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Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by SmashMouth Never assume that we're going to suck. None of us are, really. But if we're going to suck, we shouldn't be way over the cap. That then shows even more ineptitude on behalf of Saints management. ...

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Old 02-02-2023, 07:48 PM   #31
 
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Re: Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

Originally Posted by SmashMouth View Post
Never assume that we're going to suck. None of us are, really. But if we're going to suck, we shouldn't be way over the cap. That then shows even more ineptitude on behalf of Saints management. We DO have to lay much of the blame on the former coach and Loomie. I guarantee you that if Saints HAD successfully drafted Mahomes, SP wouldn't have changed zip codes. He wouldn't be crying about being burned out and needing time off, only to start fresh anew in the mile high city. That's why many fans are still salty... SP quit when he couldn't transition from Brees.
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
We are only "way over the cap" because that's the way contracts are purposely structured with inflated future base salaries and roster/workout bonuses. It not the result of anything but intentional design. Realistically we are as much as $30 million under the cap as things stand right now.

As for Mahomes, how can you place any blame on Loomis and Payton for the Saints not having him now? They attempted to move up to try to get him but were unable to make any deal to get up that high. That's not their fault. Move on from that.
Originally Posted by K Major View Post
Accurate.
Whether it's a Mahomes or some other QB, the fact still remains that SP failed to transition from Brees. For a reputed QB whisperer, it is abundantly obvious this reputation is overstated. It still stands that had he been able to get a Mahomes, he'd still be here and we wouldn't even have a discussion. Think about it, as much as the Saints traded up for talent, if he was so hot to trot on Mahomes as he now so eloquently espouses to be, he could have traded up to snatch Mahomes away from KC, yes even a mere few picks away. Somebody would have taken two number ones, something Saints had already done. Saints simply didn't offer it.

As far as QB contracts, they are completely out of hand, so much so there is a discussion to have a separate category outside of the cap. Brees contracts and other player contracts significantly contributed to pushing what is essentially debt forward. That is the methodology Loomie showed the rest of the league how to do. And it works so long as the team continues to be in contention, which it isn't now. If the talent evaluations, both draft and FA, fall off a cliff, it can seriously hurt a team. We are now reaping the aftermath of such said bad evaluations and faulty roster management including managing aging players, injuries notwithstanding. Yes, they (injuries) are part of the game. There is what seems to be a new climate on how injuries are handled. What hasn't adjusted yet are the financial ramifications of the injuries. There is a reason we do have a cap. If teams are to manage injuries the way we've seen teams now handle them, not just the Saints, there ought to be financial ramifications on how these salaries are handled. If an RPO QB is the way of the future, they cannot get paid insane contracts. An argument could instead be to pay them less since they won't be able to hold up an entire season. Maybe we're segueing into two QB systems. Only the very elite QBs deserve the very elite contracts. Right now it's Mahomes and Burrow... and that's it. This nonsense to have the likes of Dak Prescott and Desahwn Watson and so on with cap crippling contracts is just plain stupid. This is a team game. It's already been proven time and time again one can win a SB sans an elite QB. Yes, it's easier. But those are few and far between. The cap is the biggest ever and is big enough to manage player salaries. Owners can't let players get paid too much. However with gambling now so intertwined in the league, tampering is abound to save those overpaid players so that they themselves are shielded in whatever capacity RG needs them to be shielded for the sake of the NFL brand. And here we enter the realm of "entertainment" and not a truly competitive sport as we all grew up to love.
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Old 02-02-2023, 07:50 PM   #32
 
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Re: Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
Allen got a hold of the keys to an M5 and wrecked it within 1 season .
BMWs are notoriously finicky and unreliable, but fun when they DO work. Not every mechanic understands how to work on them ... or even drive them.
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Old 02-03-2023, 09:45 AM   #33
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Re: Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

Originally Posted by SmashMouth View Post
Whether it's a Mahomes or some other QB, the fact still remains that SP failed to transition from Brees. For a reputed QB whisperer, it is abundantly obvious this reputation is overstated. It still stands that had he been able to get a Mahomes, he'd still be here and we wouldn't even have a discussion. Think about it, as much as the Saints traded up for talent, if he was so hot to trot on Mahomes as he now so eloquently espouses to be, he could have traded up to snatch Mahomes away from KC, yes even a mere few picks away. Somebody would have taken two number ones, something Saints had already done. Saints simply didn't offer it.

As far as QB contracts, they are completely out of hand, so much so there is a discussion to have a separate category outside of the cap. Brees contracts and other player contracts significantly contributed to pushing what is essentially debt forward. That is the methodology Loomie showed the rest of the league how to do. And it works so long as the team continues to be in contention, which it isn't now. If the talent evaluations, both draft and FA, fall off a cliff, it can seriously hurt a team. We are now reaping the aftermath of such said bad evaluations and faulty roster management including managing aging players, injuries notwithstanding. Yes, they (injuries) are part of the game. There is what seems to be a new climate on how injuries are handled. What hasn't adjusted yet are the financial ramifications of the injuries. There is a reason we do have a cap. If teams are to manage injuries the way we've seen teams now handle them, not just the Saints, there ought to be financial ramifications on how these salaries are handled. If an RPO QB is the way of the future, they cannot get paid insane contracts. An argument could instead be to pay them less since they won't be able to hold up an entire season. Maybe we're segueing into two QB systems. Only the very elite QBs deserve the very elite contracts. Right now it's Mahomes and Burrow... and that's it. This nonsense to have the likes of Dak Prescott and Desahwn Watson and so on with cap crippling contracts is just plain stupid. This is a team game. It's already been proven time and time again one can win a SB sans an elite QB. Yes, it's easier. But those are few and far between. The cap is the biggest ever and is big enough to manage player salaries. Owners can't let players get paid too much. However with gambling now so intertwined in the league, tampering is abound to save those overpaid players so that they themselves are shielded in whatever capacity RG needs them to be shielded for the sake of the NFL brand. And here we enter the realm of "entertainment" and not a truly competitive sport as we all grew up to love.
Transitioning from a hall of fame QB to another great, or even competent QB is easier said than done, Smash. The number of times it has been done successfully in the history of the NFL can probably be counted on two hands. I believe to put all of that blame on Payton because of our current situation is shortsighted. For all we know Jameis could have been that perfect transition. But injuries sidetracked both of his seasons following the Brees era.

As for QB salaries, it is what it is. There are 32 teams and only so many great QB's in the world. Certainly not enough to go around. This is truly a case of supply and demand. When the elite QB's are all taken the great ones become the highest demand. Once the great ones are all taken the good ones become the highest demand. Etcetera.

Contracts in general have to continue to rise. That was collectively bargained. A set percentage of league revenues are required to go toward player contracts. As the revenues skyrocket so do the salaries. Owners cannot control salaries as you wish. Those are controlled purely by the market. To artificially attempt to control the cost of QB's would take collusion by the owners. This is something NFL ownership needs to avoid at all costs as it is one area that could destroy the league in the antitrust arena.

“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill
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Old 02-03-2023, 09:55 AM   #34
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Re: Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

Originally Posted by SmashMouth View Post
BMWs are notoriously finicky and unreliable, but fun when they DO work. Not every mechanic understands how to work on them ... or even drive them.
I used that reference because I own an M5. It's only been serviced twice in 4 years . The power, workmanship, and german engineering are without a doubt addictive.

Wonderful cars, but yes they do break. Especially when you have so many internal moving parts and electronics involved.

An extended warranty (through BMW) is highly recommended .

Side note - not all are "unreliable". I had an E39 (5 series) and the motor is a tank. The newer Bimmers are not nearly as reliable .
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Old 02-03-2023, 11:21 AM   #35
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Re: Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

Speaking of QB salaries ...

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Old 02-03-2023, 12:24 PM   #36
 
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Re: Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
I used that reference because I own an M5. It's only been serviced twice in 4 years . The power, workmanship, and german engineering are without a doubt addictive.

Wonderful cars, but yes they do break. Especially when you have so many internal moving parts and electronics involved.

An extended warranty (through BMW) is highly recommended .

Side note - not all are "unreliable". I had an E39 (5 series) and the motor is a tank. The newer Bimmers are not nearly as reliable .
In my younger days, I was hot on the M3. Couldn't afford it then. I got an S2000 in 2003... still have it today. It's worth more now than the day I bought it.

I am in love with the 718 Spyder. It would be a suitable replacement for the S. At about $125K + I can't justify the cost for a garage queen, even though it would do nothing but appreciate in value.
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Old 02-03-2023, 04:57 PM   #37
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Re: Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

Originally Posted by SmashMouth View Post
In my younger days, I was hot on the M3. Couldn't afford it then. I got an S2000 in 2003... still have it today. It's worth more now than the day I bought it.

I am in love with the 718 Spyder. It would be a suitable replacement for the S. At about $125K + I can't justify the cost for a garage queen, even though it would do nothing but appreciate in value.
That's awesome stuff sir Smash . I like your taste in automobiles/sportscars.

And yes, I can most definitely understand why you have kept on to your S2000.
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Old 02-04-2023, 01:53 PM   #38
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Re: Report: Saints part ways with Kris Richard

Originally Posted by SmashMouth View Post
OTOH, the flip side of that could also be argued. Just how many of our wins could have been losses... all except one or two maybe? We're not that far off from a 3 win season... just has to be next year to reap the proper benefits. We have to purge and clean up our cap and infuse real good young talent on rookie contracts.

If we're going to suck, might as well suck and not be way over the cap. It's time to clean up the CC.
That would be considered by many as giving up on Dennis Allen and not giving him the tools he needs to compete. I'm hoping for a stopgap quarterback while drafting the best available quarterback in the draft and then changing the system to fit him not Drew's old system.

With Atlanta, Carolina, and Tampa Bay looking at a serious rebuild I would hate to wait until next year to start that process for us when we would be behind the eight ball.
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