Everything Must Go?

Boston Saint · 10-22-2022, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by shawnkytonk

AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!"

In all fairness please don’t lump all people that have issues with Thomas in the same “pissed in their cheerios” group shawnk. Their are the extreme views like bako’s, but then their are those like me that have no problem with him being on the team and really would like him to be on the field playing, but have legitimate issues with some of his past actions and descisions and wonder if there is carryover.

halloween 65 · 10-21-2022, 06:00 PM

Gonna look even worse with the draft picks we give up year after year. Only speculation but might have gotten some really good players. Payton liked to showboat on draft day and Allen ( who's not in the same league as a coach as Payton) does too. I've never been a fan of a 2 for 1 deal. Projections are just that, projections, never going to hit on the way we did it. Most of the time it's a fail.

AsylumGuido · 10-22-2022, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Gonna look even worse with the draft picks we give up year after year. Only speculation but might have gotten some really good players. Payton liked to showboat on draft day and Allen ( who's not in the same league as a coach as Payton) does too. I've never been a fan of a 2 for 1 deal. Projections are just that, projections, never going to hit on the way we did it. Most of the time it's a fail.

Most of the time ALL draft picks are a fail. It's the nature of the draft. However, one way of thinking is that moving up in a draft statistically increases the odds of landing a starter quality player.

Boston Saint · 10-22-2022, 10:48 AM

Just another piece of info…according to this:

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nf...g-chiefs-49ers

The Saints are/have been in top 5 of injured teams. Strangely enough Az is rated worse than the Saints. But they got their #1 WR back for the Thursday game. Imagine if that would have been Thomas back and not Hopkins? Anyway just another piece of info. Not saying it excuses anything about the performance. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with the Allen team we wanted to see with Landry, Thomas, Olave as WRs and Lattimore and Adebo in the d backfield. I knew not having CGJ was going to hurt. But it seemed unavoidable.

AsylumGuido · 10-22-2022, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Just another piece of info…according to this:

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nf...g-chiefs-49ers

The Saints are/have been in top 5 of injured teams. Strangely enough Az is rated worse than the Saints. But they got their #1 WR back for the Thursday game. Imagine if that would have been Thomas back and not Hopkins? Anyway just another piece of info. Not saying it excuses anything about the performance. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with the Allen team we wanted to see with Landry, Thomas, Olave as WRs and Lattimore and Adebo in the d backfield. I knew not having CGJ was going to hurt. But it seemed unavoidable.

Agreed. It's not excuses, but it is one of the substantive reasons. I see substantive reasons as something unavoidable, outside of one's control. Injuries are unavoidable. Bad calls by incompetent officiating is unavoidable. Having one's opponent get their #1 WR back just in time for your game is unavoidable. They are substantive reasons for hinderance of success. On the other hand, I see excuses as reasons, as well, but avoidable. Pre-snap penalties are avoidable. Missed tackles are avoidable.

dizzle88 · 10-22-2022, 01:00 PM

On the injury perspective, I get that we are down quite a lot of starters and that other teams are dealing with the same thing. The point where it changes however, is that this is nothing new for the Saints.
This amount of injuries is about par for the course when it comes to this team, didn't we have the most players on IR last season or something? Or the team that recorded the most changed players due to injuries?

So yes, whilst other teams are injured as much as the Saints are this season, the Saints have been this injury riddled for years, whereas other teams have only really started experiencing it this year.

I do hope we are able to find a decent starting caliber QB in the draft somewhere, to build around.
The QB's on this roster aren't the future.

As for the missed tackles on defense, that was happening with the Starters out there too, so that isn't an injury thing.
I love that Kamara has spoken up, but it worries me that it took an RB to do it after 7 weeks, and not the head coach.

BakoSaint · 10-22-2022, 02:17 PM

What is extreme about my view that a player that has only played 10 of his teams last 40 games cannot be relied on to produce consistently in the future? What is extreme about feeling his not answering Paytons calls, delaying surgery, fighting teammates, and posting cryptic tweets is negative? Are those all positives? I dont hate the guy. I don’t think he can control the injuries. In fact I think the opposite. He can’t control them. So generally a player who misses 30 of 40 games is probably not going to ever be the same. Its how hundreds of careers end for every one career that bounces back. Relying on Michael Thomas is the extreme view. Moving on is the realistic one.

AsylumGuido · 10-22-2022, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

What is extreme about my view that a player that has only played 10 of his teams last 40 games cannot be relied on to produce consistently in the future? What is extreme about feeling his not answering Paytons calls, delaying surgery, fighting teammates, and posting cryptic tweets is negative? Are those all positives? I dont hate the guy. I don’t think he can control the injuries. In fact I think the opposite. He can’t control them. So generally a player who misses 30 of 40 games is probably not going to ever be the same. Its how hundreds of careers end for every one career that bounces back. Relying on Michael Thomas is the extreme view. Moving on is the realistic one.

Blah, blah, blah.

rezburna · 10-22-2022, 08:15 PM

1. Coaching
2. Injuries
3. Left side of the offensive line.
4. Lack of a consistent pass rush.

I don’t identify a lack of talent on the roster…just a lack of availability and the inability to utilize the talent effectively. How they haven’t realized Taysom Hill is always the answer in the red zone is beyond me. Why Shaheed hasn’t played more offense is something I can’t answer. They actually have the speed with Olave, Shaheed, and Kevin White to really gash teams with rub routes and double moves. Do we see it? Nah.

saintsfan1976 · 10-23-2022, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

1. Coaching
2. Injuries
3. Left side of the offensive line.
4. Lack of a consistent pass rush.

I don’t identify a lack of talent on the roster…just a lack of availability and the inability to utilize the talent effectively. How they haven’t realized Taysom Hill is always the answer in the red zone is beyond me. Why Shaheed hasn’t played more offense is something I can’t answer. They actually have the speed with Olave, Shaheed, and Kevin White to really gash teams with rub routes and double moves. Do we see it? Nah.

This is the most accurate assessment in my view.

10-21-2022, 06:00 PM	#2
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Everything Must Go? Gonna look even worse with the draft picks we give up year after year. Only speculation but might have gotten some really good players. Payton liked to showboat on draft day and Allen ( who's not in the same league as a coach as Payton) does too. I've never been a fan of a 2 for 1 deal. Projections are just that, projections, never going to hit on the way we did it. Most of the time it's a fail.

10-22-2022, 09:10 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,701	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by halloween 65 Gonna look even worse with the draft picks we give up year after year. Only speculation but might have gotten some really good players. Payton liked to showboat on draft day and Allen ( who's not in the same league as a coach as Payton) does too. I've never been a fan of a 2 for 1 deal. Projections are just that, projections, never going to hit on the way we did it. Most of the time it's a fail. Most of the time ALL draft picks are a fail. It's the nature of the draft. However, one way of thinking is that moving up in a draft statistically increases the odds of landing a starter quality player.

10-22-2022, 10:48 AM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Everything Must Go? Just another piece of info…according to this: https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nf...g-chiefs-49ers The Saints are/have been in top 5 of injured teams. Strangely enough Az is rated worse than the Saints. But they got their #1 WR back for the Thursday game. Imagine if that would have been Thomas back and not Hopkins? Anyway just another piece of info. Not saying it excuses anything about the performance. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with the Allen team we wanted to see with Landry, Thomas, Olave as WRs and Lattimore and Adebo in the d backfield. I knew not having CGJ was going to hurt. But it seemed unavoidable. AsylumGuido likes this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

10-22-2022, 11:13 AM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,701	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Just another piece of info…according to this: https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nf...g-chiefs-49ers The Saints are/have been in top 5 of injured teams. Strangely enough Az is rated worse than the Saints. But they got their #1 WR back for the Thursday game. Imagine if that would have been Thomas back and not Hopkins? Anyway just another piece of info. Not saying it excuses anything about the performance. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with the Allen team we wanted to see with Landry, Thomas, Olave as WRs and Lattimore and Adebo in the d backfield. I knew not having CGJ was going to hurt. But it seemed unavoidable. Agreed. It's not excuses, but it is one of the substantive reasons. I see substantive reasons as something unavoidable, outside of one's control. Injuries are unavoidable. Bad calls by incompetent officiating is unavoidable. Having one's opponent get their #1 WR back just in time for your game is unavoidable. They are substantive reasons for hinderance of success. On the other hand, I see excuses as reasons, as well, but avoidable. Pre-snap penalties are avoidable. Missed tackles are avoidable.

10-22-2022, 01:00 PM	#6
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,541	Re: Everything Must Go? On the injury perspective, I get that we are down quite a lot of starters and that other teams are dealing with the same thing. The point where it changes however, is that this is nothing new for the Saints. This amount of injuries is about par for the course when it comes to this team, didn't we have the most players on IR last season or something? Or the team that recorded the most changed players due to injuries? So yes, whilst other teams are injured as much as the Saints are this season, the Saints have been this injury riddled for years, whereas other teams have only really started experiencing it this year. I do hope we are able to find a decent starting caliber QB in the draft somewhere, to build around. The QB's on this roster aren't the future. As for the missed tackles on defense, that was happening with the Starters out there too, so that isn't an injury thing. I love that Kamara has spoken up, but it worries me that it took an RB to do it after 7 weeks, and not the head coach.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

10-22-2022, 01:21 PM	#1
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by shawnkytonk AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!" In all fairness please don’t lump all people that have issues with Thomas in the same “pissed in their cheerios” group shawnk. Their are the extreme views like bako’s, but then their are those like me that have no problem with him being on the team and really would like him to be on the field playing, but have legitimate issues with some of his past actions and descisions and wonder if there is carryover. nola_swammi, saintsfan1976 and dizzle88 like this.

10-22-2022, 02:17 PM	#7
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408	Re: Everything Must Go? What is extreme about my view that a player that has only played 10 of his teams last 40 games cannot be relied on to produce consistently in the future? What is extreme about feeling his not answering Paytons calls, delaying surgery, fighting teammates, and posting cryptic tweets is negative? Are those all positives? I dont hate the guy. I don’t think he can control the injuries. In fact I think the opposite. He can’t control them. So generally a player who misses 30 of 40 games is probably not going to ever be the same. Its how hundreds of careers end for every one career that bounces back. Relying on Michael Thomas is the extreme view. Moving on is the realistic one.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408

10-22-2022, 02:44 PM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,701	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint What is extreme about my view that a player that has only played 10 of his teams last 40 games cannot be relied on to produce consistently in the future? What is extreme about feeling his not answering Paytons calls, delaying surgery, fighting teammates, and posting cryptic tweets is negative? Are those all positives? I dont hate the guy. I don’t think he can control the injuries. In fact I think the opposite. He can’t control them. So generally a player who misses 30 of 40 games is probably not going to ever be the same. Its how hundreds of careers end for every one career that bounces back. Relying on Michael Thomas is the extreme view. Moving on is the realistic one. Blah, blah, blah.

10-22-2022, 08:15 PM	#9
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: Everything Must Go? 1. Coaching 2. Injuries 3. Left side of the offensive line. 4. Lack of a consistent pass rush. I don’t identify a lack of talent on the roster…just a lack of availability and the inability to utilize the talent effectively. How they haven’t realized Taysom Hill is always the answer in the red zone is beyond me. Why Shaheed hasn’t played more offense is something I can’t answer. They actually have the speed with Olave, Shaheed, and Kevin White to really gash teams with rub routes and double moves. Do we see it? Nah. neugey, saintsfan1976, AsylumGuido and 2 others like this.

10-23-2022, 09:30 AM	#10
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,046 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by rezburna 1. Coaching 2. Injuries 3. Left side of the offensive line. 4. Lack of a consistent pass rush. I don’t identify a lack of talent on the roster…just a lack of availability and the inability to utilize the talent effectively. How they haven’t realized Taysom Hill is always the answer in the red zone is beyond me. Why Shaheed hasn’t played more offense is something I can’t answer. They actually have the speed with Olave, Shaheed, and Kevin White to really gash teams with rub routes and double moves. Do we see it? Nah. This is the most accurate assessment in my view. rezburna and shawnkytonk like this.