AB is AWESOME!!!!!!!!

WhoDat · 09-20-2005, 12:06 PM

I don't get it.

I mean, I've been as big a critic of AB as anyone for a long time. Ask Saintfan. But Brooks did not suck yesterday and he hasn't sucked all season, short as it may be.

He's played 6 quarters of overwhelmingly good football. Then he's played two that were mistake prone. But even with the mistakes, this is the best I've seen AB play, maybe ever. So he threw an INT early on a deep out - happens to every QB in the league. The last INT was a total garbage INT, so does that really even count? Does it count more than Horn's fumble or Carney's miss? I don't think so.

The crossing route was bad but he was trying to make a play. Sure, take some heat off it AB. That one was his fault. AS was the fumble. In fact, they all were. AB regressed, mostly in the second half last night. He played sloppy mistake-riddled football. He has 9 negative plays in two games - that's way too many.

That said, AB has played better ball IMO. Yes, he absolutely needs to reduce the mistakes. No question. So does Brett Favre, so I'm not sure why he's getting such harsh criticism. Brooks hurt us a few times. But he helped more than any other player on the team other than probably Joe Horn.

That was a team loss. Putting it on AB is ignorant or biased, IMO. Sorry, that's just what I think.

saintswhodi · 09-20-2005, 12:26 PM

I'm sorry A) who are you and where is WhoDat? B) who put it on Brooks? I clearly stated the running game and its planning and execution were more at fault. That doesn't dismiss the normal AB up and down suckiness. I saw Mark Brunell throw two perfect strikes over the top to win for Washington, does AB EVER do that? Other QBs do that, why can't AB? He throws these lazers that cause the receivers to have to stop and ctach the ball instead of catching anything in stride. There was one play where Donte was crossing the middle and the announcers said he would have gone to the house if not for the lazer behind him. Yes AB has played some good ball, but like someone said, the timing of his mistakes is crucial in most losses. So people get more upset at the timing of these mistakes, more than the fact that they actually happen. So if the other QBs defense applies to throwing INTs, where is the other QBs do it defense for touch passes hitting receivers in stride allowing them to run after the catch?

He is not the only reason we lost, but he is one of the main ones.

CHACHING · 09-20-2005, 12:32 PM

I think WhoDat kinda nailed it....
I just think after last weeks showing(against a better D) we were hoping for a better display from AB..
Horn gets no Blame from me because of his effort.....did you see how he ran up and hugged 25 after the opening fumble.........dude is the s%$#!

saintswhodi · 09-20-2005, 12:34 PM

I just think after last weeks showing(against a better D) we were hoping for a better display from AB..

Exactly. I think you kinda nailed it.

WhoDat · 09-20-2005, 12:34 PM

So your basis for saying AB sucks is what exactly? That he can't make every throw? Lots of QBs can't make all the throws. Every QB has a strength and a weakness. The current Saints offense is geared towards timing and seam routes - those are throws you don't put air under. He had nice touch on his perfect pass to Conwell that dropped in over Conwell's outside shoulder, which, coincidentally, Conwell wasn't really even looking for.

Besides, your statement isn't linear. Bringing a team back or winning a game isn't based on being able to throw "over the top." The relevant question - has AB used his arm to bring the Saints back to win? The answer is yes, many times, including last week, no?

I understand fully the anger over the timing of AB's f ups. I've argued that point myself. All I'm saying is that AB didn't put us in a hole last night. He did help us climb out though. And then in the second half, HE didn't F up at inopportune times any more than basically everyone else on the team did.

I mean, put it on a per attempt basis. Horn had a good game right? He touched the ball, what, 10 times? And had 1 turnover. Brooks threw it 40 times and had 4. Seems like relatively the same ratio to me, no? So if AB f*&^s up at the wrong time, so does Horn I guess. Where's your Joe Horn sucks thread?

CHACHING · 09-20-2005, 12:39 PM

woah Whodat!......someone needs a cup of coffee and a bagel (or a BJ)
relax homie just discussing the game.......no fingers pointed..
...yet...

saintswhodi · 09-20-2005, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat

So your basis for saying AB sucks is what exactly? That he can't make every throw? Lots of QBs can't make all the throws. Every QB has a strength and a weakness. The current Saints offense is geared towards timing and seam routes - those are throws you don't put air under. He had nice touch on his perfect pass to Conwell that dropped in over Conwell's outside shoulder, which, coincidentally, Conwell wasn't really even looking for.

Besides, your statement isn't linear. Bringing a team back or winning a game isn't based on being able to throw "over the top." The relevant question - has AB used his arm to bring the Saints back to win? The answer is yes, many times, including last week, no?

I understand fully the anger over the timing of AB's f ups. I've argued that point myself. All I'm saying is that AB didn't put us in a hole last night. He did help us climb out though. And then in the second half, HE didn't F up at inopportune times any more than basically everyone else on the team did.

I mean, put it on a per attempt basis. Horn had a good game right? He touched the ball, what, 10 times? And had 1 turnover. Brooks threw it 40 times and had 4. Seems like relatively the same ratio to me, no? So if AB f*&^s up at the wrong time, so does Horn I guess. Where's your Joe Horn sucks thread?

One, Horn fumbled trying to make a play with less than 4 minutes left in a 17 point game. He reached for the goalline. Not quite the same as ending a drive in Giants territoy with an INT which led to points, and then fumbling away another drive, as well as trying to drill a hole through a guy 7-10 feet from you. Who cares if he can't make every throw? All I am saying is, don't use an all QBs throw INTs defense if you don't wanna similarly use a mostly all QBs can throw touch passes excuse.

And to say AB didn't put us INTO the hole is one thing, but he helped dig it deeper before trying to help us climb out. There are several reasons we lost that game, AB is one of them. If you see it differently, kudos. I don't. If it had just been two turnovers, from the QB position, that is too many. And yup, there are many QBs out there right now who have committed those same mistakes, doesn't make them any more or less acceptable than AB. As a matter of fact they are less acceptable coming from AB cause his F' ups leads to our losing. As has been the case for 4 years now. Give the guy all the breaks you want, not me. I accepted what he did last week as good game play, and I expect it to continue, no swing one direction to the other week to week.

saintswhodi · 09-20-2005, 01:03 PM

LMAO!! Okay. I told you after the first game the real Brooks was still in there. He came out a little in Carolina, and a little more in NY. Keep watching.

TheGambler · 09-20-2005, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat

So your basis for saying AB sucks is what exactly? That he can't make every throw? Lots of QBs can't make all the throws. Every QB has a strength and a weakness. The current Saints offense is geared towards timing and seam routes - those are throws you don't put air under. He had nice touch on his perfect pass to Conwell that dropped in over Conwell's outside shoulder, which, coincidentally, Conwell wasn't really even looking for.

Besides, your statement isn't linear. Bringing a team back or winning a game isn't based on being able to throw "over the top." The relevant question - has AB used his arm to bring the Saints back to win? The answer is yes, many times, including last week, no?

I understand fully the anger over the timing of AB's f ups. I've argued that point myself. All I'm saying is that AB didn't put us in a hole last night. He did help us climb out though. And then in the second half, HE didn't F up at inopportune times any more than basically everyone else on the team did.

I mean, put it on a per attempt basis. Horn had a good game right? He touched the ball, what, 10 times? And had 1 turnover. Brooks threw it 40 times and had 4. Seems like relatively the same ratio to me, no? So if AB f*&^s up at the wrong time, so does Horn I guess. Where's your Joe Horn sucks thread?

340 plus yards......several accurate throws......2 turnovers in garbage time..........

To answer your question, SaintsWhodi has NO basis for saying it. But watch him get really worked up while trying.

xan · 09-20-2005, 01:23 PM

On the first interception, 2nd and 15 after a holding penalty, Brooks' pass to Stallworth went into triple coverage and was underthrown. Replays showed that he didn't go through a progression to determine the best passing option. He was under pressure when he threw the pass.

On the fumble, 2nd and 6 from the NYG 44, Brooks appeared to lose concentration just after the snap. He had the opportunity to fall on the ball and take the loss, but tried to do what every idiot tries, and wound up kicking the ball up into the hands of Joseph. This may have been a pass play, but who knows.

On the second interception, Brooks got pressure up the middle. Horn and Stallworth were doing short crossing patterns. I couldn't tell by the replay, but the pass might have hit the field judge, but at any rate, neither receiver was in a position to catch the ball. There were 5 devenders in the immediate area.

The third interception was stooopid, but at that point, throwing behind Horn in a skinny post route with triple coverage and only 30 seconds to go was a meaningless play. There was no pressure on Brooks when the ball was released.

Of these 4 turnovers, there were no mitigating circumstances to deflect total blame to Brooks. Additionally, these turnovers were consistent with the mistakes Brooks has made in the past.

Brooks did make a few nice throws, but several, including the first catch by Horn (who was stunned he was the one to catch the ball), should have resulted in an interception as they were thrown into tight double and triple coverage.

It seems to me that this "simplified" offense is very predictable and does not require much thought by the QB. Fortunately, hand and glove fit nicely here.

09-20-2005, 12:06 PM	#11
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	I don't get it. I mean, I've been as big a critic of AB as anyone for a long time. Ask Saintfan. But Brooks did not suck yesterday and he hasn't sucked all season, short as it may be. He's played 6 quarters of overwhelmingly good football. Then he's played two that were mistake prone. But even with the mistakes, this is the best I've seen AB play, maybe ever. So he threw an INT early on a deep out - happens to every QB in the league. The last INT was a total garbage INT, so does that really even count? Does it count more than Horn's fumble or Carney's miss? I don't think so. The crossing route was bad but he was trying to make a play. Sure, take some heat off it AB. That one was his fault. AS was the fumble. In fact, they all were. AB regressed, mostly in the second half last night. He played sloppy mistake-riddled football. He has 9 negative plays in two games - that's way too many. That said, AB has played better ball IMO. Yes, he absolutely needs to reduce the mistakes. No question. So does Brett Favre, so I'm not sure why he's getting such harsh criticism. Brooks hurt us a few times. But he helped more than any other player on the team other than probably Joe Horn. That was a team loss. Putting it on AB is ignorant or biased, IMO. Sorry, that's just what I think.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

09-20-2005, 12:26 PM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I'm sorry A) who are you and where is WhoDat? B) who put it on Brooks? I clearly stated the running game and its planning and execution were more at fault. That doesn't dismiss the normal AB up and down suckiness. I saw Mark Brunell throw two perfect strikes over the top to win for Washington, does AB EVER do that? Other QBs do that, why can't AB? He throws these lazers that cause the receivers to have to stop and ctach the ball instead of catching anything in stride. There was one play where Donte was crossing the middle and the announcers said he would have gone to the house if not for the lazer behind him. Yes AB has played some good ball, but like someone said, the timing of his mistakes is crucial in most losses. So people get more upset at the timing of these mistakes, more than the fact that they actually happen. So if the other QBs defense applies to throwing INTs, where is the other QBs do it defense for touch passes hitting receivers in stride allowing them to run after the catch? He is not the only reason we lost, but he is one of the main ones.

09-20-2005, 12:34 PM	#15
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	So your basis for saying AB sucks is what exactly? That he can't make every throw? Lots of QBs can't make all the throws. Every QB has a strength and a weakness. The current Saints offense is geared towards timing and seam routes - those are throws you don't put air under. He had nice touch on his perfect pass to Conwell that dropped in over Conwell's outside shoulder, which, coincidentally, Conwell wasn't really even looking for. Besides, your statement isn't linear. Bringing a team back or winning a game isn't based on being able to throw "over the top." The relevant question - has AB used his arm to bring the Saints back to win? The answer is yes, many times, including last week, no? I understand fully the anger over the timing of AB's f ups. I've argued that point myself. All I'm saying is that AB didn't put us in a hole last night. He did help us climb out though. And then in the second half, HE didn't F up at inopportune times any more than basically everyone else on the team did. I mean, put it on a per attempt basis. Horn had a good game right? He touched the ball, what, 10 times? And had 1 turnover. Brooks threw it 40 times and had 4. Seems like relatively the same ratio to me, no? So if AB f*&^s up at the wrong time, so does Horn I guess. Where's your Joe Horn sucks thread?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

09-20-2005, 12:48 PM	#17
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by WhoDat So your basis for saying AB sucks is what exactly? That he can't make every throw? Lots of QBs can't make all the throws. Every QB has a strength and a weakness. The current Saints offense is geared towards timing and seam routes - those are throws you don't put air under. He had nice touch on his perfect pass to Conwell that dropped in over Conwell's outside shoulder, which, coincidentally, Conwell wasn't really even looking for. Besides, your statement isn't linear. Bringing a team back or winning a game isn't based on being able to throw "over the top." The relevant question - has AB used his arm to bring the Saints back to win? The answer is yes, many times, including last week, no? I understand fully the anger over the timing of AB's f ups. I've argued that point myself. All I'm saying is that AB didn't put us in a hole last night. He did help us climb out though. And then in the second half, HE didn't F up at inopportune times any more than basically everyone else on the team did. I mean, put it on a per attempt basis. Horn had a good game right? He touched the ball, what, 10 times? And had 1 turnover. Brooks threw it 40 times and had 4. Seems like relatively the same ratio to me, no? So if AB f*&^s up at the wrong time, so does Horn I guess. Where's your Joe Horn sucks thread? One, Horn fumbled trying to make a play with less than 4 minutes left in a 17 point game. He reached for the goalline. Not quite the same as ending a drive in Giants territoy with an INT which led to points, and then fumbling away another drive, as well as trying to drill a hole through a guy 7-10 feet from you. Who cares if he can't make every throw? All I am saying is, don't use an all QBs throw INTs defense if you don't wanna similarly use a mostly all QBs can throw touch passes excuse. And to say AB didn't put us INTO the hole is one thing, but he helped dig it deeper before trying to help us climb out. There are several reasons we lost that game, AB is one of them. If you see it differently, kudos. I don't. If it had just been two turnovers, from the QB position, that is too many. And yup, there are many QBs out there right now who have committed those same mistakes, doesn't make them any more or less acceptable than AB. As a matter of fact they are less acceptable coming from AB cause his F' ups leads to our losing. As has been the case for 4 years now. Give the guy all the breaks you want, not me. I accepted what he did last week as good game play, and I expect it to continue, no swing one direction to the other week to week.

09-20-2005, 01:07 PM	#19
TheGambler 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 610	Originally Posted by WhoDat So your basis for saying AB sucks is what exactly? That he can't make every throw? Lots of QBs can't make all the throws. Every QB has a strength and a weakness. The current Saints offense is geared towards timing and seam routes - those are throws you don't put air under. He had nice touch on his perfect pass to Conwell that dropped in over Conwell's outside shoulder, which, coincidentally, Conwell wasn't really even looking for. Besides, your statement isn't linear. Bringing a team back or winning a game isn't based on being able to throw "over the top." The relevant question - has AB used his arm to bring the Saints back to win? The answer is yes, many times, including last week, no? I understand fully the anger over the timing of AB's f ups. I've argued that point myself. All I'm saying is that AB didn't put us in a hole last night. He did help us climb out though. And then in the second half, HE didn't F up at inopportune times any more than basically everyone else on the team did. I mean, put it on a per attempt basis. Horn had a good game right? He touched the ball, what, 10 times? And had 1 turnover. Brooks threw it 40 times and had 4. Seems like relatively the same ratio to me, no? So if AB f*&^s up at the wrong time, so does Horn I guess. Where's your Joe Horn sucks thread? 340 plus yards......several accurate throws......2 turnovers in garbage time.......... To answer your question, SaintsWhodi has NO basis for saying it. But watch him get really worked up while trying.
TheGambler 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 610

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09-20-2005, 12:32 PM	#13
CHACHING 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Golden State Posts: 830	I think WhoDat kinda nailed it.... I just think after last weeks showing(against a better D) we were hoping for a better display from AB.. Horn gets no Blame from me because of his effort.....did you see how he ran up and hugged 25 after the opening fumble.........dude is the s%$#!

09-20-2005, 12:34 PM	#14
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I just think after last weeks showing(against a better D) we were hoping for a better display from AB.. Exactly. I think you kinda nailed it.

09-20-2005, 12:39 PM	#16
CHACHING 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Golden State Posts: 830	woah Whodat!......someone needs a cup of coffee and a bagel (or a BJ) relax homie just discussing the game.......no fingers pointed.. ...yet...

09-20-2005, 01:03 PM	#18
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	LMAO!! Okay. I told you after the first game the real Brooks was still in there. He came out a little in Carolina, and a little more in NY. Keep watching.

09-20-2005, 01:23 PM	#20
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	On the first interception, 2nd and 15 after a holding penalty, Brooks' pass to Stallworth went into triple coverage and was underthrown. Replays showed that he didn't go through a progression to determine the best passing option. He was under pressure when he threw the pass. On the fumble, 2nd and 6 from the NYG 44, Brooks appeared to lose concentration just after the snap. He had the opportunity to fall on the ball and take the loss, but tried to do what every idiot tries, and wound up kicking the ball up into the hands of Joseph. This may have been a pass play, but who knows. On the second interception, Brooks got pressure up the middle. Horn and Stallworth were doing short crossing patterns. I couldn't tell by the replay, but the pass might have hit the field judge, but at any rate, neither receiver was in a position to catch the ball. There were 5 devenders in the immediate area. The third interception was stooopid, but at that point, throwing behind Horn in a skinny post route with triple coverage and only 30 seconds to go was a meaningless play. There was no pressure on Brooks when the ball was released. Of these 4 turnovers, there were no mitigating circumstances to deflect total blame to Brooks. Additionally, these turnovers were consistent with the mistakes Brooks has made in the past. Brooks did make a few nice throws, but several, including the first catch by Horn (who was stunned he was the one to catch the ball), should have resulted in an interception as they were thrown into tight double and triple coverage. It seems to me that this "simplified" offense is very predictable and does not require much thought by the QB. Fortunately, hand and glove fit nicely here.