WW_Who_Dat

There is the heretofore “Tried and True way” and the new way on approach business or industry, ie Tesla, Dell, Apple and dare I say the Saints. All three were industry disrupters / trend setters ahead of the stated norm.

Rugby Saint II

Death, taxes and the cap going up are the only constants in life. Yeah, I know there was the covid year when the cap dropped. But, I've been brought back from the edge of death and got back a larger tax refund than expected. So, anything is possible.

BakoSaint

And because the cap keeps going up, Michael Thomas and Andrus Peat will keep paying a lot of taxes until they die, because Mickey Loomis will never be willing to take the cap hit to cut them, when he can always take a fraction of that cap hit the current year by keep them, and setting up a larger cap hit to move on the next year. Retirement is not certain. Neither will ever retire unless Loomis leaves first, because they will always have an offer restructure and extend.

SaintFanInATLHELL

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. You think Loomis keeps these players because of cap management issues. I think the issue is much simpler than that:

If you cut Peat and Thomas (and the others whose cans have been kicked down the road) who do you replace them with?

I know that it was 3 years ago, but MT13 was the NFL OPTY, could have been NFL MVP, and was the best receiver on the planet. Who do you get that can give you even half that type of production.

Same for Peat. Are you really willing to hope that a 2nd year guy that barely played and a upcoming drafted rookie can hold up the left side of the Saints offensive line? Peat is more than serviceable at guard and can play tackle in a pinch. So, where exactly does that versatility get replaced with?

What will eventually happen is a mid round draft pick or a UDFA will come along and perform better than the current starter. Shaheed for example. Or maybe someone like Kidd may develop this upcoming season. Then and only then will you see some of that movement you are looking for.

But the players recognize the changing landscape. Both MT13 and Peat took pay cuts to continue to play for the Saints. If they didn't, they would both be free agents.

I'm just not sure what you think the Saints should do instead. Should they literally never keep a veteran and release everyone to free agency after the 4th or 5th year? The Saints are paying proven players market value and then renegotiating when performance or availability drops below market value.

All I see that that you seem to want to complain about how the Saints do business. I'd be really interested in seeing how you think business should be done instead.

SFIAH

Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO

Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

Rugby Saint II

I believe he wants to fire everybody, clean out the roster, and start over every year rather than having an actual plan and giving it time to come to fruition. I would like to hear his plan though, if he is willing to share with the rest of us.

hitta

I clicked on this thread expecting a lot more.

Rugby Saint II

Me too.

Boston Saint

I, unfortunately, had a feeling what was going to be at the end of the rabbit hole before I clicked.

AsylumGuido

Consider the source.

BakoSaint

I want to start over once, which we have not done since 2005, because I don't believe we can contend for more than the NFC South without a rebuild and I think pretending we can will just lead to a harder crash. Yes, we won a Super Bowl in 2009-2010 but that was a long time ago, and many teams that have won more recently, and are therefore likely smarter, have embraced rebuilding or at least not maxing the cap every single year. The Rams won a year ago but are rebuilding now. The Chiefs took their foot off the gas pedal trading Tyreek Hill for picks and letting Honey Badger walk instead of extending him with a restructured contract to add cap room, and they won it all. Tampa cleaned how, cleared their cap, loaded up and got a ring, and now is tearing it down again. In the new NFL you can't win playing year to year unless you have a HOF type QB. Carr is not that. And even with one its tough. But other teams win by embracing austerity, tearing it all down, cleaning up their cap, and then going on epic spending sprees where they spend the current years cap and the next years cap all at once to field a super team. We can never spend the current years cap and the next years cap all it once, because we are in a position where without a rebuild we have always already maxxed the current years cap the previous year.

Here is my plan:

Fire Loomis and Hartley. They are less accomplished they Jerry Reese who has two rings more recently and they will receive zero interest and retire to golfing or xfl. Cut or trade older players even if they are good, including possibly Cam Jordan and/or Demario Davis. Cut or trade mid-career players who have likely reached their peak, are downhill from here, and many of whom off the field or injury issues like Kamara, Maye, Mathieu, and probably Lattimore. Take big cap hits to cut horrible contracts like Thomas, Peat, and Hill. Take all the cap hits ASAP don't stretch them out. Ellis and Olave are the sort of players we should keep. Draft a QB with athletic upside in the late first round or mid rounds. Look into a better coach, but realize no better coach may want the job with out cap and draft situation, and be willing to keep DA until we can offer a more attractive job. Trade back in the draft not up. Never sign Carr.

We would probably lose a lot of games in 2023 with a rebuild but you never know. The Falcons and Panthers embraced rebuilds in 2022 and have a lot more cap now and the Falcons cut players who were 3 years seperated from impressive offensive accomplishments, but both teams still almost won the division while rebuilding. With a good draft we could too. And I would find it more exciting to watch a young team with upside than a bunch of aging vets wondering if they have enough left in the tank to eek out the division and embaress themselves in the first round.

As for who we would replace Peat with, we will find out, because he is injured every year. Might as well give his replacement a full training camp because we will see his replacement. Peat would not make the roster on any other team in the NFL, he is the Cam Newton of guards, teams do see that if healthy he could maybe be the #32 left guard starter in the league, but they know he is old and injury prone and there is zero upside. As for MT, no player has ever come back from the string of missed games Thomas did. He is done. Michael Thomas was great in 2019 and Terrell Davis was great in 1998. But 2023 Michael Thomas is 2002 Terrell Davis, which is a golfer. He didn't test the market because he knew OBJ had contributed more recently and couldn't get more than $4 million, so us offering him $10-15 million was insane. Terrell Davis brought the Broncos 2 rings and they gave him 3 years of suckage where he only played 17 games and then they cut him loose. Michael Thomas brought us no rings, played on 10 games in 3 years, and we are giving him $10-15 million for a 4th year. The only explanation I can come up with with that Loomis and Hartley get percentage kickbacks under the table for these deals that destroy our teams chances.

If we aggressively rebuild, we can clean up our cap in 1-2 years, still have a chance in the NFC South during rebuild, and if we do lose a lot, we will get very high draft picks. Either way we emerge in 2024 or 2025 with a clean salary cap, young high draft pick players, zero dead cap, zero old injury prone players, and we are an attractive destination for a young coach.

Had we rebuilt last year, perhaps we would have lost a few more games. Then maybe we are looking at drafting Stroud or Young. Maybe next year we could draft Williams if we don't trade the pick. To me that is more exciting than the fanciful notion that Derek Carr is a super bowl QB with Peat and Panning blocking for him and magically staying healthy. We need to get back to where we were 2006-2012 with a young team, not keep running on fumes.