Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

BakoSaint · 10-04-2022, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time.

This presumes Dennis Allen is the average replacement head coach. But Dennis Allen came to the Saints with an 8-28 career head coaching record which is well below .500 or average. I think that when Payton went 7-9 for 3 years it was fair to question whether he had lost his edge. That he improved was a pleasant surprise. But I don’t think its fair to make this a cautionary tale about asking for change. Nobody was asking to replace Payton with 8-28 Dennis Allen any more than anyone now who wants a new QB is saying lets sign Jacoby Brissett and make him our franchise QB this offseason.

Personally my opinion is that Sean is a great coach and a horrible GM and that he became our defacto GM with an accountant yes man at his side. We won’t know unless he goes elsewhere but honestly I think he will instantly improve a team with coaching but then gradually erode them if given GM powers. He can find diamonds in the rough in mid rounds yet if they are not available he is impatient and takes players who would not be drafted, falls in love with bad talent, cant evaluate any QB except Brees, and wastes time on projects. When a formula works to find great olinemen in mid rounds he stops the formula, trades away the mid round picks, and takes overrated linemen in early rounds or useless linemen in late rounds. He also gets in fueds and dumps useful players inexplicably then stubbornly insists there is no need at the position because that justifies getting rid of the player and not relacing them without admitting the conflict hurt. With a good gm in absolute control sean would be a good coach. Just like his coordinators are not head coach material though, he is not gm material.

iceshack149 · 10-04-2022, 05:11 PM

Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday

"The refs appeared to have botched the call on the Saints' opening drive vs MIN. Cesar Ruiz was ruled an ineligible man downfield on a screen to Mark Ingram, but Ingram caught the ball behind the line of scrimmage, making Ruiz legal. Same scenario on MIN's 1st TD & refs let it go," Duncan wrote on Twitter.
The penalty discrepancy was noticeably large at the end of this Week 4 contest. The Saints collected 10 penalty flags for 102 yards. The Vikings amassed just five for 35 yards.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090

AsylumGuido · 10-04-2022, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090

Officiating incompetence. Part time officials in a multibillion dollar league. All flags need to be reviewable. The technology is there.

papz · 10-05-2022, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by hitta

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time.

Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still **** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Rugby Saint II · 10-05-2022, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still **** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Personally, I feel like it was time to let Sean Payton get his much need break from the grind of football. He coached his very best season last year and the burn out was too much to overcome with the short break between seasons. I can't fault Sean Payton for leaving us when he did. He does have a family after all, and I want him to be happy. He's earned it by being a good man in my book.

When Payton came to the Saints he had a three year plan to win the Super bowl and it worked beautifully. Not all plans work. Sometimes we need a fresh flux of insight like new coaches after three 7-9 seasons to help build a new plan. He has that same opportunity again with a new team and I'm excited for him to come back and ***** slap Roger Godhell with another Super bowl victory.

I can't blame Payton solely for the shape that we're in. Loomis has to know when to pull back the reins on the thoroughbred for control over their direction they are headed, then just let him go. Loomis had had to step in before to shut Payton's vision down over the years when necessary and he should have had better control over our current situation.

Loomis made the bold moves in the draft, free agency, and cap spending that put us in this shape to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I like what he's done for us, but he's really not much more than a damn fine bean counter who needs another strong voice in his ear to properly manage this team.

TheOak · 10-02-2022, 01:02 PM

…… lots of things. …… lots of little things. Everything normally fixed by a coach.

We’ve been seeing the same sh1t for 7 weeks. Coach needs to go, HC is not in Dennis Allen’s skill tree.

Boston Saint · 10-02-2022, 01:13 PM

It is truly amazing how the refs screw the Saints EVERY damn game. EVERY one. You’d think once a season it would go the team’s way. Gotta go back to the SB season to see that though.

Cruize · 10-02-2022, 02:26 PM

-Dalton should be the QB moving forward. Decisive. Accurate. Winston had a chance to salvage his career with Payton. That ship has sailed.
-Great game by Murray. Should never had been released way back when.
-The NFL refs are God awful. The Saints ALWAYS have those timely, game changing/deciding calls and no calls go against them.
-Jordan got paid a hundred years ago and has shown up every week since. Peat, Thomas and Kamara have been no shows.
-I was on board with staying in house and hiring Allen. They should have blew it up.
-Allowing Gardner Johnson to walk was a mistake.
-Lutz can hit a 60 and miss an extra point. He may get back to being All-Pro, but right now he's just another guy with a big leg.
-Hiil, Trautman, Olave, Callaway, Davenport, Smith and Werner with positive shows.
-Seattle is not a guaranteed win.

GeauxForMore · 10-02-2022, 02:55 PM

*Dalton should be the starter the rest of the way.
Not saying he is great but he is a better fit for
this O than Winston.
*DA was a bad hire. No discipline on both sides of
the ball. Carmichael needs to go.
*Great job Murray, Lutz, and Olave.
*Our defense always makes me proud even with
their backs against the wall they step up.
*Ingram is done.
*Kamara, Peat and MT have disappeared since all
of them signed big contracts. All of them must
be in next week to keep us in this season.
*Next week is make or break for us. Sad to say.
*OH and the refs suck big ****ing balls.......
*Have a great rest of your weekend Who Dats!!!!

voodooido · 10-02-2022, 04:37 PM

JW might be done as a starter. AD managed the game without 3 key players and almost pulled out a win vs what could quite possibly be a Super Bowl team. He was far from great but was better than JW has been all season

10-04-2022, 04:10 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by hitta This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time. This presumes Dennis Allen is the average replacement head coach. But Dennis Allen came to the Saints with an 8-28 career head coaching record which is well below .500 or average. I think that when Payton went 7-9 for 3 years it was fair to question whether he had lost his edge. That he improved was a pleasant surprise. But I don’t think its fair to make this a cautionary tale about asking for change. Nobody was asking to replace Payton with 8-28 Dennis Allen any more than anyone now who wants a new QB is saying lets sign Jacoby Brissett and make him our franchise QB this offseason. Personally my opinion is that Sean is a great coach and a horrible GM and that he became our defacto GM with an accountant yes man at his side. We won’t know unless he goes elsewhere but honestly I think he will instantly improve a team with coaching but then gradually erode them if given GM powers. He can find diamonds in the rough in mid rounds yet if they are not available he is impatient and takes players who would not be drafted, falls in love with bad talent, cant evaluate any QB except Brees, and wastes time on projects. When a formula works to find great olinemen in mid rounds he stops the formula, trades away the mid round picks, and takes overrated linemen in early rounds or useless linemen in late rounds. He also gets in fueds and dumps useful players inexplicably then stubbornly insists there is no need at the position because that justifies getting rid of the player and not relacing them without admitting the conflict hurt. With a good gm in absolute control sean would be a good coach. Just like his coordinators are not head coach material though, he is not gm material.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400

10-04-2022, 05:11 PM	#2
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,426 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday "The refs appeared to have botched the call on the Saints' opening drive vs MIN. Cesar Ruiz was ruled an ineligible man downfield on a screen to Mark Ingram, but Ingram caught the ball behind the line of scrimmage, making Ruiz legal. Same scenario on MIN's 1st TD & refs let it go," Duncan wrote on Twitter. The penalty discrepancy was noticeably large at the end of this Week 4 contest. The Saints collected 10 penalty flags for 102 yards. The Vikings amassed just five for 35 yards. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090 Rugby Saint II and Pete like this.

10-04-2022, 05:52 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,671	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by iceshack149 Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090 Officiating incompetence. Part time officials in a multibillion dollar league. All flags need to be reviewable. The technology is there.

10-05-2022, 08:22 AM	#4
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,793	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by hitta This is life without Sean. People were ***ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time. Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still ** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other. saintsfan1976 likes this.

10-05-2022, 09:39 AM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,166	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by papz Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still ** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Personally, I feel like it was time to let Sean Payton get his much need break from the grind of football. He coached his very best season last year and the burn out was too much to overcome with the short break between seasons. I can't fault Sean Payton for leaving us when he did. He does have a family after all, and I want him to be happy. He's earned it by being a good man in my book. When Payton came to the Saints he had a three year plan to win the Super bowl and it worked beautifully. Not all plans work. Sometimes we need a fresh flux of insight like new coaches after three 7-9 seasons to help build a new plan. He has that same opportunity again with a new team and I'm excited for him to come back and *** slap Roger Godhell with another Super bowl victory. I can't blame Payton solely for the shape that we're in. Loomis has to know when to pull back the reins on the thoroughbred for control over their direction they are headed, then just let him go. Loomis had had to step in before to shut Payton's vision down over the years when necessary and he should have had better control over our current situation. Loomis made the bold moves in the draft, free agency, and cap spending that put us in this shape to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I like what he's done for us, but he's really not much more than a damn fine bean counter who needs another strong voice in his ear to properly manage this team.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

10-02-2022, 01:02 PM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,050	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings …… lots of things. …… lots of little things. Everything normally fixed by a coach. We’ve been seeing the same sh1t for 7 weeks. Coach needs to go, HC is not in Dennis Allen’s skill tree. SmashMouth, 73Saint and Sinner like this.

10-02-2022, 01:13 PM	#7
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings It is truly amazing how the refs screw the Saints EVERY damn game. EVERY one. You’d think once a season it would go the team’s way. Gotta go back to the SB season to see that though. Pete and Rell&Gold like this.

10-02-2022, 02:26 PM	#8
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,467	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings -Dalton should be the QB moving forward. Decisive. Accurate. Winston had a chance to salvage his career with Payton. That ship has sailed. -Great game by Murray. Should never had been released way back when. -The NFL refs are God awful. The Saints ALWAYS have those timely, game changing/deciding calls and no calls go against them. -Jordan got paid a hundred years ago and has shown up every week since. Peat, Thomas and Kamara have been no shows. -I was on board with staying in house and hiring Allen. They should have blew it up. -Allowing Gardner Johnson to walk was a mistake. -Lutz can hit a 60 and miss an extra point. He may get back to being All-Pro, but right now he's just another guy with a big leg. -Hiil, Trautman, Olave, Callaway, Davenport, Smith and Werner with positive shows. -Seattle is not a guaranteed win.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,467

10-02-2022, 02:55 PM	#9
GeauxForMore 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Panama City, FL Posts: 590	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Dalton should be the starter the rest of the way. Not saying he is great but he is a better fit for this O than Winston. DA was a bad hire. No discipline on both sides of the ball. Carmichael needs to go. Great job Murray, Lutz, and Olave. Our defense always makes me proud even with their backs against the wall they step up. Ingram is done. Kamara, Peat and MT have disappeared since all of them signed big contracts. All of them must be in next week to keep us in this season. Next week is make or break for us. Sad to say. OH and the refs suck big ***ing balls....... Have a great rest of your weekend Who Dats!!!! dizzle88 and Sinner like this.

10-02-2022, 04:37 PM	#10
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,842	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings JW might be done as a starter. AD managed the game without 3 key players and almost pulled out a win vs what could quite possibly be a Super Bowl team. He was far from great but was better than JW has been all season jnormand, dizzle88 and Rell&Gold like this.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,842