Is it time to shake up upper management?

Boston Saint · 11-16-2022, 10:41 AM

Yeah, I felt really good going into game 1 until that trade happened. I (we) can only guess as to what happened and why we got so apparently little. On the surface it seems like a bad deal for the Saints. But I doubt we will know what happened in truth. CGJ is an emotional player and personality. Could be after negotiations broke down CGJ said “trade me to Philly. If you trade me anywhere else I’ll be a problem for my new team. If you don’t trade me I’ll be a problem for yours”. So the Saints decided to get what they could. Could be there were teams offering more than what Philly was and the front office/DA was dumb enough to take Philly’s offer anyway. Somehow I doubt that was the case.

Regardless, how much cap space they had certainly made a difference.

AsylumGuido · 11-16-2022, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Yeah, I felt really good going into game 1 until that trade happened. I (we) can only guess as to what happened and why we got so apparently little. On the surface it seems like a bad deal for the Saints. But I doubt we will know what happened in truth. CGJ is an emotional player and personality. Could be after negotiations broke down CGJ said “trade me to Philly. If you trade me anywhere else I’ll be a problem for my new team. If you don’t trade me I’ll be a problem for yours”. So the Saints decided to get what they could. Could be there were teams offering more than what Philly was and the front office/DA was dumb enough to take Philly’s offer anyway. Somehow I doubt that was the case.

Regardless, how much cap space they had certainly made a difference.

Don't forget they had a ton of cap space that they had cleared for the run after Deshaun Watson.

C.J. Gardner-Johnson’s behavior towards Saints coaches reportedly paved way for trade

Scott Rogust - Aug 30

The New Orleans Saints trading defensive back C.J. Gardner Johnson to the Philadelphia Eagles shocked many. But according to one report, it was bound to happen.

On Aug. 30, the day of the NFL's roster cutdown deadline, the New Orleans Saints made a rather shocking decision. They decided to trade safety C.J. Gardner-Johnson and a 2025 seventh-round pick to the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for a 2023 fifth-round pick and a 2024 sixth-round pick. The move made Philadelphia's active offseason that much better. But why would the Saints trade away their talented defensive back?

According to New Orleans Football's Nick Underhill (subscription required), the Saints let it be known that they were not going to re-sign Gardner-Johnson "on his terms." Not only that, but Underhill reports that Gardner-Johnson "stopped taking coaching."

papz · 11-16-2022, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Don't forget they had a ton of cap space that they had cleared for the run after Deshaun Watson.

Key word.

All that money was soon spoken for.

Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose.

Boston Saint · 11-16-2022, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Key word.

All that money was soon spoken for.

Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose.

Guido is delusional

AsylumGuido · 11-16-2022, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Key word.

All that money was soon spoken for.

Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Guido is delusional

No. All that money was not spoken for. Not delusional at all. The facts are that Gardner-Johnson was still under contract for 2022 under his original 4 year deal he signed with the Saints. We had, and still have plenty of 2023 cap available to make any number of deals, including an extension for him. He was wanting a new contract for more than we were willing to pay. But he refused to practice under his current contract and refused to do as the coaches asked under his current contract. They finally decided to trade him the final day before final cuts to 53. They could have just cut him and got nothing in return.

papz · 11-17-2022, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

No. All that money was not spoken for. Not delusional at all. The facts are that Gardner-Johnson was still under contract for 2022 under his original 4 year deal he signed with the Saints. We had, and still have plenty of 2023 cap available to make any number of deals, including an extension for him. He was wanting a new contract for more than we were willing to pay. But he refused to practice under his current contract and refused to do as the coaches asked under his current contract. They finally decided to trade him the final day before final cuts to 53. They could have just cut him and got nothing in return.

Where's this money you're talking about?

We signed Maye, re-signed Winston, Mathieu, and Landry. All of this was done by the middle of May. CGJ saw all of this and wanted to get his being that he's under the last year of his rookie contract. Players re-negoiate all the time coming into the last year of their contract. Ideally you want to lock up players that important to your team prior to them hitting free agency. He took it as a slap in the face and started acting out. That could have been avoided completely. We let two young, damn good football players leave for practically nothing. At least one had to be re-signed and we dropped the ball because of what? Money we didn't have. We're scrambling at the beginning of every off season manipulating contracts to find more cap space. Like I said and how you completely ignore how it would be more advantageous, to start an off season for once, ahead of the curve and not behind. The strategy makes more sense for a team ready to compete for a championship.

We currently have a little less than 3 million in cap space. You actually think that's enough to give him a serious offer? And no, we did not have to trade him. We could have put him on the roster and waited for a better deal as well.

Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once.

Boston Saint · 11-17-2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once.

LOL. We are talking about Guido here papz.

AsylumGuido · 11-17-2022, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Where's this money you're talking about?

We signed Maye, re-signed Winston, Mathieu, and Landry. All of this was done by the middle of May. CGJ saw all of this and wanted to get his being that he's under the last year of his rookie contract. Players re-negoiate all the time coming into the last year of their contract. Ideally you want to lock up players that important to your team prior to them hitting free agency. He took it as a slap in the face and started acting out. That could have been avoided completely. We let two young, damn good football players leave for practically nothing. At least one had to be re-signed and we dropped the ball because of what? Money we didn't have. We're scrambling at the beginning of every off season manipulating contracts to find more cap space. Like I said and how you completely ignore how it would be more advantageous, to start an off season for once, ahead of the curve and not behind. The strategy makes more sense for a team ready to compete for a championship.

We currently have a little less than 3 million in cap space. You actually think that's enough to give him a serious offer? And no, we did not have to trade him. We could have put him on the roster and waited for a better deal as well.

Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once.

You are missing the point that the 2022 cap has nothing to do with the contract demands of Gardner-Johnson. He was already under contract for 2022, the final year of his original 4 year contract. He was refusing to practice while wanting a new 2023 contract. We have about $100 million in convertible cap available for 2023 in base salaries and bonuses. Money was not a problem. Philly is paying him his final year salary per his original contract. He hasn't received an additional penny yet. He is still on the same contract.

A second scenario: Let's say CGJ was indeed wanting to redo his final year as part of an extension which I believe you are trying to suggest. He was already on the books for a $2.7 million salary for 2022. They could have actually saved 2022 cap by redoing his final year by converting that $2.7 million into a signing bonus and spreading it over the term of his new deal. Let's say four years. That would make his 2022 base a little over $500K freeing up over $2 million in 2022 cap. They could have then made his 2023-26 salaries whatever was required not affecting the 2022 cap.

That's where the money is. The money was there. He was traded because he refused to practice and wouldn't work with the coaches. Pure and simple.

11-16-2022, 10:41 AM	#1
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Yeah, I felt really good going into game 1 until that trade happened. I (we) can only guess as to what happened and why we got so apparently little. On the surface it seems like a bad deal for the Saints. But I doubt we will know what happened in truth. CGJ is an emotional player and personality. Could be after negotiations broke down CGJ said “trade me to Philly. If you trade me anywhere else I’ll be a problem for my new team. If you don’t trade me I’ll be a problem for yours”. So the Saints decided to get what they could. Could be there were teams offering more than what Philly was and the front office/DA was dumb enough to take Philly’s offer anyway. Somehow I doubt that was the case. Regardless, how much cap space they had certainly made a difference.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

11-16-2022, 11:17 AM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,953	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Yeah, I felt really good going into game 1 until that trade happened. I (we) can only guess as to what happened and why we got so apparently little. On the surface it seems like a bad deal for the Saints. But I doubt we will know what happened in truth. CGJ is an emotional player and personality. Could be after negotiations broke down CGJ said “trade me to Philly. If you trade me anywhere else I’ll be a problem for my new team. If you don’t trade me I’ll be a problem for yours”. So the Saints decided to get what they could. Could be there were teams offering more than what Philly was and the front office/DA was dumb enough to take Philly’s offer anyway. Somehow I doubt that was the case. Regardless, how much cap space they had certainly made a difference. Don't forget they had a ton of cap space that they had cleared for the run after Deshaun Watson. C.J. Gardner-Johnson’s behavior towards Saints coaches reportedly paved way for trade Scott Rogust - Aug 30 The New Orleans Saints trading defensive back C.J. Gardner Johnson to the Philadelphia Eagles shocked many. But according to one report, it was bound to happen. On Aug. 30, the day of the NFL's roster cutdown deadline, the New Orleans Saints made a rather shocking decision. They decided to trade safety C.J. Gardner-Johnson and a 2025 seventh-round pick to the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for a 2023 fifth-round pick and a 2024 sixth-round pick. The move made Philadelphia's active offseason that much better. But why would the Saints trade away their talented defensive back? According to New Orleans Football's Nick Underhill (subscription required), the Saints let it be known that they were not going to re-sign Gardner-Johnson "on his terms." Not only that, but Underhill reports that Gardner-Johnson "stopped taking coaching."
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-16-2022, 01:17 PM	#3
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,802	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Don't forget they had a ton of cap space that they had cleared for the run after Deshaun Watson. Key word. All that money was soon spoken for. Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose. saintsfan1976, SmashMouth, halloween 65 and 1 others like this.

11-16-2022, 03:58 PM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz Key word. All that money was soon spoken for. Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose. Guido is delusional

11-16-2022, 04:22 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,953	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz Key word. All that money was soon spoken for. Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose. Originally Posted by Boston Saint Guido is delusional No. All that money was not spoken for. Not delusional at all. The facts are that Gardner-Johnson was still under contract for 2022 under his original 4 year deal he signed with the Saints. We had, and still have plenty of 2023 cap available to make any number of deals, including an extension for him. He was wanting a new contract for more than we were willing to pay. But he refused to practice under his current contract and refused to do as the coaches asked under his current contract. They finally decided to trade him the final day before final cuts to 53. They could have just cut him and got nothing in return.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-17-2022, 08:09 AM	#6
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,802	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido No. All that money was not spoken for. Not delusional at all. The facts are that Gardner-Johnson was still under contract for 2022 under his original 4 year deal he signed with the Saints. We had, and still have plenty of 2023 cap available to make any number of deals, including an extension for him. He was wanting a new contract for more than we were willing to pay. But he refused to practice under his current contract and refused to do as the coaches asked under his current contract. They finally decided to trade him the final day before final cuts to 53. They could have just cut him and got nothing in return. Where's this money you're talking about? We signed Maye, re-signed Winston, Mathieu, and Landry. All of this was done by the middle of May. CGJ saw all of this and wanted to get his being that he's under the last year of his rookie contract. Players re-negoiate all the time coming into the last year of their contract. Ideally you want to lock up players that important to your team prior to them hitting free agency. He took it as a slap in the face and started acting out. That could have been avoided completely. We let two young, damn good football players leave for practically nothing. At least one had to be re-signed and we dropped the ball because of what? Money we didn't have. We're scrambling at the beginning of every off season manipulating contracts to find more cap space. Like I said and how you completely ignore how it would be more advantageous, to start an off season for once, ahead of the curve and not behind. The strategy makes more sense for a team ready to compete for a championship. We currently have a little less than 3 million in cap space. You actually think that's enough to give him a serious offer? And no, we did not have to trade him. We could have put him on the roster and waited for a better deal as well. Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once. halloween 65 likes this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

11-17-2022, 08:13 AM	#7
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once. LOL. We are talking about Guido here papz. papz and halloween 65 like this.

11-17-2022, 08:33 AM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,953	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz Where's this money you're talking about? We signed Maye, re-signed Winston, Mathieu, and Landry. All of this was done by the middle of May. CGJ saw all of this and wanted to get his being that he's under the last year of his rookie contract. Players re-negoiate all the time coming into the last year of their contract. Ideally you want to lock up players that important to your team prior to them hitting free agency. He took it as a slap in the face and started acting out. That could have been avoided completely. We let two young, damn good football players leave for practically nothing. At least one had to be re-signed and we dropped the ball because of what? Money we didn't have. We're scrambling at the beginning of every off season manipulating contracts to find more cap space. Like I said and how you completely ignore how it would be more advantageous, to start an off season for once, ahead of the curve and not behind. The strategy makes more sense for a team ready to compete for a championship. We currently have a little less than 3 million in cap space. You actually think that's enough to give him a serious offer? And no, we did not have to trade him. We could have put him on the roster and waited for a better deal as well. Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once. You are missing the point that the 2022 cap has nothing to do with the contract demands of Gardner-Johnson. He was already under contract for 2022, the final year of his original 4 year contract. He was refusing to practice while wanting a new 2023 contract. We have about $100 million in convertible cap available for 2023 in base salaries and bonuses. Money was not a problem. Philly is paying him his final year salary per his original contract. He hasn't received an additional penny yet. He is still on the same contract. A second scenario: Let's say CGJ was indeed wanting to redo his final year as part of an extension which I believe you are trying to suggest. He was already on the books for a $2.7 million salary for 2022. They could have actually saved 2022 cap by redoing his final year by converting that $2.7 million into a signing bonus and spreading it over the term of his new deal. Let's say four years. That would make his 2022 base a little over $500K freeing up over $2 million in 2022 cap. They could have then made his 2023-26 salaries whatever was required not affecting the 2022 cap. That's where the money is. The money was there. He was traded because he refused to practice and wouldn't work with the coaches. Pure and simple.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill