Who would Payton Bring With Him?

MatthewT · 12-01-2022, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

The Saint have six picks in the upcoming draft, only one fewer than the norm. They also have close to $120 million in convertible cap that they intentionally built into their existing contracts via base salaries and roster/workout bonuses. They have no plan to "dig out" of anything. The whole financial strategy involves transference of current costs into future years where those costs make up a smaller percentage of the ever expanding cap. There are some good interviews out there with Khai Harley, the architect of the plan. That strategy can't change as long as either Loomis and/or Harley are still with the Saints and could very well continue after they leave as more and more teams are moving toward this model.

Sure, the Saints do indeed have six picks in the upcoming draft, missing is the big one.

I get the strategy Loomis and Harley is using, and have seen the interviews too. The flaw as I see it is being committed to a player way after their prime. At some point the cap does need to be cleaned up to avoid this, and/or to make another run at a championship. Michael Thomas may be a great example of what I am talking about. If the Saints wanted to move on from him for any reason, it looks like 2023 is the very first opportunity to do so. It appears if they would have tried to move on from him sooner that it would have created an issue of having to clear even more cap space to move him. The same appears true for guys like Cam Jordan, Andrus Peat, Alvin Kamara, and several others. I am not trying to say the Saints were looking to move on from any of them, but if there is a need to move on they simply could not do it. I do agree with your point that several other teams may or will start using this approach to the cap, but it needs to be used with extreme caution or it could easily sink a franchise.

K Major · 12-01-2022, 11:39 AM

Can't Guard Mike is gonna cost you quite a bit of coin to let go in 2023.

And I know, you can "cut him" in June but the cap needs to cap compliant in March.

But hey, I'm just a couch GM/cap guru

SmashMouth · 12-01-2022, 11:40 AM

MatthewT · 12-01-2022, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Can't Guard Mike is gonna cost you quite a bit of coin to let go in 2023.

And I know, you can "cut him" in June but the cap needs to cap compliant in March.

But hey, I'm just a couch GM/cap guru

I'm in the same boat, this is the site I generally use to try and make some sense of it:

https://overthecap.com/player/michael-thomas/4760

SmashMouth · 12-01-2022, 12:34 PM

shawnkytonk · 12-01-2022, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/s...27554762498052

Wish i could read that mock.

AsylumGuido · 12-01-2022, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Then he is back coaching the Saints next year.

I doubt it, but it's possible if Allen is let go. I'm not sure Payton returns yet to anyone. He's making top head coaching pay right now while working a fraction of the hours. I haven't seen him looking more relaxed in years.

AsylumGuido · 12-01-2022, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

Sure, the Saints do indeed have six picks in the upcoming draft, missing is the big one.

I get the strategy Loomis and Harley is using, and have seen the interviews too. The flaw as I see it is being committed to a player way after their prime. At some point the cap does need to be cleaned up to avoid this, and/or to make another run at a championship. Michael Thomas may be a great example of what I am talking about. If the Saints wanted to move on from him for any reason, it looks like 2023 is the very first opportunity to do so. It appears if they would have tried to move on from him sooner that it would have created an issue of having to clear even more cap space to move him. The same appears true for guys like Cam Jordan, Andrus Peat, Alvin Kamara, and several others. I am not trying to say the Saints were looking to move on from any of them, but if there is a need to move on they simply could not do it. I do agree with your point that several other teams may or will start using this approach to the cap, but it needs to be used with extreme caution or it could easily sink a franchise.

You are assuming they would WANT to move on from Thomas. They are putting a lot of time and effort into getting Thomas healthy again just to get rid of him.

As for the "Harley" method of contract management, I believe you have to buy in completely for it to work as intended.

neugey · 12-01-2022, 02:34 PM

He could hire this guy and take a few years to decide if they want to run a 3-4 or a 4-3 again ...

TheOak · 12-02-2022, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I doubt it, but it's possible if Allen is let go. I'm not sure Payton returns yet to anyone. He's making top head coaching pay right now while working a fraction of the hours. I haven't seen him looking more relaxed in years.

You doubt it? lol That's the only conclusion from your 'insider info'.

Why does Dennis Allen need to go? 2023 you have both Dennis Allen and Sean Payton on payroll. Its a no brainer that Sean is HC, he is the only person on payroll that resembles a head coach.

You do realize that while you are the only one that looks at your app, the rest of the world can see twitter and are privy to your insider info?

12-01-2022, 11:14 AM	#11
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido The Saint have six picks in the upcoming draft, only one fewer than the norm. They also have close to $120 million in convertible cap that they intentionally built into their existing contracts via base salaries and roster/workout bonuses. They have no plan to "dig out" of anything. The whole financial strategy involves transference of current costs into future years where those costs make up a smaller percentage of the ever expanding cap. There are some good interviews out there with Khai Harley, the architect of the plan. That strategy can't change as long as either Loomis and/or Harley are still with the Saints and could very well continue after they leave as more and more teams are moving toward this model. Sure, the Saints do indeed have six picks in the upcoming draft, missing is the big one. I get the strategy Loomis and Harley is using, and have seen the interviews too. The flaw as I see it is being committed to a player way after their prime. At some point the cap does need to be cleaned up to avoid this, and/or to make another run at a championship. Michael Thomas may be a great example of what I am talking about. If the Saints wanted to move on from him for any reason, it looks like 2023 is the very first opportunity to do so. It appears if they would have tried to move on from him sooner that it would have created an issue of having to clear even more cap space to move him. The same appears true for guys like Cam Jordan, Andrus Peat, Alvin Kamara, and several others. I am not trying to say the Saints were looking to move on from any of them, but if there is a need to move on they simply could not do it. I do agree with your point that several other teams may or will start using this approach to the cap, but it needs to be used with extreme caution or it could easily sink a franchise.

12-01-2022, 11:39 AM	#12
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Can't Guard Mike is gonna cost you quite a bit of coin to let go in 2023. And I know, you can "cut him" in June but the cap needs to cap compliant in March. But hey, I'm just a couch GM/cap guru MatthewT and Boston Saint like this.

12-01-2022, 11:40 AM	#13
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,201 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Twitter

12-01-2022, 12:04 PM	#14
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Originally Posted by K Major Can't Guard Mike is gonna cost you quite a bit of coin to let go in 2023. And I know, you can "cut him" in June but the cap needs to cap compliant in March. But hey, I'm just a couch GM/cap guru I'm in the same boat, this is the site I generally use to try and make some sense of it: https://overthecap.com/player/michael-thomas/4760 Rugby Saint II likes this.

12-01-2022, 12:34 PM	#15
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,201 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Twitter

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12-01-2022, 12:57 PM	#16
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 741	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Originally Posted by SmashMouth https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/s...27554762498052 Wish i could read that mock.

12-01-2022, 12:58 PM	#17
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Originally Posted by TheOak Then he is back coaching the Saints next year. I doubt it, but it's possible if Allen is let go. I'm not sure Payton returns yet to anyone. He's making top head coaching pay right now while working a fraction of the hours. I haven't seen him looking more relaxed in years.

12-01-2022, 01:01 PM	#18
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Originally Posted by MatthewT Sure, the Saints do indeed have six picks in the upcoming draft, missing is the big one. I get the strategy Loomis and Harley is using, and have seen the interviews too. The flaw as I see it is being committed to a player way after their prime. At some point the cap does need to be cleaned up to avoid this, and/or to make another run at a championship. Michael Thomas may be a great example of what I am talking about. If the Saints wanted to move on from him for any reason, it looks like 2023 is the very first opportunity to do so. It appears if they would have tried to move on from him sooner that it would have created an issue of having to clear even more cap space to move him. The same appears true for guys like Cam Jordan, Andrus Peat, Alvin Kamara, and several others. I am not trying to say the Saints were looking to move on from any of them, but if there is a need to move on they simply could not do it. I do agree with your point that several other teams may or will start using this approach to the cap, but it needs to be used with extreme caution or it could easily sink a franchise. You are assuming they would WANT to move on from Thomas. They are putting a lot of time and effort into getting Thomas healthy again just to get rid of him. As for the "Harley" method of contract management, I believe you have to buy in completely for it to work as intended.

12-01-2022, 02:34 PM	#19
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,715 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? He could hire this guy and take a few years to decide if they want to run a 3-4 or a 4-3 again ... K Major likes this.

12-02-2022, 08:01 AM	#20
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: Who would Payton Bring With Him? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I doubt it, but it's possible if Allen is let go. I'm not sure Payton returns yet to anyone. He's making top head coaching pay right now while working a fraction of the hours. I haven't seen him looking more relaxed in years. You doubt it? lol That's the only conclusion from your 'insider info'. Why does Dennis Allen need to go? 2023 you have both Dennis Allen and Sean Payton on payroll. Its a no brainer that Sean is HC, he is the only person on payroll that resembles a head coach. You do realize that while you are the only one that looks at your app, the rest of the world can see twitter and are privy to your insider info?