SmashMouth

The way it has been or was structured under SP with Loomis at the helm seemed to work. Khai Forbath has been rumored to be moving upward, if not with the Saints, with other opportunities. If he truly is the numbers guy everyone says he is, why are we in a situation as we are? Is he worth his position? Should we move him up in our organization? Is it time to promote Ireland to GM and have Loomis step back a bit in the Saints organization and maybe have him concentrate more on the Pelicans? Maybe that's what's he's doing and our results are now self-evident.

BakoSaint

Yes yes yes. We need a football guy with patience not a numbers guy who specializes in mortgaging the future to a greater extent than others can fathom.

papz

He doesn't make personnel decisions and his main job is to push money around. I thought that was going to end with Payton. A lot of folks were already sketchy with promoting Allen and then we decided to put another hat on him which he wasn't qualified for. That's on Loomis.

I really do appreciate the run and the success we've had during his tenure. With that said, and I've said it a few times, it starts at the top. He's a glorified accountant that's replaceable. If I was running a shady hedge fund, Loomis would be my first call. The fact we're continually in cap hell year after year makes you wonder... MAN YOU HAVE ONE FRICKING JOB?! I'd love for us to get a head start and knowing what we have to work with going into an offseason. We start off from behind right off the jump.

Yes I know how some of you guys feel about Allen. There's plenty of blame to go around. However I'd prefer to get to the root of the issue first and go down from there. Am I overracting to a down year? I don't think so IMO. I've been on record while Payton was here saying we've been a stagnant team for quite some time. We were. Change can be good for every one. Look at Andy Reid's situation back in Philly and how both teams are incredibly successful now.

With all this said, I don't think it's too late for Loomis to redeem himself. We have franchise changing type decision looming this off season. I'm willing to step back on the bus if he doesn't screw that up. But as of right now, I do not feel good about him making that decision. And if it's Allen making the decision, . What do we need Loomis for again?

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

All little common sense goes a long way.

AsylumGuido

I don't understand why some are always thinking the Saints are in "cap hell". Every year they have plenty of cap available. The difference is in how the cap is accounted. Contracts are constructed to hold available cap in the form of base salary and annual bonuses such as roster and workout bonuses. All of these can be easily converted to free cap if and when needed. This is the growing trend in the NFL due to the ever increasing cap. It just makes sense to account for current expenditures in future periods when the amount is a smaller percentage of the overall cap.

When Khai Harley moves on from his position with the Saints it will be to install this same financial system with the acquiring franchise. Before long this is going to be the standard method of maintaining the cap across the entire league.

“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

papz

Because we are in "cap hell" until we aren't. We shouldn't have to play catch up year after year. I'm well aware of the trend and the fact that other teams do it. I've noted that in the past. Are you going to ignore the other half of that statement? Loomis isn't the only one that's capable of doing this. We can certainly hire a bonafide GM who can make personnel decisions while getting a damn good accountant too. The point is Allen shouldn't be wearing two hats... 3 hats if he's in charge of the defense as well.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

All little common sense goes a long way.

Boston Saint

If that were true then CGJ and/or Williams would still be on the team.

papz

The root of the issue with CGJ not being here was money. Money we didn't have to give him which IMO, he certainly earned. Loomis failed with getting a contract done and Allen failed getting a bag of balls for the trade. Why in the flying F do we have Allen in position of making trades? That makes Loomis a fail on both accounts regarding CGJ.

SmashMouth

They should be based on how these moves played out...

I still recall just how deflated Cameron Jordan was after the CGJ announcement.

Boston Saint

Yeah, I felt really good going into game 1 until that trade happened. I (we) can only guess as to what happened and why we got so apparently little. On the surface it seems like a bad deal for the Saints. But I doubt we will know what happened in truth. CGJ is an emotional player and personality. Could be after negotiations broke down CGJ said “trade me to Philly. If you trade me anywhere else I’ll be a problem for my new team. If you don’t trade me I’ll be a problem for yours”. So the Saints decided to get what they could. Could be there were teams offering more than what Philly was and the front office/DA was dumb enough to take Philly’s offer anyway. Somehow I doubt that was the case.

Regardless, how much cap space they had certainly made a difference.

You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

AsylumGuido

Teams let players go every year based upon salary and other concerns. While Williams might have been salary related, I believe that Gardner-Johnson, right or wrong, was moved due to being disruptive (refusing to practice and such). As for Williams, they had the ability to pay him more and even whatever he wanted, but, right or wrong, they probably believed he wasn't worth it. The same thing with Terron Armstead, but part of his departure may have been their disappointment with his availability.

It's too easy for fans to blame things on the cap when other factors exist. Ever since the advent of free agency players have been allowed to leave teams. Not having the funds to be able to pay them is seldom the reason.

“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill