Everything Must Go?

halloween 65 · 10-21-2022, 06:00 PM

Gonna look even worse with the draft picks we give up year after year. Only speculation but might have gotten some really good players. Payton liked to showboat on draft day and Allen ( who's not in the same league as a coach as Payton) does too. I've never been a fan of a 2 for 1 deal. Projections are just that, projections, never going to hit on the way we did it. Most of the time it's a fail.

AsylumGuido · 10-22-2022, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Gonna look even worse with the draft picks we give up year after year. Only speculation but might have gotten some really good players. Payton liked to showboat on draft day and Allen ( who's not in the same league as a coach as Payton) does too. I've never been a fan of a 2 for 1 deal. Projections are just that, projections, never going to hit on the way we did it. Most of the time it's a fail.

Most of the time ALL draft picks are a fail. It's the nature of the draft. However, one way of thinking is that moving up in a draft statistically increases the odds of landing a starter quality player.

Boston Saint · 10-22-2022, 10:48 AM

Just another piece of info…according to this:

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nf...g-chiefs-49ers

The Saints are/have been in top 5 of injured teams. Strangely enough Az is rated worse than the Saints. But they got their #1 WR back for the Thursday game. Imagine if that would have been Thomas back and not Hopkins? Anyway just another piece of info. Not saying it excuses anything about the performance. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with the Allen team we wanted to see with Landry, Thomas, Olave as WRs and Lattimore and Adebo in the d backfield. I knew not having CGJ was going to hurt. But it seemed unavoidable.

AsylumGuido · 10-22-2022, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Just another piece of info…according to this:

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nf...g-chiefs-49ers

The Saints are/have been in top 5 of injured teams. Strangely enough Az is rated worse than the Saints. But they got their #1 WR back for the Thursday game. Imagine if that would have been Thomas back and not Hopkins? Anyway just another piece of info. Not saying it excuses anything about the performance. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with the Allen team we wanted to see with Landry, Thomas, Olave as WRs and Lattimore and Adebo in the d backfield. I knew not having CGJ was going to hurt. But it seemed unavoidable.

Agreed. It's not excuses, but it is one of the substantive reasons. I see substantive reasons as something unavoidable, outside of one's control. Injuries are unavoidable. Bad calls by incompetent officiating is unavoidable. Having one's opponent get their #1 WR back just in time for your game is unavoidable. They are substantive reasons for hinderance of success. On the other hand, I see excuses as reasons, as well, but avoidable. Pre-snap penalties are avoidable. Missed tackles are avoidable.

shawnkytonk · 10-22-2022, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Since joining the team Shaheed has never made a cryptic tweet, refused a phone call from the coach, delayed a needed surgery, or fought a teammate in practice. He doesn't have much money guaranteed so he is motivated to prove something to get paid.

So that's your opinion, because the fact you actually don't know any of this shows your flawed analysis.

shawnkytonk · 10-22-2022, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Explain how Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas?

AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!"

AsylumGuido · 10-22-2022, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by shawnkytonk

AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!"

I've uttered that same word more than once when reading the same stuff, shawnky.

BakoSaint · 10-22-2022, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by shawnkytonk

AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!"

I can’t imagine why an Eagles fan would want to watch Saints games this year. Oh wait. Maybe your girlfriend is excited about the top 5 pick.

With all your understanding of injuries please give me all the examples where a player was largely ineffective or absent for 2.5 years and then came back to being a consistent producer. If you had a coworker who was on disability for the better part of 2.5 years with a string of various ailments, would they have to piss on you for you to question their imminent return to full time work?

AsylumGuido · 10-22-2022, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I can’t imagine why an Eagles fan would want to watch Saints games this year. Oh wait. Maybe your girlfriend is excited about the top 5 pick.

With all your understanding of injuries please give me all the examples where a player was largely ineffective or absent for 2.5 years and then came back to being a consistent producer. If you had a coworker who was on disability for the better part of 2.5 years with a string of various ailments, would they have to piss on you for you to question their imminent return to full time work?

No. I would understand that their injuries were totally out of their control and I would accept them back with open arms while looking forward to their continued contributions just as before their time missed.

You do realize (probably not) that Thomas still leads the 2022 Saints in touchdown receptions after returning from the first injury, right? I'd call that being largely effective.

dizzle88 · 10-22-2022, 01:00 PM

On the injury perspective, I get that we are down quite a lot of starters and that other teams are dealing with the same thing. The point where it changes however, is that this is nothing new for the Saints.
This amount of injuries is about par for the course when it comes to this team, didn't we have the most players on IR last season or something? Or the team that recorded the most changed players due to injuries?

So yes, whilst other teams are injured as much as the Saints are this season, the Saints have been this injury riddled for years, whereas other teams have only really started experiencing it this year.

I do hope we are able to find a decent starting caliber QB in the draft somewhere, to build around.
The QB's on this roster aren't the future.

As for the missed tackles on defense, that was happening with the Starters out there too, so that isn't an injury thing.
I love that Kamara has spoken up, but it worries me that it took an RB to do it after 7 weeks, and not the head coach.

10-21-2022, 06:00 PM	#21
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Everything Must Go? Gonna look even worse with the draft picks we give up year after year. Only speculation but might have gotten some really good players. Payton liked to showboat on draft day and Allen ( who's not in the same league as a coach as Payton) does too. I've never been a fan of a 2 for 1 deal. Projections are just that, projections, never going to hit on the way we did it. Most of the time it's a fail.

10-22-2022, 09:10 AM	#22
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,392	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by halloween 65 Gonna look even worse with the draft picks we give up year after year. Only speculation but might have gotten some really good players. Payton liked to showboat on draft day and Allen ( who's not in the same league as a coach as Payton) does too. I've never been a fan of a 2 for 1 deal. Projections are just that, projections, never going to hit on the way we did it. Most of the time it's a fail. Most of the time ALL draft picks are a fail. It's the nature of the draft. However, one way of thinking is that moving up in a draft statistically increases the odds of landing a starter quality player.

10-22-2022, 10:48 AM	#23
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,869	Re: Everything Must Go? Just another piece of info…according to this: https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nf...g-chiefs-49ers The Saints are/have been in top 5 of injured teams. Strangely enough Az is rated worse than the Saints. But they got their #1 WR back for the Thursday game. Imagine if that would have been Thomas back and not Hopkins? Anyway just another piece of info. Not saying it excuses anything about the performance. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with the Allen team we wanted to see with Landry, Thomas, Olave as WRs and Lattimore and Adebo in the d backfield. I knew not having CGJ was going to hurt. But it seemed unavoidable. AsylumGuido likes this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

10-22-2022, 11:13 AM	#24
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,392	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Just another piece of info…according to this: https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nf...g-chiefs-49ers The Saints are/have been in top 5 of injured teams. Strangely enough Az is rated worse than the Saints. But they got their #1 WR back for the Thursday game. Imagine if that would have been Thomas back and not Hopkins? Anyway just another piece of info. Not saying it excuses anything about the performance. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with the Allen team we wanted to see with Landry, Thomas, Olave as WRs and Lattimore and Adebo in the d backfield. I knew not having CGJ was going to hurt. But it seemed unavoidable. Agreed. It's not excuses, but it is one of the substantive reasons. I see substantive reasons as something unavoidable, outside of one's control. Injuries are unavoidable. Bad calls by incompetent officiating is unavoidable. Having one's opponent get their #1 WR back just in time for your game is unavoidable. They are substantive reasons for hinderance of success. On the other hand, I see excuses as reasons, as well, but avoidable. Pre-snap penalties are avoidable. Missed tackles are avoidable.

10-22-2022, 11:33 AM	#25
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 736	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint Since joining the team Shaheed has never made a cryptic tweet, refused a phone call from the coach, delayed a needed surgery, or fought a teammate in practice. He doesn't have much money guaranteed so he is motivated to prove something to get paid. So that's your opinion, because the fact you actually don't know any of this shows your flawed analysis. AsylumGuido likes this.

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10-22-2022, 11:37 AM	#26
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 736	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Explain how Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas? AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!" SaintFanInATLHELL and AsylumGuido like this.

10-22-2022, 11:58 AM	#27
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,392	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by shawnkytonk AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!" I've uttered that same word more than once when reading the same stuff, shawnky.

10-22-2022, 12:00 PM	#28
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,748	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by shawnkytonk AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!" I can’t imagine why an Eagles fan would want to watch Saints games this year. Oh wait. Maybe your girlfriend is excited about the top 5 pick. With all your understanding of injuries please give me all the examples where a player was largely ineffective or absent for 2.5 years and then came back to being a consistent producer. If you had a coworker who was on disability for the better part of 2.5 years with a string of various ailments, would they have to piss on you for you to question their imminent return to full time work?
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,748

10-22-2022, 12:06 PM	#29
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,392	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint I can’t imagine why an Eagles fan would want to watch Saints games this year. Oh wait. Maybe your girlfriend is excited about the top 5 pick. With all your understanding of injuries please give me all the examples where a player was largely ineffective or absent for 2.5 years and then came back to being a consistent producer. If you had a coworker who was on disability for the better part of 2.5 years with a string of various ailments, would they have to piss on you for you to question their imminent return to full time work? No. I would understand that their injuries were totally out of their control and I would accept them back with open arms while looking forward to their continued contributions just as before their time missed. You do realize (probably not) that Thomas still leads the 2022 Saints in touchdown receptions after returning from the first injury, right? I'd call that being largely effective.

10-22-2022, 01:00 PM	#30
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Everything Must Go? On the injury perspective, I get that we are down quite a lot of starters and that other teams are dealing with the same thing. The point where it changes however, is that this is nothing new for the Saints. This amount of injuries is about par for the course when it comes to this team, didn't we have the most players on IR last season or something? Or the team that recorded the most changed players due to injuries? So yes, whilst other teams are injured as much as the Saints are this season, the Saints have been this injury riddled for years, whereas other teams have only really started experiencing it this year. I do hope we are able to find a decent starting caliber QB in the draft somewhere, to build around. The QB's on this roster aren't the future. As for the missed tackles on defense, that was happening with the Starters out there too, so that isn't an injury thing. I love that Kamara has spoken up, but it worries me that it took an RB to do it after 7 weeks, and not the head coach.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ