Head Coach Material

neugey · 11-09-2022, 07:44 AM

Dennis Allen - he ain't it.

See my blog on this topic at https://blackandgold.com/blogs/neuge...-material.html

K Major · 11-09-2022, 07:49 AM

Nope

Boston Saint · 11-09-2022, 09:11 AM

I know this is going to sound like I’m in Allen’s corner to be the head coach and I’m really not. I’d just like to interject a thought. Do you really think he’s been given a fair chance at an objective evaluation so far this year? Hear me out…

I remember Payton struggling along with multiple 7-9 seasons when he had Brees IN HIS PRIME because he was too…blind…to realize he needed a team that could at least force one or two punts a game. I remember Payton trying dumb reverses or flea flickers at ridiculously silly moments in games that cost the team wins. I remember him drafting players like Baptiste and I remember him NEVER developing anything even close to a successful back up QB or have a plan post Brees.

Now Allen needs to unexpectedly step in for a coach (who surprisingly retires) that had a 9-8 record. Due to financial reasons the D (which had carried the team the year before) needs to lose their two starting safties and an excellent corner. They also lose a cornerstone on their Oline in Armstead.

Allen starts the year with no established QB and needs to sort through a rehabbing Winston, a washed up Dalton or an unprepared/injury prone Hill for a starter (with only 3 preseason games to find him). Then, more injuries pop up. Some unsurprising like Davenport and Thomas. Some unexpected like Penning and Lattimore. But when you really consider the sheer number of players who have missed time and they guys who have had to play in their stead it’s sort of staggering to me.

There has been practically no Landry and no Thomas at WR. At least one game was played without Olave as well. Trautman was even hurt. Who the hell has there been to throw to? Kevin White and Juwan Johnson and Smith? Payton couldn’t win with those guys, why should Allen be able to.

Lattimore’s injury has been huge. That’s left the rookie Taylor as the best DB on the whole team. Last game against the Ravens we had Kaden friggin Ellis out there trying to tackle Lamar Jackson because Werner went down. That’s not on Allen.

Look at the RBs. It’s not on Allen that both Ingram and Kamara had big fumbles early in the season that clearly cost games. Both Tampa and Carolina are Ws if those Vets hold on to the ball. Allen shouldn’t need to tell those two players to hold on to the damn ball.

Again, I’m not saying Allen should stay. I’m only saying that he was put in a tough spot and I personally do not believe he can fairly be evaluated as the head coach of the Saints based upon what he has had to work with so far:

Starting QB…injured
2 Best WRs…injured
Top 2 RB…injured
Best CB…injured
“Best” TE…injured

That’s just off the top of my head. I doubt any coach including Payton would be doing much better with the hand Allen’s been dealt. He’s being made the scapegoat. But I guess when you are the HC that comes with the territory. I just don’t think fans are looking at things objectively.

AsylumGuido · 11-09-2022, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I know this is going to sound like I’m in Allen’s corner to be the head coach and I’m really not. I’d just like to interject a thought. Do you really think he’s been given a fair chance at an objective evaluation so far this year? Hear me out…

I remember Payton struggling along with multiple 7-9 seasons when he had Brees IN HIS PRIME because he was too…blind…to realize he needed a team that could at least force one or two punts a game. I remember Payton trying dumb reverses or flea flickers at ridiculously silly moments in games that cost the team wins. I remember him drafting players like Baptiste and I remember him NEVER developing anything even close to a successful back up QB or have a plan post Brees.

Now Allen needs to unexpectedly step in for a coach (who surprisingly retires) that had a 9-8 record. Due to financial reasons the D (which had carried the team the year before) needs to lose their two starting safties and an excellent corner. They also lose a cornerstone on their Oline in Armstead.

Allen starts the year with no established QB and needs to sort through a rehabbing Winston, a washed up Dalton or an unprepared/injury prone Hill for a starter (with only 3 preseason games to find him). Then, more injuries pop up. Some unsurprising like Davenport and Thomas. Some unexpected like Penning and Lattimore. But when you really consider the sheer number of players who have missed time and they guys who have had to play in their stead it’s sort of staggering to me.

There has been practically no Landry and no Thomas at WR. At least one game was played without Olave as well. Trautman was even hurt. Who the hell has there been to throw to? Kevin White and Juwan Johnson and Smith? Payton couldn’t win with those guys, why should Allen be able to.

Lattimore’s injury has been huge. That’s left the rookie Taylor as the best DB on the whole team. Last game against the Ravens we had Kaden friggin Ellis out there trying to tackle Lamar Jackson because Werner went down. That’s not on Allen.

Look at the RBs. It’s not on Allen that both Ingram and Kamara had big fumbles early in the season that clearly cost games. Both Tampa and Carolina are Ws if those Vets hold on to the ball. Allen shouldn’t need to tell those two players to hold on to the damn ball.

Again, I’m not saying Allen should stay. I’m only saying that he was put in a tough spot and I personally do not believe he can fairly be evaluated as the head coach of the Saints based upon what he has had to work with so far:

Starting QB…injured
2 Best WRs…injured
Top 2 RB…injured
Best CB…injured
“Best” TE…injured

That’s just off the top of my head. I doubt any coach including Payton would be doing much better with the hand Allen’s been dealt. He’s being made the scapegoat. But I guess when you are the HC that comes with the territory. I just don’t think fans are looking at things objectively.

Most fans rarely look at things objectively.

By the way, good points all.

BakoSaint · 11-09-2022, 10:44 AM

At this point I would prefer Interim Head Coach Max Unger to Allen. There are many better options, but few worse than Allen.

Injuries are a feature not a bug of how Mickey Loomis built this roster. Early in his tenure the Saints got lucky with two players coming off big injuries: Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister. Ever since that the lesson Loomis had ingrained is to double down over and over on injury history and love optimistic doctors who say its nothing. Loomis knew Winston was coming off a major injury, Landry was aging and injured at the end of last year, Thomas was injured 2 years and still not right. But he doubled down and signed two safeties who were older with more injury and suspension history and got rid of two younger ones. He chose Ingram as a RB backup for the senior tour instead of drafting a RB in the mid rounds. He traded our first pick to Philly because he was so sure we would be healthy this year because in his delicate kind heart he truly believes every injured player is going to be the next Brees or McAllister.

I would like to get rid of both Allen and Loomis. But to say this is not mostly Allens fault is true. It is more Loomis’ fault. If I could only get rid of one, it would be Loomis.

Boston Saint · 11-09-2022, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

At this point I would prefer Interim Head Coach Max Unger to Allen. There are many better options, but few worse than Allen.

Injuries are a feature not a bug of how Mickey Loomis built this roster. Early in his tenure the Saints got lucky with two players coming off big injuries: Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister. Ever since that the lesson Loomis had ingrained is to double down over and over on injury history and love optimistic doctors who say its nothing. Loomis knew Winston was coming off a major injury, Landry was aging and injured at the end of last year, Thomas was injured 2 years and still not right. But he doubled down and signed two safeties who were older with more injury and suspension history and got rid of two younger ones. He chose Ingram as a RB backup for the senior tour instead of drafting a RB in the mid rounds. He traded our first pick to Philly because he was so sure we would be healthy this year because in his delicate kind heart he truly believes every injured player is going to be the next Brees or McAllister.

I would like to get rid of both Allen and Loomis. But to say this is not mostly Allens fault is true. It is more Loomis’ fault. If I could only get rid of one, it would be Loomis.

The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK.

AsylumGuido · 11-09-2022, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK.

And, of course, don't forget that global warming is a direct result of Loomis' decision making.

shawnkytonk · 11-09-2022, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK.

It's beyond ridiculous what I read some days.

FinSaint · 11-09-2022, 02:07 PM

Well, they were 9-8 while breaking the NFL record for most games missed by injuries and signing guys of the street on Thursday to start on Sunday.

halloween 65 · 11-09-2022, 05:23 PM

the record reflex everthing, either you win or lose on sunday. if we didn't have depth, not on the fans. payton pulled things together year in and year out. you can say the qb. situation is what's missing, can make any excuse about any position but allen was left pretty good and has yet to show he's capable of doing anything at all. it's not my fault or your fault, he was given the keys to the kinddom and everyone knows it say what you want. he$$ even as a dc payton give him players, coaches and even a mentor( co whatever the title was) to build his pretty little resume', never before had payton tried to give any other dc the amount of tools needed to succeed but he did for allen. allen should be fired, he's in way above his head and is not going to get any better.

11-09-2022, 07:44 AM	#1
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,673 Blog Entries: 13	Head Coach Material Dennis Allen - he ain't it. See my blog on this topic at https://blackandgold.com/blogs/neuge...-material.html Halo, SmashMouth, mapcow and 1 others like this.

11-09-2022, 07:49 AM	#2
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,589 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Head Coach Material Nope

11-09-2022, 09:11 AM	#3
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Material I know this is going to sound like I’m in Allen’s corner to be the head coach and I’m really not. I’d just like to interject a thought. Do you really think he’s been given a fair chance at an objective evaluation so far this year? Hear me out… I remember Payton struggling along with multiple 7-9 seasons when he had Brees IN HIS PRIME because he was too…blind…to realize he needed a team that could at least force one or two punts a game. I remember Payton trying dumb reverses or flea flickers at ridiculously silly moments in games that cost the team wins. I remember him drafting players like Baptiste and I remember him NEVER developing anything even close to a successful back up QB or have a plan post Brees. Now Allen needs to unexpectedly step in for a coach (who surprisingly retires) that had a 9-8 record. Due to financial reasons the D (which had carried the team the year before) needs to lose their two starting safties and an excellent corner. They also lose a cornerstone on their Oline in Armstead. Allen starts the year with no established QB and needs to sort through a rehabbing Winston, a washed up Dalton or an unprepared/injury prone Hill for a starter (with only 3 preseason games to find him). Then, more injuries pop up. Some unsurprising like Davenport and Thomas. Some unexpected like Penning and Lattimore. But when you really consider the sheer number of players who have missed time and they guys who have had to play in their stead it’s sort of staggering to me. There has been practically no Landry and no Thomas at WR. At least one game was played without Olave as well. Trautman was even hurt. Who the hell has there been to throw to? Kevin White and Juwan Johnson and Smith? Payton couldn’t win with those guys, why should Allen be able to. Lattimore’s injury has been huge. That’s left the rookie Taylor as the best DB on the whole team. Last game against the Ravens we had Kaden friggin Ellis out there trying to tackle Lamar Jackson because Werner went down. That’s not on Allen. Look at the RBs. It’s not on Allen that both Ingram and Kamara had big fumbles early in the season that clearly cost games. Both Tampa and Carolina are Ws if those Vets hold on to the ball. Allen shouldn’t need to tell those two players to hold on to the damn ball. Again, I’m not saying Allen should stay. I’m only saying that he was put in a tough spot and I personally do not believe he can fairly be evaluated as the head coach of the Saints based upon what he has had to work with so far: Starting QB…injured 2 Best WRs…injured Top 2 RB…injured Best CB…injured “Best” TE…injured That’s just off the top of my head. I doubt any coach including Payton would be doing much better with the hand Allen’s been dealt. He’s being made the scapegoat. But I guess when you are the HC that comes with the territory. I just don’t think fans are looking at things objectively. iceshack149, jnormand, neugey and 3 others like this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

11-09-2022, 09:18 AM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint I know this is going to sound like I’m in Allen’s corner to be the head coach and I’m really not. I’d just like to interject a thought. Do you really think he’s been given a fair chance at an objective evaluation so far this year? Hear me out… I remember Payton struggling along with multiple 7-9 seasons when he had Brees IN HIS PRIME because he was too…blind…to realize he needed a team that could at least force one or two punts a game. I remember Payton trying dumb reverses or flea flickers at ridiculously silly moments in games that cost the team wins. I remember him drafting players like Baptiste and I remember him NEVER developing anything even close to a successful back up QB or have a plan post Brees. Now Allen needs to unexpectedly step in for a coach (who surprisingly retires) that had a 9-8 record. Due to financial reasons the D (which had carried the team the year before) needs to lose their two starting safties and an excellent corner. They also lose a cornerstone on their Oline in Armstead. Allen starts the year with no established QB and needs to sort through a rehabbing Winston, a washed up Dalton or an unprepared/injury prone Hill for a starter (with only 3 preseason games to find him). Then, more injuries pop up. Some unsurprising like Davenport and Thomas. Some unexpected like Penning and Lattimore. But when you really consider the sheer number of players who have missed time and they guys who have had to play in their stead it’s sort of staggering to me. There has been practically no Landry and no Thomas at WR. At least one game was played without Olave as well. Trautman was even hurt. Who the hell has there been to throw to? Kevin White and Juwan Johnson and Smith? Payton couldn’t win with those guys, why should Allen be able to. Lattimore’s injury has been huge. That’s left the rookie Taylor as the best DB on the whole team. Last game against the Ravens we had Kaden friggin Ellis out there trying to tackle Lamar Jackson because Werner went down. That’s not on Allen. Look at the RBs. It’s not on Allen that both Ingram and Kamara had big fumbles early in the season that clearly cost games. Both Tampa and Carolina are Ws if those Vets hold on to the ball. Allen shouldn’t need to tell those two players to hold on to the damn ball. Again, I’m not saying Allen should stay. I’m only saying that he was put in a tough spot and I personally do not believe he can fairly be evaluated as the head coach of the Saints based upon what he has had to work with so far: Starting QB…injured 2 Best WRs…injured Top 2 RB…injured Best CB…injured “Best” TE…injured That’s just off the top of my head. I doubt any coach including Payton would be doing much better with the hand Allen’s been dealt. He’s being made the scapegoat. But I guess when you are the HC that comes with the territory. I just don’t think fans are looking at things objectively. Most fans rarely look at things objectively. By the way, good points all.

11-09-2022, 10:44 AM	#5
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,091	Re: Head Coach Material At this point I would prefer Interim Head Coach Max Unger to Allen. There are many better options, but few worse than Allen. Injuries are a feature not a bug of how Mickey Loomis built this roster. Early in his tenure the Saints got lucky with two players coming off big injuries: Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister. Ever since that the lesson Loomis had ingrained is to double down over and over on injury history and love optimistic doctors who say its nothing. Loomis knew Winston was coming off a major injury, Landry was aging and injured at the end of last year, Thomas was injured 2 years and still not right. But he doubled down and signed two safeties who were older with more injury and suspension history and got rid of two younger ones. He chose Ingram as a RB backup for the senior tour instead of drafting a RB in the mid rounds. He traded our first pick to Philly because he was so sure we would be healthy this year because in his delicate kind heart he truly believes every injured player is going to be the next Brees or McAllister. I would like to get rid of both Allen and Loomis. But to say this is not mostly Allens fault is true. It is more Loomis’ fault. If I could only get rid of one, it would be Loomis. Rugby Saint II likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,091

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11-09-2022, 11:15 AM	#6
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by BakoSaint At this point I would prefer Interim Head Coach Max Unger to Allen. There are many better options, but few worse than Allen. Injuries are a feature not a bug of how Mickey Loomis built this roster. Early in his tenure the Saints got lucky with two players coming off big injuries: Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister. Ever since that the lesson Loomis had ingrained is to double down over and over on injury history and love optimistic doctors who say its nothing. Loomis knew Winston was coming off a major injury, Landry was aging and injured at the end of last year, Thomas was injured 2 years and still not right. But he doubled down and signed two safeties who were older with more injury and suspension history and got rid of two younger ones. He chose Ingram as a RB backup for the senior tour instead of drafting a RB in the mid rounds. He traded our first pick to Philly because he was so sure we would be healthy this year because in his delicate kind heart he truly believes every injured player is going to be the next Brees or McAllister. I would like to get rid of both Allen and Loomis. But to say this is not mostly Allens fault is true. It is more Loomis’ fault. If I could only get rid of one, it would be Loomis. The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK. shawnkytonk likes this.

11-09-2022, 11:41 AM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK. And, of course, don't forget that global warming is a direct result of Loomis' decision making.

11-09-2022, 11:43 AM	#8
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 740	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK. It's beyond ridiculous what I read some days. SmashMouth likes this.

11-09-2022, 02:07 PM	#9
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Head Coach Material Well, they were 9-8 while breaking the NFL record for most games missed by injuries and signing guys of the street on Thursday to start on Sunday. Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

11-09-2022, 05:23 PM	#10
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Head Coach Material the record reflex everthing, either you win or lose on sunday. if we didn't have depth, not on the fans. payton pulled things together year in and year out. you can say the qb. situation is what's missing, can make any excuse about any position but allen was left pretty good and has yet to show he's capable of doing anything at all. it's not my fault or your fault, he was given the keys to the kinddom and everyone knows it say what you want. he$$ even as a dc payton give him players, coaches and even a mentor( co whatever the title was) to build his pretty little resume', never before had payton tried to give any other dc the amount of tools needed to succeed but he did for allen. allen should be fired, he's in way above his head and is not going to get any better.