So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc.

If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs.

We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol.

We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS.

Blame the Refs all you like, I believe in liberty.

We are not 1-3 due to penalties, and I never said the Refs were not bad..

Top 25% of the NFL in Penalties We are the only losing team because we are bad, we have no discipline.
Denver (2-2) 37
New Orleans (1-3) 34
Seattle (2-2) 32
NYGiants (3-1) 32
Arrizona (2-2) 30
Tennessee (2-2) 29
Dallas (3-1) 27
Cleveland (2-2) 26
Philadelphia (4-0) 26

Are we a league worst -7 in turnover ratio because of the refs? Please answer specifically because we have played 4 games and have 11 turnovers. Just so happens we are the only team with double digit turnovers..

BTW The Vikings are tied for the second lowest penalties in the league with 16 Total. We had ZERO penalties on Defense against Carolina last week. No one claimed BS. The Saints did not have a single offensive holding penalty against Atlanta or Tampa Bay. No one claimed BS. You are correct that holding goes on every play but we have been the beneficiary of no calls and still lost.

Careful with the 'we are losing because of the Refs'... All four of these entire officiating crews are in on the conspiracy?
Alex Kemp
Shawn Hachuli
Carl Cheffers
Clete Blakeman

I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem

I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost.

Yes, refs impact games. They're human and prone to mistakes for various reasons that can include sins. Take that where you want...

But I agree with Oak - not enough to blame our misfortunes this particular season so far.

I'd rather see this team execute better before I turn my attention to zebra conspiracy.

This team is undisciined. So are the refs. That is not a winning formula.

I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem

I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost.

I am not disagreeing about referee quality, I am simply giving it less weight. I am giving it less weight because placing blame where you can not effect change only yields the same result. Crap man, look at our politics, everyone is on the eternal proverbial hook and nothing changes ....

Refs are problematic in every league at every level, in baseball its Umpires. No one is getting let off the hook, there is just no history of that being addressed or resolved. The NFL as you are aware prefers to change rules than to terminate officiating crews that are below average.

So the question for me becomes what can be done about the referees; and if nothing (as it seems), how do we minimize the impact of poor officiating?

I am right back to not playing poorly because that is the only place the team can effect change.

But IMO the refs are being let off the hook with the “can’t blame them” attitude Oak. And since you brought it up let’s look at baseball.

That sport has embraced technology well. They are able to review and challenge just about everything on the field except balls and strikes and that will change in a few seasons. They have realized that umps can screw up the game to such a degree that something needed to change. They’ve taken advantage of technology to make sure calls are correct.

The NFL has done the exact opposite. There is no standard for camera coverage on games or what views can be used for review. Far too many easily reviewable plays are not allowed to be challenged. They briefly experiment with something like reviewing PI, screw THAT up, then say “oh well, nothing can be done”, then move back to the status quo that always just happens to screw the same teams over and over again with part time refs. It’s like they keep serving up the same turd sandwich and expect NFL fans to like it.

Sure a team can strive to play a perfect game and hope to put themselves far enough ahead that the refs can’t determine the winner. But that hardly ever is going to happen with any team. Why is it so much to ask that they get it right?

The team worked their butts off even with all their mistakes to take a late lead against Minnesota yesterday. The D (which had played so well up
to then) stopped them twice on third down only to have the refs call BS penalties (announcers and Perrera pointed them out). That’s just supposed to be chalked up as human error? Sorry, I’m tired of being offered a turd sandwich.

If the team would have lied down and rolled over and lost by multiple scores I’d let it rest. But they didn’t. In all 4 games so far I’ve seen them fight like hell (to Allen’s credit IMO) through adversity of their OWN making to put themselves in a position to win only to have the zebras chime in and give it to the other team. I find that pathetic and I’m gonna call it out. That’s just the way I see it.