Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

saintsfan1976 · 01-17-2023, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

I don’t get how they come up with that. What if he chooses a team like the cards or Texans who don’t have a mid to late first round pick? Then what?
How do they already know that unless they already know he wants the Denver job maybe

Could swap picks or add on additional years.

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

I don’t get how they come up with that. What if he chooses a team like the cards or Texans who don’t have a mid to late first round pick? Then what?
How do they already know that unless they already know he wants the Denver job maybe

The 1st can be a 2024 pick. It doesn't have to be a 2023.

That's why I think they may have asked for a draft chart trade number that included either a 2023 or 2024 1st rounder plus other picks to total a certain value. That way all interested parties would be operating on the same scale.

Mr.Riaton · 01-17-2023, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

The 1st can be a 2024 pick. It doesn't have to be a 2023.

That's why I think they may have asked for a draft chart trade number that included either a 2023 or 2024 1st rounder plus other picks to total a certain value. That way all interested parties would be operating on the same scale.

How can that be if they don’t know what the 2024 pick will be? What if they suck and it yields a top 10 pick?

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

How can that be if they don’t know what the 2024 pick will be? What if they suck and it yields a top 10 pick?

Their loss. Getting Payton is supposed to keep that from happening, right?

Seriously, future picks always carry less of a value than current year picks. In trades they usually treat them as being mid round.

Mr.Riaton · 01-17-2023, 05:12 PM

I think the main reason why Sean holds more leverage is the single fact that he’s not desperate to coach. He’ll go back to Fox or wherever for a couple more years until he’s free if the Saints play hardball. I think Sean was throwing Mickey and the Saints a bone by meeting with Mickey to discuss something they’re both happy with. If Sean was desperate, it’d be a different story. It’s pretty unfortunate because I’m thinking maybe we won’t get what he’s worth imo. I guess we’ll see

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

I think the main reason why Sean holds more leverage is the single fact that he’s not desperate to coach. He’ll go back to Fox or wherever for a couple more years until he’s free if the Saints play hardball. I think Sean was throwing Mickey and the Saints a bone by meeting with Mickey to discuss something they’re both happy with. If Sean was desperate, it’d be a different story. It’s pretty unfortunate because I’m thinking maybe we won’t get what he’s worth imo. I guess we’ll see

I don't think there's anyway that the Saints would, or could, prevent Payton from getting a job. Everyone that he's interviewing (yes, he is interviewing the teams, not the other way around) has already agreed to the basics of compensation for his rights.

Mr.Riaton · 01-17-2023, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I don't think there's anyway that the Saints would, or could, prevent Payton from getting a job. Everyone that he's interviewing (yes, he is interviewing the teams, not the other way around) has already agreed to the basics of compensation for his rights.

I understand that, but they can agree all day on terms and if Payton doesn’t like the terms it’s a no go and everyone misses out. That gives Payton the most leverage. That’s the main point I was making.
When he said ‘if the situation is right’, part of that is not getting ass raped by a ton of picks by the Saints from his new team, including high value picks. He’ll just wait it out…He’s not stupid.
I was hopeful at first but starting to think maybe we won’t get what we feel he’s worth unfortunately

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

I understand that, but they can agree all day on terms and if Payton doesn’t like the terms it’s a no go and everyone misses out. That gives Payton the most leverage. That’s the main point I was making.
When he said ‘if the situation is right’, part of that is not getting ass raped by a ton of picks by the Saints from his new team, including high value picks. He’ll just wait it out…He’s not stupid.
I was hopeful at first but starting to think maybe we won’t get what we feel he’s worth unfortunately

I think you are missing the point that the terms have already been decided. That why he knows it will only include a mid to late round first along with other picks. The Saints are going to get what he's worth. It may not be some unrealistic value that fans expect, however. Some fans expect what the Raiders got while raping Tampa Bay. That was plain stupid. I think everyone now knows that isn't going to happen.

Mr.Riaton · 01-17-2023, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I think you are missing the point that the terms have already been decided. That why he knows it will only include a mid to late round first along with other picks. The Saints are going to get what he's worth. It may not be some unrealistic value that fans expect, however. Some fans expect what the Raiders got while raping Tampa Bay. That was plain stupid. I think everyone now knows that isn't going to happen.

Totally understand that. Not missing the point, just making my own

TheOak · 01-18-2023, 06:19 AM

How is it that people vehemently profess otherwise but continue to explain how the team has the power in this situation?

Who grants permission for interviews? Team
Who gets to decide the transaction cost? Team by letting interested teams know what it will cost to allow the contract to be broken. This narrows a coaches possibilities.
Who has full veto power over any deal? Team

Because on paper the TEAM holds all the power.

I have done this for a living so I will share my experience with negotiations... The party that has the least leverage is always the more desperate party. In Sean Payton's case the team has all the power but ownership, management, and fans have imposed desperation on themselves and that nullifies their leverage. This is a cognitive bias called "Loss Aversion", the fear of getting nothing, and it is what makes people accept bad deals.

Loss Aversion makes fans feel like we absolutely must get something for Sean Payton, and that is what will lead to accepting an outcome below perceived market value. He is a sunk cost that doesn't effect our cap, and you can not lose what you do not possess.

01-17-2023, 04:04 PM	#1
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,972 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton I don’t get how they come up with that. What if he chooses a team like the cards or Texans who don’t have a mid to late first round pick? Then what? How do they already know that unless they already know he wants the Denver job maybe Could swap picks or add on additional years.

01-17-2023, 04:05 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton I don’t get how they come up with that. What if he chooses a team like the cards or Texans who don’t have a mid to late first round pick? Then what? How do they already know that unless they already know he wants the Denver job maybe The 1st can be a 2024 pick. It doesn't have to be a 2023. That's why I think they may have asked for a draft chart trade number that included either a 2023 or 2024 1st rounder plus other picks to total a certain value. That way all interested parties would be operating on the same scale.

01-17-2023, 04:14 PM	#3
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,287	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido The 1st can be a 2024 pick. It doesn't have to be a 2023. That's why I think they may have asked for a draft chart trade number that included either a 2023 or 2024 1st rounder plus other picks to total a certain value. That way all interested parties would be operating on the same scale. How can that be if they don’t know what the 2024 pick will be? What if they suck and it yields a top 10 pick?

01-17-2023, 04:17 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton How can that be if they don’t know what the 2024 pick will be? What if they suck and it yields a top 10 pick? Their loss. Getting Payton is supposed to keep that from happening, right? Seriously, future picks always carry less of a value than current year picks. In trades they usually treat them as being mid round. Mr.Riaton likes this.

01-17-2023, 05:12 PM	#5
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,287	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton I think the main reason why Sean holds more leverage is the single fact that he’s not desperate to coach. He’ll go back to Fox or wherever for a couple more years until he’s free if the Saints play hardball. I think Sean was throwing Mickey and the Saints a bone by meeting with Mickey to discuss something they’re both happy with. If Sean was desperate, it’d be a different story. It’s pretty unfortunate because I’m thinking maybe we won’t get what he’s worth imo. I guess we’ll see

01-17-2023, 05:33 PM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton I think the main reason why Sean holds more leverage is the single fact that he’s not desperate to coach. He’ll go back to Fox or wherever for a couple more years until he’s free if the Saints play hardball. I think Sean was throwing Mickey and the Saints a bone by meeting with Mickey to discuss something they’re both happy with. If Sean was desperate, it’d be a different story. It’s pretty unfortunate because I’m thinking maybe we won’t get what he’s worth imo. I guess we’ll see I don't think there's anyway that the Saints would, or could, prevent Payton from getting a job. Everyone that he's interviewing (yes, he is interviewing the teams, not the other way around) has already agreed to the basics of compensation for his rights.

01-17-2023, 06:05 PM	#7
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,287	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I don't think there's anyway that the Saints would, or could, prevent Payton from getting a job. Everyone that he's interviewing (yes, he is interviewing the teams, not the other way around) has already agreed to the basics of compensation for his rights. I understand that, but they can agree all day on terms and if Payton doesn’t like the terms it’s a no go and everyone misses out. That gives Payton the most leverage. That’s the main point I was making. When he said ‘if the situation is right’, part of that is not getting ass raped by a ton of picks by the Saints from his new team, including high value picks. He’ll just wait it out…He’s not stupid. I was hopeful at first but starting to think maybe we won’t get what we feel he’s worth unfortunately

01-17-2023, 06:27 PM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton I understand that, but they can agree all day on terms and if Payton doesn’t like the terms it’s a no go and everyone misses out. That gives Payton the most leverage. That’s the main point I was making. When he said ‘if the situation is right’, part of that is not getting ass raped by a ton of picks by the Saints from his new team, including high value picks. He’ll just wait it out…He’s not stupid. I was hopeful at first but starting to think maybe we won’t get what we feel he’s worth unfortunately I think you are missing the point that the terms have already been decided. That why he knows it will only include a mid to late round first along with other picks. The Saints are going to get what he's worth. It may not be some unrealistic value that fans expect, however. Some fans expect what the Raiders got while raping Tampa Bay. That was plain stupid. I think everyone now knows that isn't going to happen.

01-17-2023, 06:34 PM	#9
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,287	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I think you are missing the point that the terms have already been decided. That why he knows it will only include a mid to late round first along with other picks. The Saints are going to get what he's worth. It may not be some unrealistic value that fans expect, however. Some fans expect what the Raiders got while raping Tampa Bay. That was plain stupid. I think everyone now knows that isn't going to happen. Totally understand that. Not missing the point, just making my own

01-18-2023, 06:19 AM	#10
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton How is it that people vehemently profess otherwise but continue to explain how the team has the power in this situation? Who grants permission for interviews? Team Who gets to decide the transaction cost? Team by letting interested teams know what it will cost to allow the contract to be broken. This narrows a coaches possibilities. Who has full veto power over any deal? Team Because on paper the TEAM holds all the power. I have done this for a living so I will share my experience with negotiations... The party that has the least leverage is always the more desperate party. In Sean Payton's case the team has all the power but ownership, management, and fans have imposed desperation on themselves and that nullifies their leverage. This is a cognitive bias called "Loss Aversion", the fear of getting nothing, and it is what makes people accept bad deals. Loss Aversion makes fans feel like we absolutely must get something for Sean Payton, and that is what will lead to accepting an outcome below perceived market value. He is a sunk cost that doesn't effect our cap, and you can not lose what you do not possess. iceshack149, UK_WhoDat, papz and 1 others like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau