Week Eight QB Debate

halloween 65 · 10-26-2022, 07:58 AM

If its a game management style of O it's Dalton all the way with a power run game and short to intermediate throws but he also has the deep ball. If it's going to be a high flying O it's Winston being able to throw tons of times.The thing is our O really has no identity. If any style I would prefer would be with a game management style right now. I would look to trade Kamara and find myself a 3 headed monster style of run game with decent backs even FA sitting at home and off pracice squads would be good enough I would get rid of Thomas in a trade also( can't help being in the tub most of 2 seasons) we have enough WR to do the job even with him out. Our O line would make a he!! of a power run game line and I do mean nasty. They can pass block also giving Dalton plenty enough time. Really none of fixing the O will matter if this no tackling, pi$$ poor play D WANT do their job. And the coaching right now looks like a deer in the headlights before it becomes road kill, that's got to change. What we have going on now looks like a joke, and yeah even with players coming back might help some but it;s not even going to come close to being enough.

saintsfan1976 · 10-26-2022, 08:22 AM

Stick with Dalton.

1. Quicker release
2. Quicker through progressions
3. Better statistics with less weapons
4. He's performed better than Winston
5. Rapport with current players

We can concentrate on his last "three INT game" but really ONE of those was his fault, the other he should've climbed the pocket but nine times out of ten, that kind of catch/return isn't made by a defender...

Dalton makes mistakes. Not at the rate Jameis has been this season. One more game. Keep it in the hand of the guy who's been getting it done.

AsylumGuido · 10-26-2022, 11:22 AM

Crusader · 10-26-2022, 03:57 PM

iceshack149 likes this.

Crusader · 10-26-2022, 03:58 PM

K Major likes this.

K Major · 10-26-2022, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Crusader

https://twitter.com/SeanFazendeFOX8/...57443554738176

Let's make it really simple for some people to grasp.

Jameis Winston has been benched in favor of Andy Dalton.

Priority #1 in 2023 is at the QB position. Better hope Sean Payton gets that itch and becomes a HC for a team next season.

Saints need draft picks.

rezburna · 10-26-2022, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Let's make it really simple for some people to grasp.

Jameis Winston has been benched in favor of Andy Dalton.

Priority #1 in 2023 is at the QB position. Better hope Sean Payton gets that itch and becomes a HC for a team next season.

Saints need draft picks.

This is why he has continued to fail as a head coach.

leilung · 10-26-2022, 04:51 PM

Our QB’s by the Numbers...

Given that we ALL have our biases based on history, experiences, and what we see, we’ve all drawn our own conclusions as to who we think should be starting QB going forward. I spent a few hours and did a dive into the numbers based on what we have so far in Hill, Dalton, and Winston and was kind of surprised at some of the stats. Before anyone proceeds to tell me that ‘stats don’t tell the whole story’ (and I know it’s coming) understand that stats are just numbers and CAN be manipulated to show a biased outcome. I am merely throwing this out as food for thought.

If you doubt anything I’m posting, feel free to do your own due diligence and counter my findings.

Here we go…

Dalton
4 Games| W-L: 1-3|Avg. Pass Yds: 236| Comp: 63%|Pass TD: 7|Avg. Rush Yds: 7| Rush TD: 0| INT: 4|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 90.5

Hill
9 Games| W-L: 7-2| Avg. Pass Yds. 195| Comp: 69%|Pass TD: 8|Avg. Rush Yds: 46| Rush TD: 4| INT: 7|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 90.8

Winston
10 Games| W-L: 6-4| Avg. Pass Yds. 202| Comp: 61%|Pass TD: 18|Avg. Rush Yds: 24| Rush TD: 1| INT: 8|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 89.7

Things I was surprised by
- Dalton > than Winston in avg. passing yardage /game.
- Hill > Dalton and Winston by a hair in QB Rating when I thought he would be lowest of the 3.
- Winston eclipses Hill and Dalton in passing TD’s by a mile. He also demonstrated the ability to put up strong numbers in spite of passing to mediocre WR’s (Smith, Callaway, Stills, Harty) in 2021 before his season ending injury. (Was this SP’s play calling/ coaching, was something finally clicking with his knowledge of the system, did holding a clipboard for Drew actually rub off or was it some combination of all of it?)
- Win/Loss seems to be something a lot of Hill backers are citing, but to be honest, those stats can be altered by quality of Defense/ Special Teams play which has NOTHING to do with the QB. (Think about Trent Dilfer in the Ravens SB run and you understand that.
So statistically speaking, (given some variables of injuries all around) no one QB really stands out and all 3 are pretty much in a dead heat. It all comes down to the coaches and who they think has best command of the offense I guess.

So now that the discussion is as clear as mud, has anyone changed their mind?

rezburna · 10-26-2022, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

Our QB’s by the Numbers...

Given that we ALL have our biases based on history, experiences, and what we see, we’ve all drawn our own conclusions as to who we think should be starting QB going forward. I spent a few hours and did a dive into the numbers based on what we have so far in Hill, Dalton, and Winston and was kind of surprised at some of the stats. Before anyone proceeds to tell me that ‘stats don’t tell the whole story’ (and I know it’s coming) understand that stats are just numbers and CAN be manipulated to show a biased outcome. I am merely throwing this out as food for thought.

If you doubt anything I’m posting, feel free to do your own due diligence and counter my findings.

Here we go…

Dalton
4 Games| W-L: 1-3|Avg. Pass Yds: 236| Comp: 63%|Pass TD: 7|Avg. Rush Yds: 7| Rush TD: 0| INT: 4|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 90.5

Hill
9 Games| W-L: 7-2| Avg. Pass Yds. 195| Comp: 69%|Pass TD: 8|Avg. Rush Yds: 46| Rush TD: 4| INT: 7|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 90.8

Winston
10 Games| W-L: 6-4| Avg. Pass Yds. 202| Comp: 61%|Pass TD: 18|Avg. Rush Yds: 24| Rush TD: 1| INT: 8|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 89.7

Things I was surprised by
- Dalton > than Winston in avg. passing yardage /game.
- Hill > Dalton and Winston by a hair in QB Rating when I thought he would be lowest of the 3.
- Winston eclipses Hill and Dalton in passing TD’s by a mile. He also demonstrated the ability to put up strong numbers in spite of passing to mediocre WR’s (Smith, Callaway, Stills, Harty) in 2021 before his season ending injury. (Was this SP’s play calling/ coaching, was something finally clicking with his knowledge of the system, did holding a clipboard for Drew actually rub off or was it some combination of all of it?)
- Win/Loss seems to be something a lot of Hill backers are citing, but to be honest, those stats can be altered by quality of Defense/ Special Teams play which has NOTHING to do with the QB. (Think about Trent Dilfer in the Ravens SB run and you understand that.
So statistically speaking, (given some variables of injuries all around) no one QB really stands out and all 3 are pretty much in a dead heat. It all comes down to the coaches and who they think has best command of the offense I guess.

So now that the discussion is as clear as mud, has anyone changed their mind?

You go with the youngest one and the one with the most natural are talent. Like I said before, Dalton’s career is over. And if you look at the history of his career he throws a lot of interceptions himself. Last week wasn’t a one off. I expect to see more of that the longer the leash gets.

leilung · 10-26-2022, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

You go with the youngest one and the one with the most natural are talent. Like I said before, Dalton’s career is over. And if you look at the history of his career he throws a lot of interceptions himself. Last week wasn’t a one off. I expect to see more of that the longer the leash gets.

This week will tell the tale.

10-26-2022, 07:58 AM	#31
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Week Eight QB Debate If its a game management style of O it's Dalton all the way with a power run game and short to intermediate throws but he also has the deep ball. If it's going to be a high flying O it's Winston being able to throw tons of times.The thing is our O really has no identity. If any style I would prefer would be with a game management style right now. I would look to trade Kamara and find myself a 3 headed monster style of run game with decent backs even FA sitting at home and off pracice squads would be good enough I would get rid of Thomas in a trade also( can't help being in the tub most of 2 seasons) we have enough WR to do the job even with him out. Our O line would make a he!! of a power run game line and I do mean nasty. They can pass block also giving Dalton plenty enough time. Really none of fixing the O will matter if this no tackling, pi$$ poor play D WANT do their job. And the coaching right now looks like a deer in the headlights before it becomes road kill, that's got to change. What we have going on now looks like a joke, and yeah even with players coming back might help some but it;s not even going to come close to being enough. Rugby Saint II likes this.

10-26-2022, 08:22 AM	#32
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,846 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Stick with Dalton. 1. Quicker release 2. Quicker through progressions 3. Better statistics with less weapons 4. He's performed better than Winston 5. Rapport with current players We can concentrate on his last "three INT game" but really ONE of those was his fault, the other he should've climbed the pocket but nine times out of ten, that kind of catch/return isn't made by a defender... Dalton makes mistakes. Not at the rate Jameis has been this season. One more game. Keep it in the hand of the guy who's been getting it done. dizzle88 likes this.

10-26-2022, 11:22 AM	#33
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Twitter

10-26-2022, 03:57 PM	#34
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Twitter iceshack149 likes this.

10-26-2022, 03:58 PM	#35
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Twitter K Major likes this.

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10-26-2022, 04:14 PM	#36
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by Crusader https://twitter.com/SeanFazendeFOX8/...57443554738176 Let's make it really simple for some people to grasp. Jameis Winston has been benched in favor of Andy Dalton. Priority #1 in 2023 is at the QB position. Better hope Sean Payton gets that itch and becomes a HC for a team next season. Saints need draft picks. saintsfan1976 and Rugby Saint II like this.

10-26-2022, 04:18 PM	#37
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,935	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by K Major Let's make it really simple for some people to grasp. Jameis Winston has been benched in favor of Andy Dalton. Priority #1 in 2023 is at the QB position. Better hope Sean Payton gets that itch and becomes a HC for a team next season. Saints need draft picks. This is why he has continued to fail as a head coach.

10-26-2022, 04:51 PM	#38
leilung Booty Bandit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Wastelands that are NJ Posts: 1,373	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Our QB’s by the Numbers... Given that we ALL have our biases based on history, experiences, and what we see, we’ve all drawn our own conclusions as to who we think should be starting QB going forward. I spent a few hours and did a dive into the numbers based on what we have so far in Hill, Dalton, and Winston and was kind of surprised at some of the stats. Before anyone proceeds to tell me that ‘stats don’t tell the whole story’ (and I know it’s coming) understand that stats are just numbers and CAN be manipulated to show a biased outcome. I am merely throwing this out as food for thought. If you doubt anything I’m posting, feel free to do your own due diligence and counter my findings. Here we go… Dalton 4 Games\| W-L: 1-3\|Avg. Pass Yds: 236\| Comp: 63%\|Pass TD: 7\|Avg. Rush Yds: 7\| Rush TD: 0\| INT: 4\|FL: 1\| Avg. QB Rating: 90.5 Hill 9 Games\| W-L: 7-2\| Avg. Pass Yds. 195\| Comp: 69%\|Pass TD: 8\|Avg. Rush Yds: 46\| Rush TD: 4\| INT: 7\|FL: 1\| Avg. QB Rating: 90.8 Winston 10 Games\| W-L: 6-4\| Avg. Pass Yds. 202\| Comp: 61%\|Pass TD: 18\|Avg. Rush Yds: 24\| Rush TD: 1\| INT: 8\|FL: 1\| Avg. QB Rating: 89.7 Things I was surprised by - Dalton > than Winston in avg. passing yardage /game. - Hill > Dalton and Winston by a hair in QB Rating when I thought he would be lowest of the 3. - Winston eclipses Hill and Dalton in passing TD’s by a mile. He also demonstrated the ability to put up strong numbers in spite of passing to mediocre WR’s (Smith, Callaway, Stills, Harty) in 2021 before his season ending injury. (Was this SP’s play calling/ coaching, was something finally clicking with his knowledge of the system, did holding a clipboard for Drew actually rub off or was it some combination of all of it?) - Win/Loss seems to be something a lot of Hill backers are citing, but to be honest, those stats can be altered by quality of Defense/ Special Teams play which has NOTHING to do with the QB. (Think about Trent Dilfer in the Ravens SB run and you understand that. So statistically speaking, (given some variables of injuries all around) no one QB really stands out and all 3 are pretty much in a dead heat. It all comes down to the coaches and who they think has best command of the offense I guess. So now that the discussion is as clear as mud, has anyone changed their mind? Rugby Saint II likes this.
	A wise man once said, "Poo-poo smells just as bad as s#!%. One just SOUNDS cuter!"

10-26-2022, 04:56 PM	#39
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,935	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by leilung Our QB’s by the Numbers... Given that we ALL have our biases based on history, experiences, and what we see, we’ve all drawn our own conclusions as to who we think should be starting QB going forward. I spent a few hours and did a dive into the numbers based on what we have so far in Hill, Dalton, and Winston and was kind of surprised at some of the stats. Before anyone proceeds to tell me that ‘stats don’t tell the whole story’ (and I know it’s coming) understand that stats are just numbers and CAN be manipulated to show a biased outcome. I am merely throwing this out as food for thought. If you doubt anything I’m posting, feel free to do your own due diligence and counter my findings. Here we go… Dalton 4 Games\| W-L: 1-3\|Avg. Pass Yds: 236\| Comp: 63%\|Pass TD: 7\|Avg. Rush Yds: 7\| Rush TD: 0\| INT: 4\|FL: 1\| Avg. QB Rating: 90.5 Hill 9 Games\| W-L: 7-2\| Avg. Pass Yds. 195\| Comp: 69%\|Pass TD: 8\|Avg. Rush Yds: 46\| Rush TD: 4\| INT: 7\|FL: 1\| Avg. QB Rating: 90.8 Winston 10 Games\| W-L: 6-4\| Avg. Pass Yds. 202\| Comp: 61%\|Pass TD: 18\|Avg. Rush Yds: 24\| Rush TD: 1\| INT: 8\|FL: 1\| Avg. QB Rating: 89.7 Things I was surprised by - Dalton > than Winston in avg. passing yardage /game. - Hill > Dalton and Winston by a hair in QB Rating when I thought he would be lowest of the 3. - Winston eclipses Hill and Dalton in passing TD’s by a mile. He also demonstrated the ability to put up strong numbers in spite of passing to mediocre WR’s (Smith, Callaway, Stills, Harty) in 2021 before his season ending injury. (Was this SP’s play calling/ coaching, was something finally clicking with his knowledge of the system, did holding a clipboard for Drew actually rub off or was it some combination of all of it?) - Win/Loss seems to be something a lot of Hill backers are citing, but to be honest, those stats can be altered by quality of Defense/ Special Teams play which has NOTHING to do with the QB. (Think about Trent Dilfer in the Ravens SB run and you understand that. So statistically speaking, (given some variables of injuries all around) no one QB really stands out and all 3 are pretty much in a dead heat. It all comes down to the coaches and who they think has best command of the offense I guess. So now that the discussion is as clear as mud, has anyone changed their mind? You go with the youngest one and the one with the most natural are talent. Like I said before, Dalton’s career is over. And if you look at the history of his career he throws a lot of interceptions himself. Last week wasn’t a one off. I expect to see more of that the longer the leash gets. leilung likes this.

10-26-2022, 05:41 PM	#40
leilung Booty Bandit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Wastelands that are NJ Posts: 1,373	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by rezburna You go with the youngest one and the one with the most natural are talent. Like I said before, Dalton’s career is over. And if you look at the history of his career he throws a lot of interceptions himself. Last week wasn’t a one off. I expect to see more of that the longer the leash gets. This week will tell the tale.