Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Ravens

AsylumGuido · 11-09-2022, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

- Has anyone done analysis on our injuries on Turf vs. Grass? Does the Dome need to be resurfaced to get our guys out of the blue tent?

Apparently a recent study shows there isn't much of a difference.

That said, I do know that a greater number of turf toe injuries have been tied to the ultra lightweight shoes that many players started wearing recently. There is virtually no support and it is becoming more and more common to hyperextend the toes even while wearing the shoes.

leilung likes this.

Boston Saint · 11-09-2022, 06:45 PM

Responding to rez and Major’s upcoming FA QB posts, I Just checked out Gardner’s stats:

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...M/MinsGa00.htm

I’m impressed. Better than a 3:1 career TD to Int ratio, most of that playing with a dysfunctional Jacksonville franchise. I’d definitely kick the tires on him.

rezburna · 11-09-2022, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Apparently a recent study shows there isn't much of a difference.

https://twitter.com/SeifertESPN/stat...57655922049024

That said, I do know that a greater number of turf toe injuries have been tied to the ultra lightweight shoes that many players started wearing recently. There is virtually no support and it is becoming more and more common to hyperextend the toes even while wearing the shoes.

I preferred the turf myself.

rezburna · 11-09-2022, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

These two for me.

Both are relatively young, probably won't break the bank and some upside.

Right.

BakoSaint · 11-09-2022, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Apparently a recent study shows there isn't much of a difference.

https://twitter.com/SeifertESPN/stat...57655922049024

That said, I do know that a greater number of turf toe injuries have been tied to the ultra lightweight shoes that many players started wearing recently. There is virtually no support and it is becoming more and more common to hyperextend the toes even while wearing the shoes.

I question these stats. Just looking at the graph, the injuries on natural grass are lower all four years from 2018-2021, ranging from 25% lower in 2019 to 2.5% lower in 2021. It looks like they were about 15% lower in 2018 and 2020 so that would be above the average. Also notice that the graph tracks a very specific subset of injuries: non contact injuries to the knee, ankle, and foot. It also has a very specific metric of missed time and we have no idea how they count that with free agents, retirements, suspensions, etc. I am always suspicious when I see something like that because if you have a lot of knobs you can turn playing with statistics you can often get the result you want, and specifying non contact vs contact injuries and three specific body parts seems like a lot of filtering to get the results they want. I would like to see a lot more graphs of different injury types and ways of measuring impact. Perhaps if they had looked at contact injuries to the toe, hips, and shin and measured by the number of surgical procedures or retirements not theoretical games missed, the injuries would have been double on artificial turf.

The NFL does not want to be liable for injuries or upset its owners big investments so I don't trust them to throw out one graph of their choosing that shows 15% less injuries on natural grass and even believe that graph is representative, much less that 15% means zero difference. I take take 15% to be the minimum difference.

Boston Saint · 11-10-2022, 07:03 AM

Pretty good video here about how Smith helped shut down the Saints ..

YouTube

NFLguy2022 · 11-11-2022, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Geno Smith (32 years old)
Baker Mayfield (27 years old)
Sam Darnold (25 years old)
Jimmy Garoppolo (31 years old)
Daniel Jones (25 years old)
Tyler Huntley (25 years old)
Gardner Minshew (26 years old)

Lamar if you can sign him or if you'd want him. Out of that group I think Id take my chances with Lamar IMO.

11-09-2022, 03:41 PM	#51
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Ravens Originally Posted by leilung - Has anyone done analysis on our injuries on Turf vs. Grass? Does the Dome need to be resurfaced to get our guys out of the blue tent? Apparently a recent study shows there isn't much of a difference. Twitter That said, I do know that a greater number of turf toe injuries have been tied to the ultra lightweight shoes that many players started wearing recently. There is virtually no support and it is becoming more and more common to hyperextend the toes even while wearing the shoes. leilung likes this.

11-09-2022, 06:45 PM	#52
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,874	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Ravens Responding to rez and Major’s upcoming FA QB posts, I Just checked out Gardner’s stats: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...M/MinsGa00.htm I’m impressed. Better than a 3:1 career TD to Int ratio, most of that playing with a dysfunctional Jacksonville franchise. I’d definitely kick the tires on him. leilung, SmashMouth and rezburna like this.

11-09-2022, 08:34 PM	#53
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,662	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Ravens Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Apparently a recent study shows there isn't much of a difference. https://twitter.com/SeifertESPN/stat...57655922049024 That said, I do know that a greater number of turf toe injuries have been tied to the ultra lightweight shoes that many players started wearing recently. There is virtually no support and it is becoming more and more common to hyperextend the toes even while wearing the shoes. I preferred the turf myself.

11-09-2022, 08:35 PM	#54
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,662	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Ravens Originally Posted by K Major These two for me. Both are relatively young, probably won't break the bank and some upside. Right.

11-09-2022, 09:36 PM	#55
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,758	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Ravens Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Apparently a recent study shows there isn't much of a difference. https://twitter.com/SeifertESPN/stat...57655922049024 That said, I do know that a greater number of turf toe injuries have been tied to the ultra lightweight shoes that many players started wearing recently. There is virtually no support and it is becoming more and more common to hyperextend the toes even while wearing the shoes. I question these stats. Just looking at the graph, the injuries on natural grass are lower all four years from 2018-2021, ranging from 25% lower in 2019 to 2.5% lower in 2021. It looks like they were about 15% lower in 2018 and 2020 so that would be above the average. Also notice that the graph tracks a very specific subset of injuries: non contact injuries to the knee, ankle, and foot. It also has a very specific metric of missed time and we have no idea how they count that with free agents, retirements, suspensions, etc. I am always suspicious when I see something like that because if you have a lot of knobs you can turn playing with statistics you can often get the result you want, and specifying non contact vs contact injuries and three specific body parts seems like a lot of filtering to get the results they want. I would like to see a lot more graphs of different injury types and ways of measuring impact. Perhaps if they had looked at contact injuries to the toe, hips, and shin and measured by the number of surgical procedures or retirements not theoretical games missed, the injuries would have been double on artificial turf. The NFL does not want to be liable for injuries or upset its owners big investments so I don't trust them to throw out one graph of their choosing that shows 15% less injuries on natural grass and even believe that graph is representative, much less that 15% means zero difference. I take take 15% to be the minimum difference.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,758

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11-11-2022, 02:20 PM	#57
NFLguy2022 Rookie Join Date: Oct 2022 Posts: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Ravens Originally Posted by rezburna Geno Smith (32 years old) Baker Mayfield (27 years old) Sam Darnold (25 years old) Jimmy Garoppolo (31 years old) Daniel Jones (25 years old) Tyler Huntley (25 years old) Gardner Minshew (26 years old) Lamar if you can sign him or if you'd want him. Out of that group I think Id take my chances with Lamar IMO.
NFLguy2022 Rookie Join Date: Oct 2022 Posts: 3