Michael Thomas to IR

mapcow · 11-04-2022, 09:17 AM

the prima donna is a slacker....get rid of him. He sure got a lot of you fooled.

Boston Saint · 11-04-2022, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by mapcow

the prima donna is a slacker....get rid of him. He sure got a lot of you fooled.

Can’t get rid of him. Contract makes it practically impossible. Get used to it.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 11-04-2022, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Can’t get rid of him. Contract makes it practically impossible. Get used to it.

Boston,

I used to agree with this sentiment, but I don't think that's actually true. Come 2023 the Saints are stuck between a rock and a hard place with MT13's contract. It's the first year of the big money ($15.5 million salary) and the big cap hit ($28+ million)

The rock are those numbers. The hard place is that to get rid of those numbers and keep the player, the Saints will have to restructure or extend the current contract. And unfortunately with MT13's 3 year injury history, there simply isn't a scenario that supports that option.

It looks like the only option that makes sense now is to trade/cut MT13 after June 1 of next year. It'll be a $11 million hit in 2023 and I believe an additional $16 million in 2024.

Maybe MT13 will step up and agree to play for the Saints in 2023 for a pay cut. But that's a rare rare option that most NFL players will refuse to take.

SFIAH

Boston Saint · 11-04-2022, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Boston,

I used to agree with this sentiment, but I don't think that's actually true. Come 2023 the Saints are stuck between a rock and a hard place with MT13's contract. It's the first year of the big money ($15.5 million salary) and the big cap hit ($28+ million)

The rock are those numbers. The hard place is that to get rid of those numbers and keep the player, the Saints will have to restructure or extend the current contract. And unfortunately with MT13's 3 year injury history, there simply isn't a scenario that supports that option.

It looks like the only option that makes sense now is to trade/cut MT13 after June 1 of next year. It'll be a $11 million hit in 2023 and I believe an additional $16 million in 2024.

Maybe MT13 will step up and agree to play for the Saints in 2023 for a pay cut. But that's a rare rare option that most NFL players will refuse to take.

SFIAH

We shall see. Those are close to the numbers spotrac has as well. Being in the situation they are now 11 and then 13 dead is still too much to take. Restructure will likely happen. Time will tell.

Edit: another thing to note is teams need to be under the cap by March 16th. Waiting until June 1st to deal with his cap hit isn’t an option. A big question too is when hi is likely to “return” after this latest procedure.

Rugby Saint II · 11-04-2022, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

We shall see. Those are close to the numbers spotrac has as well. Being in the situation they are now 11 and then 13 dead is still too much to take. Restructure will likely happen. Time will tell.

Edit: another thing to note is teams need to be under the cap by March 16th. Waiting until June 1st to deal with his cap hit isn’t an option. A big question too is when hi is likely to “return” after this latest procedure.

Oh lord no. Please don't give one more contract extension just to free money up next year. Those contracts prohibit long term growth and we need to get younger in the draft. Play him next year and see what happens.🙈 We could get lucky and have a com back season......don't laugh!

SaintFanInATLHELL · 11-05-2022, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Oh lord no. Please don't give one more contract extension just to free money up next year. Those contracts prohibit long term growth and we need to get younger in the draft. Play him next year and see what happens.🙈 We could get lucky and have a com back season......don't laugh!

Again I don't think that it is possible. With the current contract MT13 counts $28 million against the cap next year. If the Saints want to keep him and they want to free up the money, the only option is a straight pay cut. No player is going to accept that especially with MT13's talent when healthy. There are a number other teams that will roll the dice and pay him a huge new contract with a healthy signing bonus to acquire such talent.

Edit: I think a lot of fans make the mistake of thinking that a restructure or extension or a pay cut is a one sided team option that the player has no input on. As many folks like to tout, the contract is the contract. The player and his representation have to agree to any changes. Typically it happens because both side benefit. The team frees up cap space. The player get guaranteed money in exchange. Take that option away, and the player has no incentive to change anything. That puts the team in a serious cap problem. The only way out of the contract for the team that unilateral is to cut the player. But then the team is still on the hook for any dead bonus money that's paid earlier in the contract.

If MT13 plays for the Saints next year, it's under a restructure or an extension. If you don't want that, the only other option is to cut/trade him.

There's no having cake (having the player play for you) and eating it too (not having an extension/restructure). It's simply not an option.

SFIAH

Boston Saint · 11-05-2022, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Again I don't think that it is possible. With the current contract MT13 counts $28 million against the cap next year. If the Saints want to keep him and they want to free up the money, the only option is a straight pay cut. No player is going to accept that especially with MT13's talent when healthy. There are a number other teams that will roll the dice and pay him a huge new contract with a healthy signing bonus to acquire such talent.

If MT13 plays for the Saints next year, it's under a restructure or an extension. If you don't want that, the only other option is to cut/trade him.

There's no having cake (having the player play for you) and eating it too (not having an extension/restructure). It's simply not an option.

SFIAH

What did you think SFIAH about my point on them needing to get below the salary cap by the March deadline. Doesn’t seem that they can wait on a post June date to cut/trade him.

BakoSaint · 11-05-2022, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Again I don't think that it is possible. With the current contract MT13 counts $28 million against the cap next year. If the Saints want to keep him and they want to free up the money, the only option is a straight pay cut. No player is going to accept that especially with MT13's talent when healthy. There are a number other teams that will roll the dice and pay him a huge new contract with a healthy signing bonus to acquire such talent.

If MT13 plays for the Saints next year, it's under a restructure or an extension. If you don't want that, the only other option is to cut/trade him.

There's no having cake (having the player play for you) and eating it too (not having an extension/restructure). It's simply not an option.

SFIAH

I disagree. There is a great precedent for MT’s value on the open market. Victor Cruz was an elite wide receiver with the Giants. Then he had a 3 year period where he was largely injured and flashed potential but could not put it all together. The Giants cut him and the Bears signed him in 2017. He got a 1 year $2 million deal with $500k signing bonus, did not make the team in training camp, and retired. He was a similar age to Michael Thomas now with elite talent when healthy. There are some differences in the situation and you can argue Thomas might have a little more upside than Cruz did then but overall the precedents for a player missing 40 of 50 games over 3 years and then returning to prove worth a big contract are extremely extremely rare and the precedents for a downward spiral are extremely extremely common. If Michael Thomas gets a big contract this offseason I hope and pray its with a division rival because it would be a horrible gamble.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-...tor-cruz-8203/

Rugby Saint II · 11-04-2022, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

We shall see. Those are close to the numbers spotrac has as well. Being in the situation they are now 11 and then 13 dead is still too much to take. Restructure will likely happen. Time will tell.

Edit: another thing to note is teams need to be under the cap by March 16th. Waiting until June 1st to deal with his cap hit isn’t an option. A big question too is when hi is likely to “return” after this latest procedure.

Oh lord no. Please don't give one more contract extension just to free money up next year. Those contracts prohibit long term growth and we need to get younger in the draft. Play him next year and see what happens.🙈 We could get lucky and have a com back season......don't laugh!

Sorry about the double post. Yes I've been m drinking.

Boston Saint · 11-04-2022, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Oh lord no. Please don't give one more contract extension just to free money up next year. Those contracts prohibit long term growth and we need to get younger in the draft. Play him next year and see what happens.🙈 We could get lucky and have a com back season......don't laugh!

Sorry about the double post. Yes I've been m drinking.

Fortunately I don't know what Im talking about Rugby!

11-04-2022, 09:17 AM	#1
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,335	Re: Michael Thomas to IR the prima donna is a slacker....get rid of him. He sure got a lot of you fooled.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,335

11-04-2022, 02:19 PM	#2
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,895	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by mapcow the prima donna is a slacker....get rid of him. He sure got a lot of you fooled. Can’t get rid of him. Contract makes it practically impossible. Get used to it. Rugby Saint II likes this.

11-04-2022, 02:34 PM	#3
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by Boston Saint Can’t get rid of him. Contract makes it practically impossible. Get used to it. Boston, I used to agree with this sentiment, but I don't think that's actually true. Come 2023 the Saints are stuck between a rock and a hard place with MT13's contract. It's the first year of the big money ($15.5 million salary) and the big cap hit ($28+ million) The rock are those numbers. The hard place is that to get rid of those numbers and keep the player, the Saints will have to restructure or extend the current contract. And unfortunately with MT13's 3 year injury history, there simply isn't a scenario that supports that option. It looks like the only option that makes sense now is to trade/cut MT13 after June 1 of next year. It'll be a $11 million hit in 2023 and I believe an additional $16 million in 2024. Maybe MT13 will step up and agree to play for the Saints in 2023 for a pay cut. But that's a rare rare option that most NFL players will refuse to take. SFIAH Boston Saint likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

11-04-2022, 02:50 PM	#4
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,895	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Boston, I used to agree with this sentiment, but I don't think that's actually true. Come 2023 the Saints are stuck between a rock and a hard place with MT13's contract. It's the first year of the big money ($15.5 million salary) and the big cap hit ($28+ million) The rock are those numbers. The hard place is that to get rid of those numbers and keep the player, the Saints will have to restructure or extend the current contract. And unfortunately with MT13's 3 year injury history, there simply isn't a scenario that supports that option. It looks like the only option that makes sense now is to trade/cut MT13 after June 1 of next year. It'll be a $11 million hit in 2023 and I believe an additional $16 million in 2024. Maybe MT13 will step up and agree to play for the Saints in 2023 for a pay cut. But that's a rare rare option that most NFL players will refuse to take. SFIAH We shall see. Those are close to the numbers spotrac has as well. Being in the situation they are now 11 and then 13 dead is still too much to take. Restructure will likely happen. Time will tell. Edit: another thing to note is teams need to be under the cap by March 16th. Waiting until June 1st to deal with his cap hit isn’t an option. A big question too is when hi is likely to “return” after this latest procedure.

11-04-2022, 06:26 PM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,792	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by Boston Saint We shall see. Those are close to the numbers spotrac has as well. Being in the situation they are now 11 and then 13 dead is still too much to take. Restructure will likely happen. Time will tell. Edit: another thing to note is teams need to be under the cap by March 16th. Waiting until June 1st to deal with his cap hit isn’t an option. A big question too is when hi is likely to “return” after this latest procedure. Oh lord no. Please don't give one more contract extension just to free money up next year. Those contracts prohibit long term growth and we need to get younger in the draft. Play him next year and see what happens.🙈 We could get lucky and have a com back season......don't laugh!

11-05-2022, 10:37 AM	#6
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Oh lord no. Please don't give one more contract extension just to free money up next year. Those contracts prohibit long term growth and we need to get younger in the draft. Play him next year and see what happens.🙈 We could get lucky and have a com back season......don't laugh! Again I don't think that it is possible. With the current contract MT13 counts $28 million against the cap next year. If the Saints want to keep him and they want to free up the money, the only option is a straight pay cut. No player is going to accept that especially with MT13's talent when healthy. There are a number other teams that will roll the dice and pay him a huge new contract with a healthy signing bonus to acquire such talent. Edit: I think a lot of fans make the mistake of thinking that a restructure or extension or a pay cut is a one sided team option that the player has no input on. As many folks like to tout, the contract is the contract. The player and his representation have to agree to any changes. Typically it happens because both side benefit. The team frees up cap space. The player get guaranteed money in exchange. Take that option away, and the player has no incentive to change anything. That puts the team in a serious cap problem. The only way out of the contract for the team that unilateral is to cut the player. But then the team is still on the hook for any dead bonus money that's paid earlier in the contract. If MT13 plays for the Saints next year, it's under a restructure or an extension. If you don't want that, the only other option is to cut/trade him. There's no having cake (having the player play for you) and eating it too (not having an extension/restructure). It's simply not an option. SFIAH Rugby Saint II and Boston Saint like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

11-05-2022, 10:49 AM	#7
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,895	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Again I don't think that it is possible. With the current contract MT13 counts $28 million against the cap next year. If the Saints want to keep him and they want to free up the money, the only option is a straight pay cut. No player is going to accept that especially with MT13's talent when healthy. There are a number other teams that will roll the dice and pay him a huge new contract with a healthy signing bonus to acquire such talent. If MT13 plays for the Saints next year, it's under a restructure or an extension. If you don't want that, the only other option is to cut/trade him. There's no having cake (having the player play for you) and eating it too (not having an extension/restructure). It's simply not an option. SFIAH What did you think SFIAH about my point on them needing to get below the salary cap by the March deadline. Doesn’t seem that they can wait on a post June date to cut/trade him.

11-05-2022, 10:56 AM	#8
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,778	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Again I don't think that it is possible. With the current contract MT13 counts $28 million against the cap next year. If the Saints want to keep him and they want to free up the money, the only option is a straight pay cut. No player is going to accept that especially with MT13's talent when healthy. There are a number other teams that will roll the dice and pay him a huge new contract with a healthy signing bonus to acquire such talent. If MT13 plays for the Saints next year, it's under a restructure or an extension. If you don't want that, the only other option is to cut/trade him. There's no having cake (having the player play for you) and eating it too (not having an extension/restructure). It's simply not an option. SFIAH I disagree. There is a great precedent for MT’s value on the open market. Victor Cruz was an elite wide receiver with the Giants. Then he had a 3 year period where he was largely injured and flashed potential but could not put it all together. The Giants cut him and the Bears signed him in 2017. He got a 1 year $2 million deal with $500k signing bonus, did not make the team in training camp, and retired. He was a similar age to Michael Thomas now with elite talent when healthy. There are some differences in the situation and you can argue Thomas might have a little more upside than Cruz did then but overall the precedents for a player missing 40 of 50 games over 3 years and then returning to prove worth a big contract are extremely extremely rare and the precedents for a downward spiral are extremely extremely common. If Michael Thomas gets a big contract this offseason I hope and pray its with a division rival because it would be a horrible gamble. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-...tor-cruz-8203/
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,778

11-04-2022, 06:30 PM	#9
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,792	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by Boston Saint We shall see. Those are close to the numbers spotrac has as well. Being in the situation they are now 11 and then 13 dead is still too much to take. Restructure will likely happen. Time will tell. Edit: another thing to note is teams need to be under the cap by March 16th. Waiting until June 1st to deal with his cap hit isn’t an option. A big question too is when hi is likely to “return” after this latest procedure. Oh lord no. Please don't give one more contract extension just to free money up next year. Those contracts prohibit long term growth and we need to get younger in the draft. Play him next year and see what happens.🙈 We could get lucky and have a com back season......don't laugh! Sorry about the double post. Yes I've been m drinking. Boston Saint likes this.

11-04-2022, 06:52 PM	#10
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,895	Re: Michael Thomas to IR Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Oh lord no. Please don't give one more contract extension just to free money up next year. Those contracts prohibit long term growth and we need to get younger in the draft. Play him next year and see what happens.🙈 We could get lucky and have a com back season......don't laugh! Sorry about the double post. Yes I've been m drinking. Fortunately I don't know what Im talking about Rugby! Rugby Saint II likes this.