Week Eight QB Debate

rezburna · 10-25-2022, 08:31 AM

There is no future in Andy Dalton. That’s an undeniable fact. He’s 34 years old. His career is basically over. You give Winston his last opportunity to save his career here in New Orleans. If he can’t do that I have no problem watching Hill.

AsylumGuido · 10-25-2022, 08:36 AM

I'd like to see Winston finish out the year (if healthy enough) and see if he can be what we want moving forward. He's still never been given a full chance here. Keep Dalton at QB2 so Taysom can be committed 100% to his joker role.

If Winston passes the test then we can look for another backup to replace Dalton next year.

TheOak · 10-25-2022, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

He's still never been given a full chance here.

Why? Lets not treat it like chances were not afforded him. What, in your mind, constitutes "given a full chance"? Winston has started 10 games for New Orleans, that's more than 1/2 a season.

AsylumGuido · 10-25-2022, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Why? Lets not treat it like chances were not afforded him. What, in your mind, constitutes "given a full chance"? Winston has started 10 games for New Orleans, that's more than 1/2 a season.

In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch.

This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover.

Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place.

TheOak · 10-27-2022, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch.

This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover.

Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place.

You, should never, ever, ever laugh at Bako's logic again.

All you have managed to do it list the outcome of many of the chances that both Payton and Allen have given him, players without chances do not get injured on the field. It is actually somewhat impossible.

Chance is also the wrong word to use, opportunity is what is given and every QB on this team has been given multiple opportunities to own the starting QB spot. Whether it be lack of talent, lack of consistency, or lack of health, none have been able to capitalized on the opportunities afforded them. They have all been temporary starters.

Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not.

Sinner · 11-04-2022, 04:44 PM

Keep protecting Dalton, he looks cooler under pressure, and with the pressure even cooler, he looks even cooler. Keep dialing up some Taysom surprises in the right dosage (even a few passes), play-makers keep making plays, DEFENSE NEEDS TO STAY HOT... and we just might be onto a winning streak.

Boston Saint · 11-04-2022, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

Keep protecting Dalton, he looks cooler under pressure, and with the pressure even cooler, he looks even cooler. Keep dialing up some Taysom surprises in the right dosage (even a few passes), play-makers keep making plays, DEFENSE NEEDS TO STAY HOT... and we just might be onto a winning streak.

The line blocks (both run and pass) like they did against the Raiders and we got a good chance.

WW_Who_Dat · 10-25-2022, 03:09 PM

Injured not injured I have not seen Winston be able to run the offense, read the defense and make the adjustments, go thru the progressions on passing plays in 2-3 second then move on the the check down short routes and intermediate route throws. Last year it was deep or next to nothing in between.

Pre injured to his knee he could scramble and keep the offense moving somewhat. That anti happening this year.

Not everything going wrong falls on Dalton but he show good Pre-snap recognition, can go thru the his progressions and take the short gain plays and has shown scramble ability.

If they stay with Dalton and he gets get a 1,2 or 3 receiver back or maybe 2 of the 3 the teams really needs to see that offense for a game or 2 with Dalton before making a change.

Winston coming back may give you deep play potential, which Dalton showed last week but can’t scramble or chooses not to.

Dalton and much healthier dose of Taysom … that’s the ticket.

dizzle88 · 10-25-2022, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Injured not injured I have not seen Winston be able to run the offense, read the defense and make the adjustments, go thru the progressions on passing plays in 2-3 second then move on the the check down short routes and intermediate route throws. Last year it was deep or next to nothing in between.

Pre injured to his knee he could scramble and keep the offense moving somewhat. That anti happening this year.

Not everything going wrong falls on Dalton but he show good Pre-snap recognition, can go thru the his progressions and take the short gain plays and has shown scramble ability.

If they stay with Dalton and he gets get a 1,2 or 3 receiver back or maybe 2 of the 3 the teams really needs to see that offense for a game or 2 with Dalton before making a change.

Winston coming back may give you deep play potential, which Dalton showed last week but can’t scramble or chooses not to.

Dalton and much healthier dose of Taysom … that’s the ticket.

From what I've seen of Winston, his first read is the only read.

Dalton, whilst he didn't have a great game, can score across all quarters.
Winston, typically scores in the 4th quarter, and it's a 50/50 of which team he's going to score for

AsylumGuido · 10-25-2022, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

From what I've seen of Winston, his first read is the only read.

Dalton, whilst he didn't have a great game, can score across all quarters.
Winston, typically scores in the 4th quarter, and it's a 50/50 of which team he's going to score for

Not saying what you've seen is completely wrong, but I know I have definitely seen Winston move through progressions. I don't doubt he sometimes feels he can make a throw on that first read if given any window at all, but I know I have seen him go from left to center to right, and visa versa, and have seen him check down short. It may have not always been the most accurate or touch laden check down, but he makes them.

I have searched for any sort of recent analysis of how he is his making reads, good or bad, but haven't been able to find one yet.

10-25-2022, 08:31 AM	#1
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,131	Re: Week Eight QB Debate There is no future in Andy Dalton. That’s an undeniable fact. He’s 34 years old. His career is basically over. You give Winston his last opportunity to save his career here in New Orleans. If he can’t do that I have no problem watching Hill. SmashMouth likes this.

10-25-2022, 08:36 AM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,849	Re: Week Eight QB Debate I'd like to see Winston finish out the year (if healthy enough) and see if he can be what we want moving forward. He's still never been given a full chance here. Keep Dalton at QB2 so Taysom can be committed 100% to his joker role. If Winston passes the test then we can look for another backup to replace Dalton next year. darksoul35 likes this.

10-25-2022, 01:23 PM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,059	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by AsylumGuido He's still never been given a full chance here. Why? Lets not treat it like chances were not afforded him. What, in your mind, constitutes "given a full chance"? Winston has started 10 games for New Orleans, that's more than 1/2 a season. subguy, jnormand, K Major and 1 others like this.

10-25-2022, 02:20 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,849	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by TheOak Why? Lets not treat it like chances were not afforded him. What, in your mind, constitutes "given a full chance"? Winston has started 10 games for New Orleans, that's more than 1/2 a season. In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch. This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover. Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place. darksoul35 and Big_L like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

10-27-2022, 04:42 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,059	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by AsylumGuido In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch. This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover. Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place. You, should never, ever, ever laugh at Bako's logic again. All you have managed to do it list the outcome of many of the chances that both Payton and Allen have given him, players without chances do not get injured on the field. It is actually somewhat impossible. Chance is also the wrong word to use, opportunity is what is given and every QB on this team has been given multiple opportunities to own the starting QB spot. Whether it be lack of talent, lack of consistency, or lack of health, none have been able to capitalized on the opportunities afforded them. They have all been temporary starters. Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not. subguy, SmashMouth and K Major like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

11-04-2022, 04:44 PM	#6
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,072	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Keep protecting Dalton, he looks cooler under pressure, and with the pressure even cooler, he looks even cooler. Keep dialing up some Taysom surprises in the right dosage (even a few passes), play-makers keep making plays, DEFENSE NEEDS TO STAY HOT... and we just might be onto a winning streak. Boston Saint likes this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,072

11-04-2022, 05:04 PM	#7
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by Sinner Keep protecting Dalton, he looks cooler under pressure, and with the pressure even cooler, he looks even cooler. Keep dialing up some Taysom surprises in the right dosage (even a few passes), play-makers keep making plays, DEFENSE NEEDS TO STAY HOT... and we just might be onto a winning streak. The line blocks (both run and pass) like they did against the Raiders and we got a good chance. Sinner likes this.

10-25-2022, 03:09 PM	#8
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,281 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Injured not injured I have not seen Winston be able to run the offense, read the defense and make the adjustments, go thru the progressions on passing plays in 2-3 second then move on the the check down short routes and intermediate route throws. Last year it was deep or next to nothing in between. Pre injured to his knee he could scramble and keep the offense moving somewhat. That anti happening this year. Not everything going wrong falls on Dalton but he show good Pre-snap recognition, can go thru the his progressions and take the short gain plays and has shown scramble ability. If they stay with Dalton and he gets get a 1,2 or 3 receiver back or maybe 2 of the 3 the teams really needs to see that offense for a game or 2 with Dalton before making a change. Winston coming back may give you deep play potential, which Dalton showed last week but can’t scramble or chooses not to. Dalton and much healthier dose of Taysom … that’s the ticket. subguy, jnormand, dizzle88 and 1 others like this.

10-25-2022, 04:55 PM	#9
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,560	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat Injured not injured I have not seen Winston be able to run the offense, read the defense and make the adjustments, go thru the progressions on passing plays in 2-3 second then move on the the check down short routes and intermediate route throws. Last year it was deep or next to nothing in between. Pre injured to his knee he could scramble and keep the offense moving somewhat. That anti happening this year. Not everything going wrong falls on Dalton but he show good Pre-snap recognition, can go thru the his progressions and take the short gain plays and has shown scramble ability. If they stay with Dalton and he gets get a 1,2 or 3 receiver back or maybe 2 of the 3 the teams really needs to see that offense for a game or 2 with Dalton before making a change. Winston coming back may give you deep play potential, which Dalton showed last week but can’t scramble or chooses not to. Dalton and much healthier dose of Taysom … that’s the ticket. From what I've seen of Winston, his first read is the only read. Dalton, whilst he didn't have a great game, can score across all quarters. Winston, typically scores in the 4th quarter, and it's a 50/50 of which team he's going to score for subguy and jnormand like this.

10-25-2022, 05:13 PM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,849	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by dizzle88 From what I've seen of Winston, his first read is the only read. Dalton, whilst he didn't have a great game, can score across all quarters. Winston, typically scores in the 4th quarter, and it's a 50/50 of which team he's going to score for Not saying what you've seen is completely wrong, but I know I have definitely seen Winston move through progressions. I don't doubt he sometimes feels he can make a throw on that first read if given any window at all, but I know I have seen him go from left to center to right, and visa versa, and have seen him check down short. It may have not always been the most accurate or touch laden check down, but he makes them. I have searched for any sort of recent analysis of how he is his making reads, good or bad, but haven't been able to find one yet.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill