Head Coach Search

rezburna · 02-02-2022, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

If it shook down that way I understand his feeling slighted, but that makes the rule racist not the teams and the way they treated him because of the rule. This outcome was totally predictable when you try to force acceptance rather than let it happen naturally. If teams are too stupid to interview potential coaches simply because they are black then they are missing out on a tremendous resource and their on field product will show it.

The litigation was created to at least get Black coaches a chance to be interviewed because there was a time when even that wasn’t happening. The hope was GM’s and owners would recognize that they are missing out on valuable resources and maybe we’d see a change. This has not been the result as we all know since Tomlin is the only Black coach in the NFL and Flores got fired after two back to back winning seasons for a franchise that hasn’t had that happen in well over a decade.

Boston Saint · 02-02-2022, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

And John Elway sounds like a drunk ******* but not necessarily a racist.

Exactly the way I see it.

rezburna · 02-02-2022, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

And why is being a head coach the epitome of success in the NFL? Is it only related to pay?

How many total staff members of color are there in the entire NFL?

Are there enough coordinators? What about strength trainers? Communication directors?

I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach?

Boston Saint · 02-02-2022, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach?

That’s kind of the point though. I remember when there were no black QBs. That is not the case now and being black won’t hold a QB back at all now if he can play. That happened naturally through acceptance, not because the league tried to force black QBs onto teams through rules the way they are doing now and have been since the Rooney rule. In this case the coach is complaining because a team asked him in to meet a requirement. It sounds like he was fired in Miami for not tanking games rather than his race. Why would he have been hired in Miami at all if the organization is racist?

Rell&Gold · 02-02-2022, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

So, the owner or whatever wanted him to tank for a better draft pick. Then, another team’s coach mistakenly calls him to congratulate him when another guy got the job. Maybe Im just not getting it, but where is the racial component? He WAS hired as a head coach, right?

You think he is making the racism thing up??? I'm confused

Rell&Gold · 02-02-2022, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I don’t see anything here indicating this person was treated in any way negatively specifically because he was black. Just my opinion. The most glaring “racial” issue I see brought up is that black players are over represented at 70%. If the league was serious about “equity” then there would be a move to increase Asian, Hispanic, and White players.

Treat this guy how you treat guys treat Guido or is Guido the only one who can be chastised for comments seen as unfavorable??? Like what are you getting at?

halloween 65 · 02-02-2022, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

If it shook down that way I understand his feeling slighted, but that makes the rule racist not the teams and the way they treated him because of the rule. This outcome was totally predictable when you try to force acceptance rather than let it happen naturally. If teams are too stupid to interview potential coaches simply because they are black then they are missing out on a tremendous resource and their on field product will show it.

I've got to agree with you. If I owned a business ( wheather I was of any origin) and was( made) (key word) to interview anyone of different origin before I hire someone that was qualified to fill the position, it's plain and simple racist. I think Caldwell(black coach) fits the bill perfectly here. I'm a white guy but believe if any origin would be better in this case a HC I'm good with it. But the Rooney rule is totally prejudice and just another divider in race.

saintfan · 02-02-2022, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

Treat this guy how you treat guys treat Guido or is Guido the only one who can be chastised for comments seen as unfavorable??? Like what are you getting at?

Speedo has a very long history of race-baiting and making personal attacks on other members.

We all get chippy from time to time. We are here to discuss, debate, and even argue. We're a family here. Speedo goes out of his way to attack people across threads for no other reason than his ego. Speedo doesn't understand the art of allowing someone to have his/her own opinion. He wants to play with the big boys but he doesn't know how.

Speedo is currently eating his own dog food, so to speak. All he ever had to do was stop, as far back as 3+ years ago when I asked him to, and as recently as last September when I warned him, finally, to stop personally attacking folks else he get was he gives in magnitudes. Here we are.

The moment speedo owns it is the moment it stops. Right now he's too busy trying to divide the board and convince the unwashed that he's some sort of victim. He's far from that.

Y'all carry on...

Rell&Gold · 02-02-2022, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Speedo has a very long history of race-baiting and making personal attacks on other members.

We all get chippy from time to time. We are here to discuss, debate, and even argue. We're a family here. Speedo goes out of his way to attack people across threads for no other reason than his ego.

Speedo is currently eating his own dog food, so to speak. All he ever had to do was stop, as far back as 3+ years ago when I asked him to, and as recently as last September when I warned him, finally, to stop personally attacking folks.

The moment speedo owns it is the moment it stops.

Y'all carry on...

Right is Right Wrong is Wrong Saint. To sit up here and deny the obvious or make insinuations that deny the obvious discrimination in the NFL amongst black coaches is insane. I'm not saying you are doing that but to ANY member that is don't leave no stone unturned. I don't think nobody questions the blatant disdain Goodell has toward the Saints but will sit up here and act as if racism in the NFL a made-up illusion of some sort is something that also shouldn't be allowed.

saintfan · 02-02-2022, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

Right is Right Wrong is Wrong Saint. To sit up here and deny the obvious or make insinuations that deny the obvious discrimination in the NFL amongst black coaches is insane. I'm not saying you are doing that but to ANY member that is don't leave no stone unturned. I don't think nobody questions the blatant disdain Goodell has toward the Saints but will sit up here and act as if racism in the NFL a made-up illusion of some sort is something that also shouldn't be allowed.

110% agree. Racism is very real, and frankly I hope Flores is able to keep coaching. Unlikely that he'll win much the deck is almost hopelessly stacked against him but who knows - lawyers are tricky ****ers.

We should hire him. He did a hell of a job with Miami, and now we know why they showed him the door. I want him that much more cause it seems he has no problem telling a nefarious actor to go

himself at his own peril. I respect the **** out of that.

02-02-2022, 06:48 PM	#201
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint If it shook down that way I understand his feeling slighted, but that makes the rule racist not the teams and the way they treated him because of the rule. This outcome was totally predictable when you try to force acceptance rather than let it happen naturally. If teams are too stupid to interview potential coaches simply because they are black then they are missing out on a tremendous resource and their on field product will show it. The litigation was created to at least get Black coaches a chance to be interviewed because there was a time when even that wasn’t happening. The hope was GM’s and owners would recognize that they are missing out on valuable resources and maybe we’d see a change. This has not been the result as we all know since Tomlin is the only Black coach in the NFL and Flores got fired after two back to back winning seasons for a franchise that hasn’t had that happen in well over a decade. RailBoss and Rell&Gold like this.

02-02-2022, 06:48 PM	#202
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 And John Elway sounds like a drunk ******* but not necessarily a racist. Exactly the way I see it.

02-02-2022, 06:51 PM	#203
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 And why is being a head coach the epitome of success in the NFL? Is it only related to pay? How many total staff members of color are there in the entire NFL? Are there enough coordinators? What about strength trainers? Communication directors? I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach? leilung, saintsfan1976 and Rell&Gold like this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

02-02-2022, 07:01 PM	#204
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by rezburna I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach? That’s kind of the point though. I remember when there were no black QBs. That is not the case now and being black won’t hold a QB back at all now if he can play. That happened naturally through acceptance, not because the league tried to force black QBs onto teams through rules the way they are doing now and have been since the Rooney rule. In this case the coach is complaining because a team asked him in to meet a requirement. It sounds like he was fired in Miami for not tanking games rather than his race. Why would he have been hired in Miami at all if the organization is racist? turbo_dog likes this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

02-02-2022, 07:47 PM	#205
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint So, the owner or whatever wanted him to tank for a better draft pick. Then, another team’s coach mistakenly calls him to congratulate him when another guy got the job. Maybe Im just not getting it, but where is the racial component? He WAS hired as a head coach, right? You think he is making the racism thing up??? I'm confused

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02-02-2022, 07:51 PM	#206
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint I don’t see anything here indicating this person was treated in any way negatively specifically because he was black. Just my opinion. The most glaring “racial” issue I see brought up is that black players are over represented at 70%. If the league was serious about “equity” then there would be a move to increase Asian, Hispanic, and White players. Treat this guy how you treat guys treat Guido or is Guido the only one who can be chastised for comments seen as unfavorable??? Like what are you getting at?

02-02-2022, 07:57 PM	#207
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint If it shook down that way I understand his feeling slighted, but that makes the rule racist not the teams and the way they treated him because of the rule. This outcome was totally predictable when you try to force acceptance rather than let it happen naturally. If teams are too stupid to interview potential coaches simply because they are black then they are missing out on a tremendous resource and their on field product will show it. I've got to agree with you. If I owned a business ( wheather I was of any origin) and was( made) (key word) to interview anyone of different origin before I hire someone that was qualified to fill the position, it's plain and simple racist. I think Caldwell(black coach) fits the bill perfectly here. I'm a white guy but believe if any origin would be better in this case a HC I'm good with it. But the Rooney rule is totally prejudice and just another divider in race.

02-02-2022, 07:58 PM	#208
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Rell&Gold Treat this guy how you treat guys treat Guido or is Guido the only one who can be chastised for comments seen as unfavorable??? Like what are you getting at? Speedo has a very long history of race-baiting and making personal attacks on other members. We all get chippy from time to time. We are here to discuss, debate, and even argue. We're a family here. Speedo goes out of his way to attack people across threads for no other reason than his ego. Speedo doesn't understand the art of allowing someone to have his/her own opinion. He wants to play with the big boys but he doesn't know how. Speedo is currently eating his own dog food, so to speak. All he ever had to do was stop, as far back as 3+ years ago when I asked him to, and as recently as last September when I warned him, finally, to stop personally attacking folks else he get was he gives in magnitudes. Here we are. The moment speedo owns it is the moment it stops. Right now he's too busy trying to divide the board and convince the unwashed that he's some sort of victim. He's far from that. Y'all carry on... iceshack149 likes this.
	C'mon Man...

02-02-2022, 08:04 PM	#209
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintfan Speedo has a very long history of race-baiting and making personal attacks on other members. We all get chippy from time to time. We are here to discuss, debate, and even argue. We're a family here. Speedo goes out of his way to attack people across threads for no other reason than his ego. Speedo is currently eating his own dog food, so to speak. All he ever had to do was stop, as far back as 3+ years ago when I asked him to, and as recently as last September when I warned him, finally, to stop personally attacking folks. The moment speedo owns it is the moment it stops. Y'all carry on... Right is Right Wrong is Wrong Saint. To sit up here and deny the obvious or make insinuations that deny the obvious discrimination in the NFL amongst black coaches is insane. I'm not saying you are doing that but to ANY member that is don't leave no stone unturned. I don't think nobody questions the blatant disdain Goodell has toward the Saints but will sit up here and act as if racism in the NFL a made-up illusion of some sort is something that also shouldn't be allowed.

02-02-2022, 08:09 PM	#210
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Rell&Gold Right is Right Wrong is Wrong Saint. To sit up here and deny the obvious or make insinuations that deny the obvious discrimination in the NFL amongst black coaches is insane. I'm not saying you are doing that but to ANY member that is don't leave no stone unturned. I don't think nobody questions the blatant disdain Goodell has toward the Saints but will sit up here and act as if racism in the NFL a made-up illusion of some sort is something that also shouldn't be allowed. 110% agree. Racism is very real, and frankly I hope Flores is able to keep coaching. Unlikely that he'll win much the deck is almost hopelessly stacked against him but who knows - lawyers are tricky **ers. We should hire him. He did a hell of a job with Miami, and now we know why they showed him the door. I want him that much more cause it seems he has no problem telling a nefarious actor to go himself at his own peril. I respect the ** out of that.