Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Boston Saint · 10-02-2022, 01:13 PM

It is truly amazing how the refs screw the Saints EVERY damn game. EVERY one. You’d think once a season it would go the team’s way. Gotta go back to the SB season to see that though.

BakoSaint · 10-02-2022, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

We should never be in a position to let the refs, and the other team beat us like this. But here we are. On to next week...

So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc.

llaguardia81 · 10-02-2022, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

We should stick with Dalton regardless next week. He provided some spark. But even if he is better than Winston probably neither is good enough to get a ring, especially playing 11 vs 16 with the refs, and even if one was good enough, neither project to be durable and stay healthy at their age/condition with our oline. We probably need a qb and to get that we probably need a high first round pick and possibly more to trade up which means waiting until 2024. At least maybe Dalton can give us consistent enough qb play to properly evaluate our talent as long as he can stay on the field. Maybe he can make Thomas or Hill look good enough to trade for something. If Dalton has ups and downs, as we would expect, we can give winston another look when he is fully healthy, but I dont know if he will ever stay fully healthy when our guards are a guy who is there because of his draft position and another guy who is there because of his contract commitment, not anyone who is there because they are good at blocking pass rushers.

We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft.

BakoSaint · 10-02-2022, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by llaguardia81

We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft.

That could happen but it would likely be a mid-round pick. The nice thing about the NFL is that normally the teams that really need a QB badly finish with really bad records so they get very high first round picks, at least 5th-10th, which really helps in getting the QB you want. However, usually the teams willing to trade for a new head coach have potential but are underachieving, teams with .500 type records, so they don't have those picks. Had we kept our pick, we would be on track to draft top 5-10 at a 1-3 record which is perfectly in line Dennis Allen's two full seasons as head coach at 4-12. Maybe we can find a value QB in the mid 1st or trade up, but that relies on someone paying up for Payton and us not getting squeezed by Payton saying he only wants to go to one team and that team not having or offering a 1st rounder. Maybe Payton will want to go to Denver to fix Russell Wilson but they don't have a 1st rounder.

Cruize · 10-02-2022, 02:26 PM

-Dalton should be the QB moving forward. Decisive. Accurate. Winston had a chance to salvage his career with Payton. That ship has sailed.
-Great game by Murray. Should never had been released way back when.
-The NFL refs are God awful. The Saints ALWAYS have those timely, game changing/deciding calls and no calls go against them.
-Jordan got paid a hundred years ago and has shown up every week since. Peat, Thomas and Kamara have been no shows.
-I was on board with staying in house and hiring Allen. They should have blew it up.
-Allowing Gardner Johnson to walk was a mistake.
-Lutz can hit a 60 and miss an extra point. He may get back to being All-Pro, but right now he's just another guy with a big leg.
-Hiil, Trautman, Olave, Callaway, Davenport, Smith and Werner with positive shows.
-Seattle is not a guaranteed win.

Sinner · 10-02-2022, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc.

It would be nice to just be 3-1 like the team that beat us today by a field goal, which would be the case if everything you said from "get a new GM", to the end of your comment were the case.

GeauxForMore · 10-02-2022, 02:55 PM

*Dalton should be the starter the rest of the way.
Not saying he is great but he is a better fit for
this O than Winston.
*DA was a bad hire. No discipline on both sides of
the ball. Carmichael needs to go.
*Great job Murray, Lutz, and Olave.
*Our defense always makes me proud even with
their backs against the wall they step up.
*Ingram is done.
*Kamara, Peat and MT have disappeared since all
of them signed big contracts. All of them must
be in next week to keep us in this season.
*Next week is make or break for us. Sad to say.
*OH and the refs suck big ****ing balls.......
*Have a great rest of your weekend Who Dats!!!!

TheOak · 10-02-2022, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc.

If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs.

We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol.

Boston Saint · 10-02-2022, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs.

We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol.

We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS.

voodooido · 10-02-2022, 04:37 PM

JW might be done as a starter. AD managed the game without 3 key players and almost pulled out a win vs what could quite possibly be a Super Bowl team. He was far from great but was better than JW has been all season

10-02-2022, 01:13 PM	#11
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,879	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings It is truly amazing how the refs screw the Saints EVERY damn game. EVERY one. You’d think once a season it would go the team’s way. Gotta go back to the SB season to see that though. Pete and Rell&Gold like this.

10-02-2022, 01:14 PM	#12
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,769	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Sinner We should never be in a position to let the refs, and the other team beat us like this. But here we are. On to next week... So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc. Rell&Gold likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,769

10-02-2022, 01:18 PM	#13
llaguardia81 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 443 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by BakoSaint We should stick with Dalton regardless next week. He provided some spark. But even if he is better than Winston probably neither is good enough to get a ring, especially playing 11 vs 16 with the refs, and even if one was good enough, neither project to be durable and stay healthy at their age/condition with our oline. We probably need a qb and to get that we probably need a high first round pick and possibly more to trade up which means waiting until 2024. At least maybe Dalton can give us consistent enough qb play to properly evaluate our talent as long as he can stay on the field. Maybe he can make Thomas or Hill look good enough to trade for something. If Dalton has ups and downs, as we would expect, we can give winston another look when he is fully healthy, but I dont know if he will ever stay fully healthy when our guards are a guy who is there because of his draft position and another guy who is there because of his contract commitment, not anyone who is there because they are good at blocking pass rushers. We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft.

10-02-2022, 01:39 PM	#14
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,769	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by llaguardia81 We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft. That could happen but it would likely be a mid-round pick. The nice thing about the NFL is that normally the teams that really need a QB badly finish with really bad records so they get very high first round picks, at least 5th-10th, which really helps in getting the QB you want. However, usually the teams willing to trade for a new head coach have potential but are underachieving, teams with .500 type records, so they don't have those picks. Had we kept our pick, we would be on track to draft top 5-10 at a 1-3 record which is perfectly in line Dennis Allen's two full seasons as head coach at 4-12. Maybe we can find a value QB in the mid 1st or trade up, but that relies on someone paying up for Payton and us not getting squeezed by Payton saying he only wants to go to one team and that team not having or offering a 1st rounder. Maybe Payton will want to go to Denver to fix Russell Wilson but they don't have a 1st rounder.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,769

10-02-2022, 02:26 PM	#15
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,305	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings -Dalton should be the QB moving forward. Decisive. Accurate. Winston had a chance to salvage his career with Payton. That ship has sailed. -Great game by Murray. Should never had been released way back when. -The NFL refs are God awful. The Saints ALWAYS have those timely, game changing/deciding calls and no calls go against them. -Jordan got paid a hundred years ago and has shown up every week since. Peat, Thomas and Kamara have been no shows. -I was on board with staying in house and hiring Allen. They should have blew it up. -Allowing Gardner Johnson to walk was a mistake. -Lutz can hit a 60 and miss an extra point. He may get back to being All-Pro, but right now he's just another guy with a big leg. -Hiil, Trautman, Olave, Callaway, Davenport, Smith and Werner with positive shows. -Seattle is not a guaranteed win.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,305

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10-02-2022, 02:35 PM	#16
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,768	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by BakoSaint So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc. It would be nice to just be 3-1 like the team that beat us today by a field goal, which would be the case if everything you said from "get a new GM", to the end of your comment were the case.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,768

10-02-2022, 02:55 PM	#17
GeauxForMore 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Panama City, FL Posts: 582	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Dalton should be the starter the rest of the way. Not saying he is great but he is a better fit for this O than Winston. DA was a bad hire. No discipline on both sides of the ball. Carmichael needs to go. Great job Murray, Lutz, and Olave. Our defense always makes me proud even with their backs against the wall they step up. Ingram is done. Kamara, Peat and MT have disappeared since all of them signed big contracts. All of them must be in next week to keep us in this season. Next week is make or break for us. Sad to say. OH and the refs suck big ***ing balls....... Have a great rest of your weekend Who Dats!!!! dizzle88 and Sinner like this.

10-02-2022, 03:09 PM	#18
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by BakoSaint So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc. If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs. We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol. neugey, Crusader, saintsfan1976 and 2 others like this.

10-02-2022, 04:01 PM	#19
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,879	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by TheOak If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs. We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol. We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS. Rell&Gold likes this.

10-02-2022, 04:37 PM	#20
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,751	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings JW might be done as a starter. AD managed the game without 3 key players and almost pulled out a win vs what could quite possibly be a Super Bowl team. He was far from great but was better than JW has been all season jnormand, dizzle88 and Rell&Gold like this.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,751