Head Coach Search

rezburna · 02-02-2022, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

And why is being a head coach the epitome of success in the NFL? Is it only related to pay?

How many total staff members of color are there in the entire NFL?

Are there enough coordinators? What about strength trainers? Communication directors?

I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach?

Boston Saint · 02-02-2022, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach?

That’s kind of the point though. I remember when there were no black QBs. That is not the case now and being black won’t hold a QB back at all now if he can play. That happened naturally through acceptance, not because the league tried to force black QBs onto teams through rules the way they are doing now and have been since the Rooney rule. In this case the coach is complaining because a team asked him in to meet a requirement. It sounds like he was fired in Miami for not tanking games rather than his race. Why would he have been hired in Miami at all if the organization is racist?

Rell&Gold · 02-07-2022, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

That’s kind of the point though. I remember when there were no black QBs. That is not the case now and being black won’t hold a QB back at all now if he can play. That happened naturally through acceptance, not because the league tried to force black QBs onto teams through rules the way they are doing now and have been since the Rooney rule. In this case the coach is complaining because a team asked him in to meet a requirement. It sounds like he was fired in Miami for not tanking games rather than his race. Why would he have been hired in Miami at all if the organization is racist?

The league hasn't accepted the fact that Black Coaches can coach? or they haven't accepted the fact like just like the sport Coaching would be majority persons of color if/once "It's Accepted" THATS RACISM in a nutshell. We know they can but can't accept what comes with that "A MAJORITY BLACK NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES"

Boston Saint · 02-07-2022, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

The league hasn't accepted the fact that Black Coaches can coach? or they haven't accepted the fact like just like the sport Coaching would be majority persons of color if/once "It's Accepted" THATS RACISM in a nutshell. We know they can but can't accept what comes with that "A MAJORITY BLACK NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES"

Sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying.

saintsfan1976 · 02-03-2022, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach?

We shouldn't assume every coach aspires to become a head coach. Since 1990, the average NFL HC tenure is just 4 seasons (link below). The pressure, the responsibility, the media.... It's not like it's a sweet gig man.

Pete Carmichael is a great example.

Link https://vikingsterritory.com/2020/ge...ans-for-zimmer

AsylumGuido · 02-03-2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

We shouldn't assume every coach aspires to become a head coach. Since 1990, the average NFL HC tenure is just 4 seasons (link below). The pressure, the responsibility, the media.... It's not like it's a sweet gig man.

Pete Carmichael is a great example.

Link https://vikingsterritory.com/2020/ge...ans-for-zimmer

Carmichael, however, has interviewed for multiple head coaching openings in the past. The Raiders, Packers, and the Saints among them. You are correct that not every coach that aspires to be a head coach has the makeup to be a success.

saintsfan1976 · 02-03-2022, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Carmichael, however, has interviewed for multiple head coaching openings in the past. The Raiders, Packers, and the Saints among them. You are correct that not every coach that aspires to be a head coach has the makeup to be a success.

Then why are we distilling it down to race

saintsfan1976 · 02-02-2022, 05:44 PM

And John Elway sounds like a drunk ******* but not necessarily a racist.

Boston Saint · 02-02-2022, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

And John Elway sounds like a drunk ******* but not necessarily a racist.

Exactly the way I see it.

Boston Saint · 02-03-2022, 08:41 AM

They are facing the reality that any rule/legislation/law made to promote equality by favoring one racial group over another is, by definition, unfair and unequal and will have consequences.

Flores “case” is proof of that. Because of the rule put in to try to artificially enforce an increase in black head coaches, Flores felt he was used as prop. Without the Rooney rule he may or may not have gotten a call from the Giants for an interview but he at least would have known if the interest was legit or a sham.

I also think the Giants should be able to hire whomever they want as HC (or anywhere else). Organizations that don’t want to take advantage of Black coaching talent would suffer the consequences. Long term successful organizations like the Steelers and Ravens whose coach/GM happen to be Black will take advantage and lead the way for others. But it is best to happen organically over time rather than by decree. Just like there are few Black Head coaches now, there were few Black QBs in the 70s and 80s when I grew up. Now, I don’t think there is any racial barrier for a Black QB and that happened naturally. The coaching situation will work itself out as well.

That’s just my opinions on things. I know it’s a touchy subject and I do not mean to offend anyone. Myself I want Winston back at QB and I’d by fine with Leftwich as a Head Coach, so I don’t think I have a bias. I would NOT want Flores though because it seems like he’s looking for one.

02-02-2022, 05:51 PM	#1
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,022	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 And why is being a head coach the epitome of success in the NFL? Is it only related to pay? How many total staff members of color are there in the entire NFL? Are there enough coordinators? What about strength trainers? Communication directors? I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach?
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

02-02-2022, 06:01 PM	#2
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by rezburna I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach? That’s kind of the point though. I remember when there were no black QBs. That is not the case now and being black won’t hold a QB back at all now if he can play. That happened naturally through acceptance, not because the league tried to force black QBs onto teams through rules the way they are doing now and have been since the Rooney rule. In this case the coach is complaining because a team asked him in to meet a requirement. It sounds like he was fired in Miami for not tanking games rather than his race. Why would he have been hired in Miami at all if the organization is racist?
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

02-07-2022, 12:28 PM	#3
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,891	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint That’s kind of the point though. I remember when there were no black QBs. That is not the case now and being black won’t hold a QB back at all now if he can play. That happened naturally through acceptance, not because the league tried to force black QBs onto teams through rules the way they are doing now and have been since the Rooney rule. In this case the coach is complaining because a team asked him in to meet a requirement. It sounds like he was fired in Miami for not tanking games rather than his race. Why would he have been hired in Miami at all if the organization is racist? The league hasn't accepted the fact that Black Coaches can coach? or they haven't accepted the fact like just like the sport Coaching would be majority persons of color if/once "It's Accepted" THATS RACISM in a nutshell. We know they can but can't accept what comes with that "A MAJORITY BLACK NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES"

02-07-2022, 12:45 PM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Rell&Gold The league hasn't accepted the fact that Black Coaches can coach? or they haven't accepted the fact like just like the sport Coaching would be majority persons of color if/once "It's Accepted" THATS RACISM in a nutshell. We know they can but can't accept what comes with that "A MAJORITY BLACK NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES" Sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying.

02-03-2022, 06:52 AM	#5
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,996 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by rezburna I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach? We shouldn't assume every coach aspires to become a head coach. Since 1990, the average NFL HC tenure is just 4 seasons (link below). The pressure, the responsibility, the media.... It's not like it's a sweet gig man. Pete Carmichael is a great example. Link https://vikingsterritory.com/2020/ge...ans-for-zimmer

02-03-2022, 08:13 AM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 We shouldn't assume every coach aspires to become a head coach. Since 1990, the average NFL HC tenure is just 4 seasons (link below). The pressure, the responsibility, the media.... It's not like it's a sweet gig man. Pete Carmichael is a great example. Link https://vikingsterritory.com/2020/ge...ans-for-zimmer Carmichael, however, has interviewed for multiple head coaching openings in the past. The Raiders, Packers, and the Saints among them. You are correct that not every coach that aspires to be a head coach has the makeup to be a success.

02-03-2022, 08:54 AM	#7
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,996 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Carmichael, however, has interviewed for multiple head coaching openings in the past. The Raiders, Packers, and the Saints among them. You are correct that not every coach that aspires to be a head coach has the makeup to be a success. Then why are we distilling it down to race

02-02-2022, 05:44 PM	#8
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,996 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Head Coach Search And John Elway sounds like a drunk ******* but not necessarily a racist.

02-02-2022, 05:48 PM	#9
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 And John Elway sounds like a drunk ******* but not necessarily a racist. Exactly the way I see it.

02-03-2022, 08:41 AM	#10
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search They are facing the reality that any rule/legislation/law made to promote equality by favoring one racial group over another is, by definition, unfair and unequal and will have consequences. Flores “case” is proof of that. Because of the rule put in to try to artificially enforce an increase in black head coaches, Flores felt he was used as prop. Without the Rooney rule he may or may not have gotten a call from the Giants for an interview but he at least would have known if the interest was legit or a sham. I also think the Giants should be able to hire whomever they want as HC (or anywhere else). Organizations that don’t want to take advantage of Black coaching talent would suffer the consequences. Long term successful organizations like the Steelers and Ravens whose coach/GM happen to be Black will take advantage and lead the way for others. But it is best to happen organically over time rather than by decree. Just like there are few Black Head coaches now, there were few Black QBs in the 70s and 80s when I grew up. Now, I don’t think there is any racial barrier for a Black QB and that happened naturally. The coaching situation will work itself out as well. That’s just my opinions on things. I know it’s a touchy subject and I do not mean to offend anyone. Myself I want Winston back at QB and I’d by fine with Leftwich as a Head Coach, so I don’t think I have a bias. I would NOT want Flores though because it seems like he’s looking for one.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora