Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

Sinner · 10-02-2022, 12:01 PM

We should never be in a position to let the refs, and the other team beat us like this. But here we are. On to next week...

BakoSaint · 10-02-2022, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

We should never be in a position to let the refs, and the other team beat us like this. But here we are. On to next week...

So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc.

Sinner · 10-02-2022, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc.

It would be nice to just be 3-1 like the team that beat us today by a field goal, which would be the case if everything you said from "get a new GM", to the end of your comment were the case.

TheOak · 10-02-2022, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc.

If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs.

We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol.

Boston Saint · 10-02-2022, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs.

We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol.

We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS.

TheOak · 10-03-2022, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS.

Blame the Refs all you like, I believe in liberty.

We are not 1-3 due to penalties, and I never said the Refs were not bad..

Top 25% of the NFL in Penalties We are the only losing team because we are bad, we have no discipline.
Denver (2-2) 37
New Orleans (1-3) 34
Seattle (2-2) 32
NYGiants (3-1) 32
Arrizona (2-2) 30
Tennessee (2-2) 29
Dallas (3-1) 27
Cleveland (2-2) 26
Philadelphia (4-0) 26

Are we a league worst -7 in turnover ratio because of the refs? Please answer specifically because we have played 4 games and have 11 turnovers. Just so happens we are the only team with double digit turnovers..

BTW The Vikings are tied for the second lowest penalties in the league with 16 Total. We had ZERO penalties on Defense against Carolina last week. No one claimed BS. The Saints did not have a single offensive holding penalty against Atlanta or Tampa Bay. No one claimed BS. You are correct that holding goes on every play but we have been the beneficiary of no calls and still lost.

Careful with the 'we are losing because of the Refs'... All four of these entire officiating crews are in on the conspiracy?
Alex Kemp
Shawn Hachuli
Carl Cheffers
Clete Blakeman

Boston Saint · 10-03-2022, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Blame the Refs all you like, I believe in liberty.

We are not 1-3 due to penalties, and I never said the Refs were not bad..

Top 25% of the NFL in Penalties We are the only losing team because we are bad, we have no discipline.
Denver (2-2) 37
New Orleans (1-3) 34
Seattle (2-2) 32
NYGiants (3-1) 32
Arrizona (2-2) 30
Tennessee (2-2) 29
Dallas (3-1) 27
Cleveland (2-2) 26
Philadelphia (4-0) 26

Are we a league worst -7 in turnover ratio because of the refs? Please answer specifically because we have played 4 games and have 11 turnovers. Just so happens we are the only team with double digit turnovers..

BTW The Vikings are tied for the second lowest penalties in the league with 16 Total. We had ZERO penalties on Defense against Carolina last week. No one claimed BS. The Saints did not have a single offensive holding penalty against Atlanta or Tampa Bay. No one claimed BS. You are correct that holding goes on every play but we have been the beneficiary of no calls and still lost.

Careful with the 'we are losing because of the Refs'... All four of these entire officiating crews are in on the conspiracy?
Alex Kemp
Shawn Hachuli
Carl Cheffers
Clete Blakeman

I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem

I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost.

saintsfan1976 · 10-03-2022, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem

I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost.

Yes, refs impact games. They're human and prone to mistakes for various reasons that can include sins. Take that where you want...

But I agree with Oak - not enough to blame our misfortunes this particular season so far.

I'd rather see this team execute better before I turn my attention to zebra conspiracy.

TheOak · 10-03-2022, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem

I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost.

I am not disagreeing about referee quality, I am simply giving it less weight. I am giving it less weight because placing blame where you can not effect change only yields the same result. Crap man, look at our politics, everyone is on the eternal proverbial hook and nothing changes

....

Refs are problematic in every league at every level, in baseball its Umpires. No one is getting let off the hook, there is just no history of that being addressed or resolved. The NFL as you are aware prefers to change rules than to terminate officiating crews that are below average.

So the question for me becomes what can be done about the referees; and if nothing (as it seems), how do we minimize the impact of poor officiating?

I am right back to not playing poorly because that is the only place the team can effect change.

10-02-2022, 12:01 PM	#1
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,771	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings We should never be in a position to let the refs, and the other team beat us like this. But here we are. On to next week... saintsfan1976, SmashMouth, Pete and 1 others like this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,771

10-02-2022, 01:14 PM	#2
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,778	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Sinner We should never be in a position to let the refs, and the other team beat us like this. But here we are. On to next week... So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc. Rell&Gold likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,778

10-02-2022, 02:35 PM	#3
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,771	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by BakoSaint So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc. It would be nice to just be 3-1 like the team that beat us today by a field goal, which would be the case if everything you said from "get a new GM", to the end of your comment were the case.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,771

10-02-2022, 03:09 PM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by BakoSaint So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc. If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs. We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol. neugey, Crusader, saintsfan1976 and 2 others like this.

10-02-2022, 04:01 PM	#5
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,895	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by TheOak If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs. We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol. We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS. Rell&Gold likes this.

10-03-2022, 06:20 AM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Boston Saint We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS. Blame the Refs all you like, I believe in liberty. We are not 1-3 due to penalties, and I never said the Refs were not bad.. Top 25% of the NFL in Penalties We are the only losing team because we are bad, we have no discipline. Denver (2-2) 37 New Orleans (1-3) 34 Seattle (2-2) 32 NYGiants (3-1) 32 Arrizona (2-2) 30 Tennessee (2-2) 29 Dallas (3-1) 27 Cleveland (2-2) 26 Philadelphia (4-0) 26 Are we a league worst -7 in turnover ratio because of the refs? Please answer specifically because we have played 4 games and have 11 turnovers. Just so happens we are the only team with double digit turnovers.. BTW The Vikings are tied for the second lowest penalties in the league with 16 Total. We had ZERO penalties on Defense against Carolina last week. No one claimed BS. The Saints did not have a single offensive holding penalty against Atlanta or Tampa Bay. No one claimed BS. You are correct that holding goes on every play but we have been the beneficiary of no calls and still lost. Careful with the 'we are losing because of the Refs'... All four of these entire officiating crews are in on the conspiracy? Alex Kemp Shawn Hachuli Carl Cheffers Clete Blakeman saintsfan1976 and K Major like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

10-03-2022, 06:39 AM	#7
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,895	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by TheOak Blame the Refs all you like, I believe in liberty. We are not 1-3 due to penalties, and I never said the Refs were not bad.. Top 25% of the NFL in Penalties We are the only losing team because we are bad, we have no discipline. Denver (2-2) 37 New Orleans (1-3) 34 Seattle (2-2) 32 NYGiants (3-1) 32 Arrizona (2-2) 30 Tennessee (2-2) 29 Dallas (3-1) 27 Cleveland (2-2) 26 Philadelphia (4-0) 26 Are we a league worst -7 in turnover ratio because of the refs? Please answer specifically because we have played 4 games and have 11 turnovers. Just so happens we are the only team with double digit turnovers.. BTW The Vikings are tied for the second lowest penalties in the league with 16 Total. We had ZERO penalties on Defense against Carolina last week. No one claimed BS. The Saints did not have a single offensive holding penalty against Atlanta or Tampa Bay. No one claimed BS. You are correct that holding goes on every play but we have been the beneficiary of no calls and still lost. Careful with the 'we are losing because of the Refs'... All four of these entire officiating crews are in on the conspiracy? Alex Kemp Shawn Hachuli Carl Cheffers Clete Blakeman I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost. saintsfan1976 and Rugby Saint II like this.

10-03-2022, 07:55 AM	#8
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,565 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Boston Saint I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost. Yes, refs impact games. They're human and prone to mistakes for various reasons that can include sins. Take that where you want... But I agree with Oak - not enough to blame our misfortunes this particular season so far. I'd rather see this team execute better before I turn my attention to zebra conspiracy. Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

10-03-2022, 08:35 AM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Boston Saint I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost. I am not disagreeing about referee quality, I am simply giving it less weight. I am giving it less weight because placing blame where you can not effect change only yields the same result. Crap man, look at our politics, everyone is on the eternal proverbial hook and nothing changes .... Refs are problematic in every league at every level, in baseball its Umpires. No one is getting let off the hook, there is just no history of that being addressed or resolved. The NFL as you are aware prefers to change rules than to terminate officiating crews that are below average. So the question for me becomes what can be done about the referees; and if nothing (as it seems), how do we minimize the impact of poor officiating? I am right back to not playing poorly because that is the only place the team can effect change. saintsfan1976 and Rugby Saint II like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau