Captain Checkdown: The quarterbacks who most and least rely on checkdown passes

AsylumGuido · 06-02-2022, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like Winston doesn't check down very well. He doesn't have enough touch to the ball and he zips it with too much velocity.Maybe it's because I still see Kamara making circus catches on a simple check down.

Originally Posted by SaintGnome

I think he takes too long making the check down decision and it makes him rush the throw.

I don't think we have truly seen what he is currently capable of doing. I feel that basing whatever we saw from his time in Tampa must be taken with a grain of salt. He was never asked to "check down", but rather to constantly go for the big play, in other words, "no risk it, no biscuit". He has now had two years learning from Payton and/or Brees. In his brief stint last season he had no fewer than two starting offensive linemen missing every game and just like the rest of our QB's didn't have a tremendous amount of time to throw the ball.

jeanpierre · 06-02-2022, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like Winston doesn't check down very well. He doesn't have enough touch to the ball and he zips it with too much velocity.Maybe it's because I still see Kamara making circus catches on a simple check down.

Originally Posted by SaintGnome

I think he takes too long making the check down decision and it makes him rush the throw.

Believe y'all's analysis is well-worded; his apologists will say he's not had enough time in the Saints System, but five years in Tampa, plus this is his third season with the Saints...

Am curious how many years, games of this great roster must be wasted before we go to another option at QB should this not play out as well as some hope?

Gonna sit back, support Saints Football, let rightly earned praise, criticisms fall accordingly, call BS, question as season moves along, and see how QB1 progresses or digresses...

AsylumGuido · 06-02-2022, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Believe y'all's analysis is well-worded; his apologists will say he's not had enough time in the Saints System, but five years in Tampa, plus this is his third season with the Saints...

Am curious how many years, games of this great roster must be wasted before we go to another option at QB should this not shake out well?

Gonna sit back, support the Saints, let rightly earned praise, criticisms fall accordingly, call BS, question same as season moves along, and see how he progresses or digresses...

I believe Winston has had plenty of time in the Saints system, but has yet to have a legitimate chance to show what he has absorbed. He'll now be getting that well earned chance. No more being thrown under the bus schematically by the vastly over-rated Bruce "No risk it, no biscuit" Arians. No more trying to always having to play catch up with the 31st (2018) and 29nd (2019) ranked scoring defenses in the NFL letting him down game after game.

SaintGnome · 06-02-2022, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I don't think we have truly seen what he is currently capable of doing. I feel that basing whatever we saw from his time in Tampa must be taken with a grain of salt. He was never asked to "check down", but rather to constantly go for the big play, in other words, "no risk it, no biscuit". He has now had two years learning from Payton and/or Brees. In his brief stint last season he had no fewer than two starting offensive linemen missing every game and just like the rest of our QB's didn't have a tremendous amount of time to throw the ball.

I didn't say he couldn't get or be better, just what I've observed (rightly or wrongly) in the sample size we have.
I mentioned on another post Winston should be brought along slowly. If I was PC I'd tell JW to go progression #1, #2, then go directly to checkdown. If check down is not there, TAKE THE SACK, and live another day. If he gets good at that and the protection is there then go through more progressions.

AsylumGuido · 06-02-2022, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by SaintGnome

I didn't say he couldn't get or be better, just what I've observed (rightly or wrongly) in the sample size we have.
I mentioned on another post Winston should be brought along slowly. If I was PC I'd tell JW to go progression #1, #2, then go directly to checkdown. If check down is not there, TAKE THE SACK, and live another day. If he gets good at that and the protection is there then go through more progressions.

Agree with the sample size.

If Pete Carmichael is aware as I think he is he should be able to ascertain Winston's capabilities of handling the progressions facing arguably the best defense in the league in practice. I doubt he's going to see anything more capable once the season starts.

Of course, I may be wrong, but I fully expect Winston and the Saints offense to be rolling right off the bat.

06-02-2022, 12:52 PM	#11
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Captain Checkdown: The quarterbacks who most and least rely on checkdown passes Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like Winston doesn't check down very well. He doesn't have enough touch to the ball and he zips it with too much velocity.Maybe it's because I still see Kamara making circus catches on a simple check down. Originally Posted by SaintGnome I think he takes too long making the check down decision and it makes him rush the throw. I don't think we have truly seen what he is currently capable of doing. I feel that basing whatever we saw from his time in Tampa must be taken with a grain of salt. He was never asked to "check down", but rather to constantly go for the big play, in other words, "no risk it, no biscuit". He has now had two years learning from Payton and/or Brees. In his brief stint last season he had no fewer than two starting offensive linemen missing every game and just like the rest of our QB's didn't have a tremendous amount of time to throw the ball. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

06-02-2022, 04:50 PM	#12
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Captain Checkdown: The quarterbacks who most and least rely on checkdown passes Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like Winston doesn't check down very well. He doesn't have enough touch to the ball and he zips it with too much velocity.Maybe it's because I still see Kamara making circus catches on a simple check down. Originally Posted by SaintGnome I think he takes too long making the check down decision and it makes him rush the throw. Believe y'all's analysis is well-worded; his apologists will say he's not had enough time in the Saints System, but five years in Tampa, plus this is his third season with the Saints... Am curious how many years, games of this great roster must be wasted before we go to another option at QB should this not play out as well as some hope? Gonna sit back, support Saints Football, let rightly earned praise, criticisms fall accordingly, call BS, question as season moves along, and see how QB1 progresses or digresses... Rugby Saint II and Thirty3 like this.
	Last edited by jeanpierre; 06-02-2022 at 05:38 PM..

06-02-2022, 05:52 PM	#13
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Captain Checkdown: The quarterbacks who most and least rely on checkdown passes Originally Posted by jeanpierre Believe y'all's analysis is well-worded; his apologists will say he's not had enough time in the Saints System, but five years in Tampa, plus this is his third season with the Saints... Am curious how many years, games of this great roster must be wasted before we go to another option at QB should this not shake out well? Gonna sit back, support the Saints, let rightly earned praise, criticisms fall accordingly, call BS, question same as season moves along, and see how he progresses or digresses... I believe Winston has had plenty of time in the Saints system, but has yet to have a legitimate chance to show what he has absorbed. He'll now be getting that well earned chance. No more being thrown under the bus schematically by the vastly over-rated Bruce "No risk it, no biscuit" Arians. No more trying to always having to play catch up with the 31st (2018) and 29nd (2019) ranked scoring defenses in the NFL letting him down game after game.

06-02-2022, 06:40 PM	#14
SaintGnome 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Bradenton,FL Posts: 642	Re: Captain Checkdown: The quarterbacks who most and least rely on checkdown passes Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I don't think we have truly seen what he is currently capable of doing. I feel that basing whatever we saw from his time in Tampa must be taken with a grain of salt. He was never asked to "check down", but rather to constantly go for the big play, in other words, "no risk it, no biscuit". He has now had two years learning from Payton and/or Brees. In his brief stint last season he had no fewer than two starting offensive linemen missing every game and just like the rest of our QB's didn't have a tremendous amount of time to throw the ball. I didn't say he couldn't get or be better, just what I've observed (rightly or wrongly) in the sample size we have. I mentioned on another post Winston should be brought along slowly. If I was PC I'd tell JW to go progression #1, #2, then go directly to checkdown. If check down is not there, TAKE THE SACK, and live another day. If he gets good at that and the protection is there then go through more progressions. AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.

06-02-2022, 07:01 PM	#15
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Captain Checkdown: The quarterbacks who most and least rely on checkdown passes Originally Posted by SaintGnome I didn't say he couldn't get or be better, just what I've observed (rightly or wrongly) in the sample size we have. I mentioned on another post Winston should be brought along slowly. If I was PC I'd tell JW to go progression #1, #2, then go directly to checkdown. If check down is not there, TAKE THE SACK, and live another day. If he gets good at that and the protection is there then go through more progressions. Agree with the sample size. If Pete Carmichael is aware as I think he is he should be able to ascertain Winston's capabilities of handling the progressions facing arguably the best defense in the league in practice. I doubt he's going to see anything more capable once the season starts. Of course, I may be wrong, but I fully expect Winston and the Saints offense to be rolling right off the bat.

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