Head Coach Search

AsylumGuido · 02-03-2022, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

But that is not the fault of the organization but rather the rule they are made to follow. The gripe is against the rule that was put in place to “fix” the inequity that is believed Black candidates face. It’s a catch 22.

Yup. The rule definitely has its faults. That's for sure. But it is the fault of the organization if they ignore the rule altogether as has been a point of complaint for years, don't you think?

If a rule states that an employer must interview two applicants prior to hiring either of them, and the employer hires the first interviewee prior to holding an interview with the other has the employer violated the rule? Yes or no?

AsylumGuido · 02-03-2022, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

LOL. It just struck me that we're debating Millionaires fighting with Billionaires.

Geez man...

I need to go drop food off to parents with children who are hungry because our government killed their jobs and thinks $300 a month will cut it.

Peace out yall

Definitely!

Boston Saint · 02-03-2022, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Yup. The rule definitely has its faults. That's for sure. But it is the fault of the organization if they ignore the rule altogether as has been a point of complaint for years, don't you think?

If a rule states that an employer must interview two applicants prior to hiring either of them, and the employer hires the first interviewee prior to holding an interview with the other has the employer violated the rule? Yes or no?

I’m guessing nothing was signed, so no “hire” was made. This mainly all supposedly started on a Belichick call/text, right? That’s not evidence of hire. I’ve interviewed people and said “you look like our hire” and changed my mind.

Maybe the Giants new 99% sure who they wanted and there were 9 other teams looking for coaches as well and wanted to see him too, so they felt they had to act. Doesn’t mean the rule was broken; ESPECIALLY not because of racial reasons.

AsylumGuido · 02-03-2022, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I’m guessing nothing was signed, so no “hire” was made. This mainly all supposedly started on a Belichick call/text, right? That’s not evidence of hire. I’ve interviewed people and said “you look like our hire” and changed my mind.

Maybe the Giants new 99% sure who they wanted and there were 9 other teams looking for coaches as well and wanted to see him too, so they felt they had to act. Doesn’t mean the rule was broken; ESPECIALLY not because of racial reasons.

Absolutely. As long as they didn't act before the interview they would be in the clear for sure. And none of that can be solved one way or another in a football forum. That's what the courts are for, right?

Oh, by the way, verbal agreements can be binding in New Jersey, as can text messages, emails, and other forms of electronic communication in most every state these days. Of course, when I had all of my business law courses back in the day we were limited to telephone and snail mail. LOL!

New Jersey Contract Law: Everything You Need to Know

This tiny part of the lawsuit is just the tip of the iceberg. It's going to be very interesting what all comes to light over the next few months as others begin to join the litigation.

rezburna · 02-03-2022, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Then why are we distilling it down to race

It’s distilling down to race because Black coaches are saying they want to be head coaches. Black executives are saying they want to be GM’s and Presidents. Black billionaires, the VERY short list of them that exist in this country, are saying they want ownership of teams. The NBA at least has multiple Black coaches and GM’s. I know Jordan owns the Hornets. Again, it’s being distilled down to race because Black people are saying, “Hey, help us out. We want these positions too. We can do more than just the manual labor on the field.” The response should be let’s figure out a way to help these brothers out, not looking for any way to shift the conversation off race and delegitimize the argument in its entirety. Now where I definitely agree is this: these owners can do what they want. If they want their coaching staff to be all White that’s cool. They should be able to do that, and the players have to grow balls and take a stand and say they won’t play for organizations that don’t prioritize putting the demographic that makes the NFL run in positions of power.

Boston Saint · 02-03-2022, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

It’s distilling down to race because Black coaches are saying they want to be head coaches. Black executives are saying they want to be GM’s and Presidents. Black billionaires, the VERY short list of them that exist in this country, are saying they want ownership of teams. The NBA at least has multiple Black coaches and GM’s. I know Jordan owns the Hornets. Again, it’s being distilled down to race because Black people are saying, “Hey, help us out. We want these positions too. We can do more than just the manual labor on the field.” The response should be let’s figure out a way to help these brothers out, not looking for any way to shift the conversation off race and delegitimize the argument in its entirety. Now where I definitely agree is this: these owners can do what they want. If they want their coaching staff to be all White that’s cool. They should be able to do that, and the players have to grow balls and take a stand and say they won’t play for organizations that don’t prioritize putting the demographic that makes the NFL run in positions of power.

That’s true rez but there are a lot of White, Asian, Hispanics, etc that want to be head coaches and GMs and Owners too. Plenty of Black guys became HCs like Dungy, Green, Smith Edwards etc. There is a pathway. Should Gail Benson be forced to sell the Saints to a Black owner? Why not an Asian owner? Jerry Jones, who greatly contributed to the Cowboy’s wealth and the overall league success can’t leave the team to his children? Want is not enough reason to be given something.

Budsdrinker · 02-03-2022, 11:45 AM

Here's my 2 cents. Hire the best candidate regardless of race. The only problem I have with Flores, is if this tanking proposal happened in 2019, why wait until after you're fired in 2022 to voice your concern.

saintfan · 02-03-2022, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

Here's my 2 cents. Hire the best candidate regardless of race. The only problem I have with Flores, is if this tanking proposal happened in 2019, why wait until after you're fired in 2022 to voice your concern.

Could be because he knows 'tanking' for a draft pick is business as usual in the NFL. Similar to the 'bounty' the Saints allegedly implemented. What we fans are privy to on NFL Radio is hardly a complete representation of what's really going on.

rezburna · 02-03-2022, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

That’s true rez but there are a lot of White, Asian, Hispanics, etc that want to be head coaches and GMs and Owners too. Plenty of Black guys became HCs like Dungy, Green, Smith Edwards etc. There is a pathway. Should Gail Benson be forced to sell the Saints to a Black owner? Why not an Asian owner? Jerry Jones, who greatly contributed to the Cowboy’s wealth and the overall league success can’t leave the team to his children? Want is not enough reason to be given something.

It’s not the Black community’s responsibility to always have to lead the charge for everybody else. If Asian people want more representation in the league then they need to be just as vocal about it as we are. The same goes for Hispanic coaches. White coaches are already well represented and always have been at every level of the organizational structure. The fact of the matter is our freedom struggles always open the door for everyone else. The Civil Rights Movement benefitted all minorities because the legislation made sure to include them. I’m sure anything moving forward will benefit Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, and women despite the fact that’s it’s Black men catching all the heat.

K Major · 02-03-2022, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

What we fans are privy to on NFL Radio is hardly a complete representation of what's really going on.

Precisely.

02-03-2022, 09:29 AM	#231
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,470	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint But that is not the fault of the organization but rather the rule they are made to follow. The gripe is against the rule that was put in place to “fix” the inequity that is believed Black candidates face. It’s a catch 22. Yup. The rule definitely has its faults. That's for sure. But it is the fault of the organization if they ignore the rule altogether as has been a point of complaint for years, don't you think? If a rule states that an employer must interview two applicants prior to hiring either of them, and the employer hires the first interviewee prior to holding an interview with the other has the employer violated the rule? Yes or no?

02-03-2022, 09:31 AM	#232
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,470	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 LOL. It just struck me that we're debating Millionaires fighting with Billionaires. Geez man... I need to go drop food off to parents with children who are hungry because our government killed their jobs and thinks $300 a month will cut it. Peace out yall Definitely!

02-03-2022, 09:37 AM	#233
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,894	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Yup. The rule definitely has its faults. That's for sure. But it is the fault of the organization if they ignore the rule altogether as has been a point of complaint for years, don't you think? If a rule states that an employer must interview two applicants prior to hiring either of them, and the employer hires the first interviewee prior to holding an interview with the other has the employer violated the rule? Yes or no? I’m guessing nothing was signed, so no “hire” was made. This mainly all supposedly started on a Belichick call/text, right? That’s not evidence of hire. I’ve interviewed people and said “you look like our hire” and changed my mind. Maybe the Giants new 99% sure who they wanted and there were 9 other teams looking for coaches as well and wanted to see him too, so they felt they had to act. Doesn’t mean the rule was broken; ESPECIALLY not because of racial reasons. jnormand likes this.

02-03-2022, 09:59 AM	#234
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,470	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint I’m guessing nothing was signed, so no “hire” was made. This mainly all supposedly started on a Belichick call/text, right? That’s not evidence of hire. I’ve interviewed people and said “you look like our hire” and changed my mind. Maybe the Giants new 99% sure who they wanted and there were 9 other teams looking for coaches as well and wanted to see him too, so they felt they had to act. Doesn’t mean the rule was broken; ESPECIALLY not because of racial reasons. Absolutely. As long as they didn't act before the interview they would be in the clear for sure. And none of that can be solved one way or another in a football forum. That's what the courts are for, right? Oh, by the way, verbal agreements can be binding in New Jersey, as can text messages, emails, and other forms of electronic communication in most every state these days. Of course, when I had all of my business law courses back in the day we were limited to telephone and snail mail. LOL! New Jersey Contract Law: Everything You Need to Know This tiny part of the lawsuit is just the tip of the iceberg. It's going to be very interesting what all comes to light over the next few months as others begin to join the litigation.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-03-2022, 10:50 AM	#235
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,683	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Then why are we distilling it down to race It’s distilling down to race because Black coaches are saying they want to be head coaches. Black executives are saying they want to be GM’s and Presidents. Black billionaires, the VERY short list of them that exist in this country, are saying they want ownership of teams. The NBA at least has multiple Black coaches and GM’s. I know Jordan owns the Hornets. Again, it’s being distilled down to race because Black people are saying, “Hey, help us out. We want these positions too. We can do more than just the manual labor on the field.” The response should be let’s figure out a way to help these brothers out, not looking for any way to shift the conversation off race and delegitimize the argument in its entirety. Now where I definitely agree is this: these owners can do what they want. If they want their coaching staff to be all White that’s cool. They should be able to do that, and the players have to grow balls and take a stand and say they won’t play for organizations that don’t prioritize putting the demographic that makes the NFL run in positions of power. saintsfan1976, AsylumGuido and Boston Saint like this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

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02-03-2022, 11:23 AM	#236
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,894	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by rezburna It’s distilling down to race because Black coaches are saying they want to be head coaches. Black executives are saying they want to be GM’s and Presidents. Black billionaires, the VERY short list of them that exist in this country, are saying they want ownership of teams. The NBA at least has multiple Black coaches and GM’s. I know Jordan owns the Hornets. Again, it’s being distilled down to race because Black people are saying, “Hey, help us out. We want these positions too. We can do more than just the manual labor on the field.” The response should be let’s figure out a way to help these brothers out, not looking for any way to shift the conversation off race and delegitimize the argument in its entirety. Now where I definitely agree is this: these owners can do what they want. If they want their coaching staff to be all White that’s cool. They should be able to do that, and the players have to grow balls and take a stand and say they won’t play for organizations that don’t prioritize putting the demographic that makes the NFL run in positions of power. That’s true rez but there are a lot of White, Asian, Hispanics, etc that want to be head coaches and GMs and Owners too. Plenty of Black guys became HCs like Dungy, Green, Smith Edwards etc. There is a pathway. Should Gail Benson be forced to sell the Saints to a Black owner? Why not an Asian owner? Jerry Jones, who greatly contributed to the Cowboy’s wealth and the overall league success can’t leave the team to his children? Want is not enough reason to be given something. iceshack149, jnormand and SmashMouth like this.

02-03-2022, 11:45 AM	#237
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Head Coach Search Here's my 2 cents. Hire the best candidate regardless of race. The only problem I have with Flores, is if this tanking proposal happened in 2019, why wait until after you're fired in 2022 to voice your concern. jnormand, SmashMouth and jeanpierre like this.

02-03-2022, 11:50 AM	#238
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Budsdrinker Here's my 2 cents. Hire the best candidate regardless of race. The only problem I have with Flores, is if this tanking proposal happened in 2019, why wait until after you're fired in 2022 to voice your concern. Could be because he knows 'tanking' for a draft pick is business as usual in the NFL. Similar to the 'bounty' the Saints allegedly implemented. What we fans are privy to on NFL Radio is hardly a complete representation of what's really going on. iceshack149, jnormand, MatthewT and 2 others like this.

02-03-2022, 01:14 PM	#239
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,683	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint That’s true rez but there are a lot of White, Asian, Hispanics, etc that want to be head coaches and GMs and Owners too. Plenty of Black guys became HCs like Dungy, Green, Smith Edwards etc. There is a pathway. Should Gail Benson be forced to sell the Saints to a Black owner? Why not an Asian owner? Jerry Jones, who greatly contributed to the Cowboy’s wealth and the overall league success can’t leave the team to his children? Want is not enough reason to be given something. It’s not the Black community’s responsibility to always have to lead the charge for everybody else. If Asian people want more representation in the league then they need to be just as vocal about it as we are. The same goes for Hispanic coaches. White coaches are already well represented and always have been at every level of the organizational structure. The fact of the matter is our freedom struggles always open the door for everyone else. The Civil Rights Movement benefitted all minorities because the legislation made sure to include them. I’m sure anything moving forward will benefit Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, and women despite the fact that’s it’s Black men catching all the heat. AsylumGuido likes this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

02-03-2022, 01:49 PM	#240
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,078 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintfan What we fans are privy to on NFL Radio is hardly a complete representation of what's really going on. Precisely. AsylumGuido and jeanpierre like this.