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Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitta (Post 960110)

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time.

This presumes Dennis Allen is the average replacement head coach. But Dennis Allen came to the Saints with an 8-28 career head coaching record which is well below .500 or average. I think that when Payton went 7-9 for 3 years it was fair to question whether he had lost his edge. That he improved was a pleasant surprise. But I don’t think its fair to make this a cautionary tale about asking for change. Nobody was asking to replace Payton with 8-28 Dennis Allen any more than anyone now who wants a new QB is saying lets sign Jacoby Brissett and make him our franchise QB this offseason.

Personally my opinion is that Sean is a great coach and a horrible GM and that he became our defacto GM with an accountant yes man at his side. We won’t know unless he goes elsewhere but honestly I think he will instantly improve a team with coaching but then gradually erode them if given GM powers. He can find diamonds in the rough in mid rounds yet if they are not available he is impatient and takes players who would not be drafted, falls in love with bad talent, cant evaluate any QB except Brees, and wastes time on projects. When a formula works to find great olinemen in mid rounds he stops the formula, trades away the mid round picks, and takes overrated linemen in early rounds or useless linemen in late rounds. He also gets in fueds and dumps useful players inexplicably then stubbornly insists there is no need at the position because that justifies getting rid of the player and not relacing them without admitting the conflict hurt. With a good gm in absolute control sean would be a good coach. Just like his coordinators are not head coach material though, he is not gm material.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday

Quote:

"The refs appeared to have botched the call on the Saints' opening drive vs MIN. Cesar Ruiz was ruled an ineligible man downfield on a screen to Mark Ingram, but Ingram caught the ball behind the line of scrimmage, making Ruiz legal. Same scenario on MIN's 1st TD & refs let it go," Duncan wrote on Twitter.
The penalty discrepancy was noticeably large at the end of this Week 4 contest. The Saints collected 10 penalty flags for 102 yards. The Vikings amassed just five for 35 yards.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090
:censored:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceshack149 (Post 960119)

Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090
:censored:

Officiating incompetence. Part time officials in a multibillion dollar league. All flags need to be reviewable. The technology is there.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

My observation from the London game?
OK,
Dalton is better that Aaron Brooks 2.0, our defense is pretty good, but still gives up too many big plays when we need a stop. Offense is very predictable and vanilla, were 8 wins at best unless Pete starts remembering how Sean ran the ship. And... 9 outa 10 times when Taysom touches the ball good things happen.
Wake me up when they put Taysom in under center. That's all. Thanks

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 960013)

But IMO the refs are being let off the hook with the “can’t blame them” attitude Oak. And since you brought it up let’s look at baseball.

That sport has embraced technology well. They are able to review and challenge just about everything on the field except balls and strikes and that will change in a few seasons. They have realized that umps can screw up the game to such a degree that something needed to change. They’ve taken advantage of technology to make sure calls are correct.

The NFL has done the exact opposite. There is no standard for camera coverage on games or what views can be used for review. Far too many easily reviewable plays are not allowed to be challenged. They briefly experiment with something like reviewing PI, screw THAT up, then say “oh well, nothing can be done”, then move back to the status quo that always just happens to screw the same teams over and over again with part time refs. It’s like they keep serving up the same turd sandwich and expect NFL fans to like it.

Sure a team can strive to play a perfect game and hope to put themselves far enough ahead that the refs can’t determine the winner. But that hardly ever is going to happen with any team. Why is it so much to ask that they get it right?

The team worked their butts off even with all their mistakes to take a late lead against Minnesota yesterday. The D (which had played so well up
to then) stopped them twice on third down only to have the refs call BS penalties (announcers and Perrera pointed them out). That’s just supposed to be chalked up as human error? Sorry, I’m tired of being offered a turd sandwich.

If the team would have lied down and rolled over and lost by multiple scores I’d let it rest. But they didn’t. In all 4 games so far I’ve seen them fight like hell (to Allen’s credit IMO) through adversity of their OWN making to put themselves in a position to win only to have the zebras chime in and give it to the other team. I find that pathetic and I’m gonna call it out. That’s just the way I see it.

I never said they have no blame, I am just not an idealist. There is no way to remove human error from officiating, there aren't enough cameras or angles to catch everything.

As far as for baseball, I played catcher for 11 years and other than officials having the potential to impact a game negatively MLB/NFL is apples to oranges.

Baseball
- 90% is 1 ball flying in or outside of an invisible box, the remaining 10% is a ball/bag/ and foot or hand. There are no penalties.

- baseball fans are religious about the integrity of the game. The MLB has been careful to not change rules to make it "more exciting".

Football
- 22 people making contact for a couple minutes at a time with a book that defines what it or isn't a penalty.

- The NFL is like the band Kiss. It will sell out its integrity in a split second to generate revenue. They change the rules to make the game more exciting. They sell the ****ing 1/2 time show. This is entertainment not sport, Sean Payton left the competition committee because of that fact.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitta (Post 960110)

Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still **** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Quote:

Originally Posted by papz (Post 960144)

Personally, I feel like it was time to let Sean Payton get his much need break from the grind of football. He coached his very best season last year and the burn out was too much to overcome with the short break between seasons. I can't fault Sean Payton for leaving us when he did. He does have a family after all, and I want him to be happy. He's earned it by being a good man in my book.

When Payton came to the Saints he had a three year plan to win the Super bowl and it worked beautifully. Not all plans work. Sometimes we need a fresh flux of insight like new coaches after three 7-9 seasons to help build a new plan. He has that same opportunity again with a new team and I'm excited for him to come back and ***** slap Roger Godhell with another Super bowl victory.

I can't blame Payton solely for the shape that we're in. Loomis has to know when to pull back the reins on the thoroughbred for control over their direction they are headed, then just let him go. Loomis had had to step in before to shut Payton's vision down over the years when necessary and he should have had better control over our current situation.

Loomis made the bold moves in the draft, free agency, and cap spending that put us in this shape to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I like what he's done for us, but he's really not much more than a damn fine bean counter who needs another strong voice in his ear to properly manage this team.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 960139)

Fair enough Oak. Sounds like you agree with my main point of the refs sharing blame for the Saints losses. I don’t think the NFL has done all they can in minimizing the impact of “bad calls” on a game. The whole challenge system has flaws. They could better train and pay the refs (or instruct them not to cheat).

I will also say that baseball has done a lot of rule changes lately. Universal DH, automatic walks, minimum three batter facing for pitchers. Next year starts pitch clock and shift banning. All done in effort to speed the game or increase runs (i.e. make it more of an entertainment).

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 960151)

Boston, I fully agree with how crappy Referees and Umpires are. Bad officiating has been part of football and baseball as long as bad grass has. That hasn't changed in the 4 decades that I have been playing sports. I also agree that the NFL is not doing all they can to correct the problem. Where we differ is that I don't see the NFL feeling motivated to address the issue until it effects revenue and we both know that is not going to happen. Fans cant stay away, therefor the league will never see it a necessity. For what it is worth, I also don't let my daughters blame the teachers when they don't make the grades they should.. unless their score is the highest in the class. If someone else can manage to win with terrible officiating, then so should we.

All of what you listed speeds up the MLB game, looking at 22 players every play for penalties is not going to have the same effect and it is not until you fix the no-calls that you can fix the calls because all Ref's have to do is not call critical penalties and there is nothing to review. Pass interference can cause a team to lose a score as much as not calling pass interference on critical plays. :bng:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings