Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

papz · 01-17-2023, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Tell me, please, exactly what leverage do you believe the Saints have beyond simply refusing the transfer of his rights?

That gets them literally nothing in return. They cannot play one suitor against another because Payton is the one that gets to choose where he wants to go. The Saints literally have little to no leverage. Payton carries by far the most leverage, followed closely by the individual team of his choice. The Saints pull up the rear in the leverage race by a good margin.

Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative.

Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense.

saintsfan1976 · 01-17-2023, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative.

Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense.

I've tried unsuccessfully to explain this to Guido several times.

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

I've tried unsuccessfully to explain this to Guido several times.

I fully understand economics. I aced all four semesters of it at LSU-S. Supply and demand requires an open market, meaning there has to be multiple buyers. There aren't in this case for the Saints. There is one single buyer and that's the buyer that Sean Payton chooses, if he chooses one at all. On the other hand, the team that Payton chooses has access to multiple products (head coaching candidates) from different sources. They can keep all of their draft capital and make a different coaching hire if they so choose.

And I'm nowhere near the only one pointing out these facts.

Once again, I would absolutely love it if the Saints were in a position to shop Payton like they could a player without a no trade clause. But they aren't.

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative.

Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense.

It's not MY assumption and it's not MY narrative, papz. There is only going to be one team. Payton has already said he's looking for the best situation for him and if he doesn't find it he'll return to the studio job at Fox. Once he selects that one team Loomis said they will work out the final details. There has already been a basic understanding of the deal prior to Payton even interviewing each of the teams.

And, no, and yes. No we do not "have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us". We can take what was already agreed upon before they were given the okay to speak with Payton. And, yes, "risk not getting any compensation at all." That IS the way it works.

And yes it makes sense when you have limited leverage (only the ability to withhold the rights).

Sinner · 01-17-2023, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by papz

The misconception here is that there are folks who feel as if a lot of fans believe we are going to get a Jon Gruden type package in return. We're not. Most logical fans know that just because the Raiders did something crazy, doesn't mean that it's going to happen here. The narrative for "the Saints have little to no leverage" is a bunch of horse**** and just an excuse if Loomis botches this thing.

Now while my opinions on Loomis haven't been favorable, his future here depends on this and I do not believe he will screw this up. Hopefully all of this will get wrapped up soon and we can look toward the future.

"the Saints have little to no leverage" fits perfectly with "the Saints suffer from too many fumbles and false starts" and "the Saints have been decimated with injuries" and "the Saints couldn't have possibly prepared to secure a Championship-Caliber Quarterback, while Drew was in decline" or "the Saints couldn't have possibly invested $60 million in something beyond turf toe" or whatever sorry excuse some fans come upon with to give dismal ownership and (mis)management of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM a pass.

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

"the Saints have little to no leverage" fits perfectly with "the Saints suffer from too many fumbles and false starts" and "the Saints have been decimated with injuries" and "the Saints couldn't have possibly prepared to secure a Championship-Caliber Quarterback, while Drew was in decline" or "the Saints couldn't have possibly invested $60 million in something beyond turf toe" or whatever sorry excuse some fans come upon with to give dismal ownership and (mis)management of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM a pass.

Is there a second verse to this same old song?

Sinner · 01-17-2023, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Is there a second verse to this same old song?

Yes. SAM FREAKING DARNOLD. LOL

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

Yes. SAM FREAKING DARNOLD. LOL

900

mapcow · 01-17-2023, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Is there a second verse to this same old song?

nope.... tells it all in just one verse.

Originally Posted by Sinner View Post
"the Saints have little to no leverage" fits perfectly with "the Saints suffer from too many fumbles and false starts" and "the Saints have been decimated with injuries" and "the Saints couldn't have possibly prepared to secure a Championship-Caliber Quarterback, while Drew was in decline" or "the Saints couldn't have possibly invested $60 million in something beyond turf toe" or whatever sorry excuse some fans come upon with to give dismal ownership and (mis)management of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM a pass.

Sinner · 01-17-2023, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by mapcow

nope.... tells it all in just one verse.

Originally Posted by Sinner View Post
"the Saints have little to no leverage" fits perfectly with "the Saints suffer from too many fumbles and false starts" and "the Saints have been decimated with injuries" and "the Saints couldn't have possibly prepared to secure a Championship-Caliber Quarterback, while Drew was in decline" or "the Saints couldn't have possibly invested $60 million in something beyond turf toe" or whatever sorry excuse some fans come upon with to give dismal ownership and (mis)management of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM a pass.

The whole song is based on loyal, dedicated fans, demanding excellence from a PROFFESIONAL SPORTS/ENTERTAINMENT organization. Some seem to remain under the hypnosis of wishful thinking that everything will just sort itself out if we just sit back and fork over our money, while no meaningful adjustments are made. These fans will continue to find excuses to justify the continued poor performance, and may actually enjoy the abuse. That psychology is above my pay grade.

After what we just witnessed this season, and at this time of the year, when other teams advance into the post-season, we need to be seeing some radical changes and adjustments being made. It's not happening. I just cannot sing "Kumbaya" when thinking about what our next season is going to look like.

01-17-2023, 02:31 PM	#1
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,799	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Tell me, please, exactly what leverage do you believe the Saints have beyond simply refusing the transfer of his rights? That gets them literally nothing in return. They cannot play one suitor against another because Payton is the one that gets to choose where he wants to go. The Saints literally have little to no leverage. Payton carries by far the most leverage, followed closely by the individual team of his choice. The Saints pull up the rear in the leverage race by a good margin. Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative. Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense. saintsfan1976, Sinner, halloween 65 and 1 others like this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

01-17-2023, 03:06 PM	#2
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,082 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by papz Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative. Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense. I've tried unsuccessfully to explain this to Guido several times.

01-17-2023, 03:20 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,856	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 I've tried unsuccessfully to explain this to Guido several times. I fully understand economics. I aced all four semesters of it at LSU-S. Supply and demand requires an open market, meaning there has to be multiple buyers. There aren't in this case for the Saints. There is one single buyer and that's the buyer that Sean Payton chooses, if he chooses one at all. On the other hand, the team that Payton chooses has access to multiple products (head coaching candidates) from different sources. They can keep all of their draft capital and make a different coaching hire if they so choose. And I'm nowhere near the only one pointing out these facts. Once again, I would absolutely love it if the Saints were in a position to shop Payton like they could a player without a no trade clause. But they aren't.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-17-2023, 03:09 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,856	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by papz Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative. Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense. It's not MY assumption and it's not MY narrative, papz. There is only going to be one team. Payton has already said he's looking for the best situation for him and if he doesn't find it he'll return to the studio job at Fox. Once he selects that one team Loomis said they will work out the final details. There has already been a basic understanding of the deal prior to Payton even interviewing each of the teams. And, no, and yes. No we do not "have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us". We can take what was already agreed upon before they were given the okay to speak with Payton. And, yes, "risk not getting any compensation at all." That IS the way it works. And yes it makes sense when you have limited leverage (only the ability to withhold the rights).
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-17-2023, 12:05 PM	#5
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,073	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by papz The misconception here is that there are folks who feel as if a lot of fans believe we are going to get a Jon Gruden type package in return. We're not. Most logical fans know that just because the Raiders did something crazy, doesn't mean that it's going to happen here. The narrative for "the Saints have little to no leverage" is a bunch of horse**** and just an excuse if Loomis botches this thing. Now while my opinions on Loomis haven't been favorable, his future here depends on this and I do not believe he will screw this up. Hopefully all of this will get wrapped up soon and we can look toward the future. "the Saints have little to no leverage" fits perfectly with "the Saints suffer from too many fumbles and false starts" and "the Saints have been decimated with injuries" and "the Saints couldn't have possibly prepared to secure a Championship-Caliber Quarterback, while Drew was in decline" or "the Saints couldn't have possibly invested $60 million in something beyond turf toe" or whatever sorry excuse some fans come upon with to give dismal ownership and (mis)management of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM a pass.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,073

01-17-2023, 12:06 PM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,856	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Sinner "the Saints have little to no leverage" fits perfectly with "the Saints suffer from too many fumbles and false starts" and "the Saints have been decimated with injuries" and "the Saints couldn't have possibly prepared to secure a Championship-Caliber Quarterback, while Drew was in decline" or "the Saints couldn't have possibly invested $60 million in something beyond turf toe" or whatever sorry excuse some fans come upon with to give dismal ownership and (mis)management of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM a pass. Is there a second verse to this same old song?

01-17-2023, 12:16 PM	#7
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,073	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Is there a second verse to this same old song? Yes. SAM FREAKING DARNOLD. LOL
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,073

01-17-2023, 12:19 PM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,856	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Sinner Yes. SAM FREAKING DARNOLD. LOL 900

01-17-2023, 12:43 PM	#9
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,819	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Is there a second verse to this same old song? nope.... tells it all in just one verse. Originally Posted by Sinner View Post "the Saints have little to no leverage" fits perfectly with "the Saints suffer from too many fumbles and false starts" and "the Saints have been decimated with injuries" and "the Saints couldn't have possibly prepared to secure a Championship-Caliber Quarterback, while Drew was in decline" or "the Saints couldn't have possibly invested $60 million in something beyond turf toe" or whatever sorry excuse some fans come upon with to give dismal ownership and (mis)management of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM a pass. Sinner likes this.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,819

01-17-2023, 01:48 PM	#10
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,073	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by mapcow nope.... tells it all in just one verse. Originally Posted by Sinner View Post "the Saints have little to no leverage" fits perfectly with "the Saints suffer from too many fumbles and false starts" and "the Saints have been decimated with injuries" and "the Saints couldn't have possibly prepared to secure a Championship-Caliber Quarterback, while Drew was in decline" or "the Saints couldn't have possibly invested $60 million in something beyond turf toe" or whatever sorry excuse some fans come upon with to give dismal ownership and (mis)management of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM a pass. The whole song is based on loyal, dedicated fans, demanding excellence from a PROFFESIONAL SPORTS/ENTERTAINMENT organization. Some seem to remain under the hypnosis of wishful thinking that everything will just sort itself out if we just sit back and fork over our money, while no meaningful adjustments are made. These fans will continue to find excuses to justify the continued poor performance, and may actually enjoy the abuse. That psychology is above my pay grade. After what we just witnessed this season, and at this time of the year, when other teams advance into the post-season, we need to be seeing some radical changes and adjustments being made. It's not happening. I just cannot sing "Kumbaya" when thinking about what our next season is going to look like. mapcow and K Major like this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,073