great” wide receivers through the leagues history there are more than a fair share of divas that have required special attention and demanded special recognition. Owens, Irvin, Keshawn Johnson, Steve Smith are just a few examples. There have also been guys like Rice and Calvin Johnson that just quietly got the job done. But having a Calvin Johnson type makeup is not unusual at all. Brown is not in legal trouble I believe (haven’t heard latest on his COVID passport). He apparently had issue with his coach. He’s hardly the first player to have that happen.
Yes but it’s Browns track record that makes it look so bad. Every player disagrees with their coach, and some vocalize it but all the guys you listed above didn’t walk off the field the way Brown did. I would go so far as to say Browns history is worse than any of the above. This goes beyond antics.
Rugby Saint II likes this.
The Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 01:27 PM   #14
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington, D.C
Posts: 2,887
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
I think Its unlikely that Michael Thomas will never play another snap. But I worry that when he comes back, the chronic injury issue and the unpredictable personality issue create a double threat to make his return brief and costly. The injury has been hard to heal so he could become the next cameron meredith or titan julio jones. Maybe Terrelle Pryor is another good analogy of a promising younger receiver whose career imploded after an ankle injury. But it seems like he has created more drama than AB had at a similar stage in their careers so he could also go the AB route. Combine the two and its also possible a bad attitude makes MT not want to rehab the best from injuries and the combination makes him an OBJ type who could be lightning in a bottle if he happens to be healthy and the franchise faces no adversity to sap his motivation, but paying about 20 million a year for lightning that mostly stays in the bottle is a bad value. I just hope we dont sign MT to any creative restructurings to free up money now that end up making the cap hit $50 million if he has to go later. Lets not tie up an extra cent and lets pay for this gamble year to year not use financing tricks to set a trap for ourselves in the future.
What chronic injury issue? What personality issue? If you guys want to play whats the worse that can happen or a big what if ok. Can we please stop making up stories with zero validity. Alot of you if not all of you jumped off board as soon as you found out he didnt get the surgery for reasons unknown. Now MT is a bad apple that might not be worth the bite? Youu guys said Cam Jordan was done you guys said MWilliams wasnt a playmaker in this league you guys said MDavenport was a bust......you see the pattern here topics make for good Saints gossip but thats about it the accuracy is far worse than Taysom Hill. He gets one ankle injury now we are questioning the career? what the hell is this? Didnt we try the AB thing out a year or two ago before the bucs? Who going to get him the ball? A WR rn does not change the Saints with Oline help and a decent QB not named Taysom Hill....Put some respect on MT you weren't crying when he went out there and played on bad ankle for Drew who threw the post season away with TO vs the Bucs. You guys think some of the players we have are that easily replaceable you are kidding yourself MT unless he requests trade is here and will be ready to next season have some d@mn optimism the same optimism you had thinking Drew would come back and play. Where is the reality Saints Forum Fantasy Island is little too much
Rell&Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 01:32 PM   #15
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bossier City, LA
Posts: 26,274
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold View Post
What chronic injury issue? What personality issue? If you guys want to play whats the worse that can happen or a big what if ok. Can we please stop making up stories with zero validity. Alot of you if not all of you jumped off board as soon as you found out he didnt get the surgery for reasons unknown. Now MT is a bad apple that might not be worth the bite? Youu guys said Cam Jordan was done you guys said MWilliams wasnt a playmaker in this league you guys said MDavenport was a bust......you see the pattern here topics make for good Saints gossip but thats about it the accuracy is far worse than Taysom Hill. He gets one ankle injury now we are questioning the career? what the hell is this? Didnt we try the AB thing out a year or two ago before the bucs? Who going to get him the ball? A WR rn does not change the Saints with Oline help and a decent QB not named Taysom Hill....Put some respect on MT you weren't crying when he went out there and played on bad ankle for Drew who threw the post season away with TO vs the Bucs. You guys think some of the players we have are that easily replaceable you are kidding yourself MT unless he requests trade is here and will be ready to next season have some d@mn optimism the same optimism you had thinking Drew would come back and play. Where is the reality Saints Forum Fantasy Island is little too much
Amen, and Amen!
AsylumGuido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 02:02 PM   #16
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 5,137
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
Yes but it’s Browns track record that makes it look so bad. Every player disagrees with their coach, and some vocalize it but all the guys you listed above didn’t walk off the field the way Brown did. I would go so far as to say Browns history is worse than any of the above. This goes beyond antics.
Again, plenty of guys had bad track records. Smith got into multiple fights with teammates. Owens got into an altercation with Jerry Rice of all people. You may be right in that others see it as quitting on the team. He is, again, hardly the first player to do so and wouldn’t be the first to redeem himself for doing so.
Boston Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 02:03 PM   #17
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kenner, LA
Posts: 7,935
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold View Post
What chronic injury issue? What personality issue? If you guys want to play whats the worse that can happen or a big what if ok. Can we please stop making up stories with zero validity. Alot of you if not all of you jumped off board as soon as you found out he didnt get the surgery for reasons unknown. Now MT is a bad apple that might not be worth the bite? Youu guys said Cam Jordan was done you guys said MWilliams wasnt a playmaker in this league you guys said MDavenport was a bust......you see the pattern here topics make for good Saints gossip but thats about it the accuracy is far worse than Taysom Hill. He gets one ankle injury now we are questioning the career? what the hell is this? Didnt we try the AB thing out a year or two ago before the bucs? Who going to get him the ball? A WR rn does not change the Saints with Oline help and a decent QB not named Taysom Hill....Put some respect on MT you weren't crying when he went out there and played on bad ankle for Drew who threw the post season away with TO vs the Bucs. You guys think some of the players we have are that easily replaceable you are kidding yourself MT unless he requests trade is here and will be ready to next season have some d@mn optimism the same optimism you had thinking Drew would come back and play. Where is the reality Saints Forum Fantasy Island is little too much
You said some real **** right here my boy.

In regards to Antonio Brown, if he played hurt for his team to the point where he couldn’t go anymore and the coach got mad about it and kicked him off the sideline then that coach is an *******. Antonio Brown doesn’t have a long track record of doing dumb **** on the field. His issues have mostly been centered around his personality. This outburst in the middle of a game is new territory, and it’s hard for me to believe he would do that unprovoked. Should he have done it that way? No. But if I’m a leader of men I know you have to handle each man differently.

Me: Go back out there AB.

AB: I can’t go anymore Coach.

Me: Okay AB. You need to get it checked out in the locker room?

AB: I’m not sure Coach.

Me: Go ahead and talk to the trainers and see what they want you to do. We want you healthy for the playoffs.

That’s how a leader refrains from escalating **** and starting an issue with somebody he already knows is hypersensitive. You gotta know how to handle folks and get the best out of em. Tomlin really did a hell of a job in retrospect.

"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael
rezburna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 02:20 PM   #18
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9,050
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold View Post
What chronic injury issue? What personality issue? If you guys want to play whats the worse that can happen or a big what if ok. Can we please stop making up stories with zero validity. Alot of you if not all of you jumped off board as soon as you found out he didnt get the surgery for reasons unknown. Now MT is a bad apple that might not be worth the bite? Youu guys said Cam Jordan was done you guys said MWilliams wasnt a playmaker in this league you guys said MDavenport was a bust......you see the pattern here topics make for good Saints gossip but thats about it the accuracy is far worse than Taysom Hill. He gets one ankle injury now we are questioning the career? what the hell is this? Didnt we try the AB thing out a year or two ago before the bucs? Who going to get him the ball? A WR rn does not change the Saints with Oline help and a decent QB not named Taysom Hill....Put some respect on MT you weren't crying when he went out there and played on bad ankle for Drew who threw the post season away with TO vs the Bucs. You guys think some of the players we have are that easily replaceable you are kidding yourself MT unless he requests trade is here and will be ready to next season have some d@mn optimism the same optimism you had thinking Drew would come back and play. Where is the reality Saints Forum Fantasy Island is little too much
It’s not the ankle injury that makes me think he may not be back. It’s the punches, social media outbursts, and the huge blowup with the coach in front of the entire roster. These are all huge red flags that suggest he may be headed down the same road as Brown. I hope I’m wrong.
Rugby Saint II likes this.
The Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 02:22 PM   #19
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 5,137
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold View Post
What chronic injury issue? What personality issue? If you guys want to play whats the worse that can happen or a big what if ok. Can we please stop making up stories with zero validity. Alot of you if not all of you jumped off board as soon as you found out he didnt get the surgery for reasons unknown. Now MT is a bad apple that might not be worth the bite? Youu guys said Cam Jordan was done you guys said MWilliams wasnt a playmaker in this league you guys said MDavenport was a bust......you see the pattern here topics make for good Saints gossip but thats about it the accuracy is far worse than Taysom Hill. He gets one ankle injury now we are questioning the career? what the hell is this? Didnt we try the AB thing out a year or two ago before the bucs? Who going to get him the ball? A WR rn does not change the Saints with Oline help and a decent QB not named Taysom Hill....Put some respect on MT you weren't crying when he went out there and played on bad ankle for Drew who threw the post season away with TO vs the Bucs. You guys think some of the players we have are that easily replaceable you are kidding yourself MT unless he requests trade is here and will be ready to next season have some d@mn optimism the same optimism you had thinking Drew would come back and play. Where is the reality Saints Forum Fantasy Island is little too much
You lumped a lot in there for one post and I agree with about 2/3rds of it. You lumping a person’s opinions of Davenport in with a person’s opinions about a WR discussion is a bit of a reach for example.

But Thomas has missed significant time. He also apparently caught the coaching staff blindsided with the way he handled his injury. He also got into a fight with a teammate and got suspended. He also is being paid top WR dollars to be a leader for the team. It’s hard to dispute those points. Weather or not it makes him a Antonio Brown remains to be seen. But to brush off people that point out those criticisms is a mistake IMO.

You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora
Boston Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 02:25 PM   #20
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 2,173
Re: Michael Thomas vs Antonio Brown

The french had optimism that the maginot line would hold. Optimism solves nothing. Realism wins. Realistically Michael Thomas got his first major pro injury, tried to come back and play through it but it lingered, got suspended for punching a teammate, was supposed to have offseason surgery, insisted on rehab instead, didnt follow through with rehab, ghosted the team all offseason, finally had the surgery, then had a setback, and had basically been out of the league two years, while posting frequent cryptic disgruntled tweets. Thomas is acting like a young Antonio Brown. To say there are no injury or character issues is to deny reality. If Michael Thomas has a side to the story he can tell it, but instead all he has done is punch a teammate and distract the team with cryptic tweets and delay medical care. And regardless of character, ankle issues that have lingered for two years are not a given to heal. Ask Terrelle Pryor. To win we need to be realistic and identify character and health issues and not throw good money after bad. Michael Thomas might return to form. If it doesnt cost much to find out, lets hope. But we need to have a backup plan and we need to not sink more big costs in risky players. If there is big risk, it needs to be cheap.

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold View Post
What chronic injury issue? What personality issue? If you guys want to play whats the worse that can happen or a big what if ok. Can we please stop making up stories with zero validity. Alot of you if not all of you jumped off board as soon as you found out he didnt get the surgery for reasons unknown. Now MT is a bad apple that might not be worth the bite? Youu guys said Cam Jordan was done you guys said MWilliams wasnt a playmaker in this league you guys said MDavenport was a bust......you see the pattern here topics make for good Saints gossip but thats about it the accuracy is far worse than Taysom Hill. He gets one ankle injury now we are questioning the career? what the hell is this? Didnt we try the AB thing out a year or two ago before the bucs? Who going to get him the ball? A WR rn does not change the Saints with Oline help and a decent QB not named Taysom Hill....Put some respect on MT you weren't crying when he went out there and played on bad ankle for Drew who threw the post season away with TO vs the Bucs. You guys think some of the players we have are that easily replaceable you are kidding yourself MT unless he requests trade is here and will be ready to next season have some d@mn optimism the same optimism you had thinking Drew would come back and play. Where is the reality Saints Forum Fantasy Island is little too much
BakoSaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Copyright 1997 - 2020 - BlackandGold.com
no new posts