Everything Must Go?

dizzle88 · 10-21-2022, 01:47 PM

I think rather than a fire sale, I think behaviours have to change.

Loomis keeps us in cap hell every year, which was manageable when Brees and Payton led the team, but they don't anymore.

Loomis has to change his behaviour and stop mortgaging our future. If that results in some veterans walking or being traded, then we probably saved some money.

Next, DA needs to get the team an identity, all this BS he spouted in his first press conference is laughable now. He said teams would be unable to match our intensity, The only thing we are doing that's "unmatched" by another team, is the rate we are turning the ball over.

Finally, if Pete C isn't strong enough to call the offense out for being awful, then we need someone who will.
Payton demanded a level of play, players were scared to disappoint him.

AsylumGuido · 10-21-2022, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I think rather than a fire sale, I think behaviours have to change.

Loomis keeps us in cap hell every year, which was manageable when Brees and Payton led the team, but they don't anymore.

Loomis has to change his behaviour and stop mortgaging our future. If that results in some veterans walking or being traded, then we probably saved some money.

Next, DA needs to get the team an identity, all this BS he spouted in his first press conference is laughable now. He said teams would be unable to match our intensity, The only thing we are doing that's "unmatched" by another team, is the rate we are turning the ball over.

Finally, if Pete C isn't strong enough to call the offense out for being awful, then we need someone who will.
Payton demanded a level of play, players were scared to disappoint him.

Honestly I don't see the issue being lack of talent or playcalling. I see it as execution and discipline. As diz here points out it is behaviors that need adjusted. It doesn't matter if the perfect play is called every time if the execution sucks. It doesn't matter if the player has all of the talent in the world if the discipline and fire isn't there to use it.

The roster is full of very talented players. Trying to get rid of good players makes no sense whatsoever. As someone else pointed out here the NFL isn't like MLB. You can't wipe the slate clean and start anew with a fresh roster. MLB has a deep farm system. The NFL has only what you have on the roster and whatever is available in free agency and the draft. There's no promise of collecting a talent pool as good as we have right now for years, if at all.

First I want to see what we look like once we start getting back some of the key pieces that have been missing. Word is that Thomas could be back as early as this coming week. Penning could be a couple of weeks away. Winston, Landy, and Lattimore have ten days to rejoin the active roster.

I read that Kamara addressed the team after the game and made it clear the effort was not there and everyone need to start playing like the Saints he knows. I am coming around to the idea that the problem (aside from the rash of injuries) is with the motivation from the top.

BakoSaint · 10-21-2022, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Honestly I don't see the issue being lack of talent or playcalling. I see it as execution and discipline. As diz here points out it is behaviors that need adjusted. It doesn't matter if the perfect play is called every time if the execution sucks. It doesn't matter if the player has all of the talent in the world if the discipline and fire isn't there to use it.

The roster is full of very talented players. Trying to get rid of good players makes no sense whatsoever. As someone else pointed out here the NFL isn't like MLB. You can't wipe the slate clean and start anew with a fresh roster. MLB has a deep farm system. The NFL has only what you have on the roster and whatever is available in free agency and the draft. There's no promise of collecting a talent pool as good as we have right now for years, if at all.

First I want to see what we look like once we start getting back some of the key pieces that have been missing. Word is that Thomas could be back as early as this coming week. Penning could be a couple of weeks away. Winston, Landy, and Lattimore have ten days to rejoin the active roster.

I read that Kamara addressed the team after the game and made it clear the effort was not there and everyone need to start playing like the Saints he knows. I am coming around to the idea that the problem (aside from the rash of injuries) is with the motivation from the top.

The Patriots got rid of many good players in the process of winning 6 super bowls. Managing the cap often does make sense. Getting younger with more upside on the roster often does make sense. You can't take a formula that won 6 rings and say it can't even possibly make sense. Also, we don't even have to get rid of good players. We can get rid of arguably bad players who would incur a cap hit to get rid of now but will free us up to get more actual good players later, get rid of Peat, Mathieu, Smith, Landry and Thomas if they never play.

While it seems to make sense to have as many good players as possible at all times, the salary cap and timing effect things. If you accept having 70% of the talent of other teams one or two years, you can often afford to have 130% of the talent a later one or two years, and time your window. If you live in debt to the cap like we have been doing, you often end up with 90% of the talent you could have every year, because you lack the tools to get out of bad contracts like Peats and Hills.

10-21-2022, 01:47 PM	#1
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: Everything Must Go? I think rather than a fire sale, I think behaviours have to change. Loomis keeps us in cap hell every year, which was manageable when Brees and Payton led the team, but they don't anymore. Loomis has to change his behaviour and stop mortgaging our future. If that results in some veterans walking or being traded, then we probably saved some money. Next, DA needs to get the team an identity, all this BS he spouted in his first press conference is laughable now. He said teams would be unable to match our intensity, The only thing we are doing that's "unmatched" by another team, is the rate we are turning the ball over. Finally, if Pete C isn't strong enough to call the offense out for being awful, then we need someone who will. Payton demanded a level of play, players were scared to disappoint him. neugey, leilung, AsylumGuido and 1 others like this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

10-21-2022, 02:08 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,491	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by dizzle88 I think rather than a fire sale, I think behaviours have to change. Loomis keeps us in cap hell every year, which was manageable when Brees and Payton led the team, but they don't anymore. Loomis has to change his behaviour and stop mortgaging our future. If that results in some veterans walking or being traded, then we probably saved some money. Next, DA needs to get the team an identity, all this BS he spouted in his first press conference is laughable now. He said teams would be unable to match our intensity, The only thing we are doing that's "unmatched" by another team, is the rate we are turning the ball over. Finally, if Pete C isn't strong enough to call the offense out for being awful, then we need someone who will. Payton demanded a level of play, players were scared to disappoint him. Honestly I don't see the issue being lack of talent or playcalling. I see it as execution and discipline. As diz here points out it is behaviors that need adjusted. It doesn't matter if the perfect play is called every time if the execution sucks. It doesn't matter if the player has all of the talent in the world if the discipline and fire isn't there to use it. The roster is full of very talented players. Trying to get rid of good players makes no sense whatsoever. As someone else pointed out here the NFL isn't like MLB. You can't wipe the slate clean and start anew with a fresh roster. MLB has a deep farm system. The NFL has only what you have on the roster and whatever is available in free agency and the draft. There's no promise of collecting a talent pool as good as we have right now for years, if at all. First I want to see what we look like once we start getting back some of the key pieces that have been missing. Word is that Thomas could be back as early as this coming week. Penning could be a couple of weeks away. Winston, Landy, and Lattimore have ten days to rejoin the active roster. I read that Kamara addressed the team after the game and made it clear the effort was not there and everyone need to start playing like the Saints he knows. I am coming around to the idea that the problem (aside from the rash of injuries) is with the motivation from the top. neugey and bobdog86 like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

10-21-2022, 02:31 PM	#3
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,308	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Honestly I don't see the issue being lack of talent or playcalling. I see it as execution and discipline. As diz here points out it is behaviors that need adjusted. It doesn't matter if the perfect play is called every time if the execution sucks. It doesn't matter if the player has all of the talent in the world if the discipline and fire isn't there to use it. The roster is full of very talented players. Trying to get rid of good players makes no sense whatsoever. As someone else pointed out here the NFL isn't like MLB. You can't wipe the slate clean and start anew with a fresh roster. MLB has a deep farm system. The NFL has only what you have on the roster and whatever is available in free agency and the draft. There's no promise of collecting a talent pool as good as we have right now for years, if at all. First I want to see what we look like once we start getting back some of the key pieces that have been missing. Word is that Thomas could be back as early as this coming week. Penning could be a couple of weeks away. Winston, Landy, and Lattimore have ten days to rejoin the active roster. I read that Kamara addressed the team after the game and made it clear the effort was not there and everyone need to start playing like the Saints he knows. I am coming around to the idea that the problem (aside from the rash of injuries) is with the motivation from the top. The Patriots got rid of many good players in the process of winning 6 super bowls. Managing the cap often does make sense. Getting younger with more upside on the roster often does make sense. You can't take a formula that won 6 rings and say it can't even possibly make sense. Also, we don't even have to get rid of good players. We can get rid of arguably bad players who would incur a cap hit to get rid of now but will free us up to get more actual good players later, get rid of Peat, Mathieu, Smith, Landry and Thomas if they never play. While it seems to make sense to have as many good players as possible at all times, the salary cap and timing effect things. If you accept having 70% of the talent of other teams one or two years, you can often afford to have 130% of the talent a later one or two years, and time your window. If you live in debt to the cap like we have been doing, you often end up with 90% of the talent you could have every year, because you lack the tools to get out of bad contracts like Peats and Hills.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,308

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode