Derek Carr is going to shock the world

jlouhill · 04-03-2023, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Just curious if the Raiders were a death sentence to Jamarcus Russell too ?!?

Jamarcus Russell was a death sentence to Jamarcus Russell.

Boston Saint · 04-03-2023, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Just curious if the Raiders were a death sentence to Jamarcus Russell too ?!?

I think once he got his payday he checked out. It would have taken a really stable organization to keep JR on the right path. I seem to remember him quickly gaining weight and being out of shape. That was a while ago though!

saintsfan1976 · 04-03-2023, 08:18 AM

He certainly has all the physical tools. Intangibles like high character and leadership.

If healthy, this team should win 10 games and possibly host a playoff game.

But I'll caution just as I did last year - so much change in one offseason usually means much of the season can be spent building rapport on and off the field. Don't expect instant success...

rezburna · 04-03-2023, 09:44 AM

Jamarcus Russell was going through a lot of personal issues when he got to the NFL, and he was self-medicating on codeine which makes you put on weight. The Raiders organization definitely played a part in his downward spiral. He also had Lane Kiffin as his coach, definitely not NFL material. WR's? An old Joey Porter, Ronald Curry, Tim Dwight, and Johnnie Lee Higgins. Running Backs? Lamont Jordan and Justin Fargas. That was a bad Raiders teams that sent of Randy Moss the year he got there. The fact he never got an opportunity to be a backup anywhere else was odd to me as well. All I'm saying is the Raiders organization is tragic.

Boston Saint · 04-03-2023, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Jamarcus Russell was going through a lot of personal issues when he got to the NFL, and he was self-medicating on codeine which makes you put on weight. The Raiders organization definitely played a part in his downward spiral. He also had Lane Kiffin as his coach, definitely not NFL material. WR's? An old Joey Porter, Ronald Curry, Tim Dwight, and Johnnie Lee Higgins. Running Backs? Lamont Jordan and Justin Fargas. That was a bad Raiders teams that sent of Randy Moss the year he got there. The fact he never got an opportunity to be a backup anywhere else was odd to me as well. All I'm saying is the Raiders organization is tragic.

It’s rare when Oakland HASN’T been tragic. That’s why I don’t necessarily hold DA or Carr’s performance with the Raiders against them.

BakoSaint · 04-03-2023, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

It’s rare when Oakland HASN’T been tragic. That’s why I don’t necessarily hold DA or Carr’s performance with the Raiders against them.

One could argue that the Saints / Saints QBs have been more of a train wreck at the QB position than the Raiders historically.

All the Saints success with quarterbacks was with Drew Brees. Archie Manning wasted away on hopeless teams. Bobby Hebert and his lacklucker offensive cast held back an elite defense and never won a playoff game. Aaron Brooks flashed stats immediately but along with his useless head coach, never developed further. The entire Saints history is a train wreck at QB outside of Drew Brees.

The Raiders won 3 Superbowls with two Quarterbacks, Ken Stabler and Jim Plunket, and had a third quarterback who won a conference championship and NFL MVP, Rich Gannon. In general, quarterbacks have found more success with the Raiders than with the Saints, allowing for only one exception.

The same could be said for head coaches. One Saints head coach has won a playoff game past the wild card level. Two Raiders head coaches have won a total of three Super Bowls and a third has appeared in a Super Bowl.

Maybe Derek Carr will be better than ever. Maybe Dennis Allen will last. But I don't think it will be because the Raiders are some special NFL twilight zone. Outside the Payton/Brees era, the Saints are worse.

Boston Saint · 04-03-2023, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

One could argue that the Saints / Saints QBs have been more of a train wreck at the QB position than the Raiders historically.

All the Saints success with quarterbacks was with Drew Brees. Archie Manning wasted away on hopeless teams. Bobby Hebert and his lacklucker offensive cast held back an elite defense and never won a playoff game. Aaron Brooks flashed stats immediately but along with his useless head coach, never developed further. The entire Saints history is a train wreck at QB outside of Drew Brees.

The Raiders won 3 Superbowls with two Quarterbacks, Ken Stabler and Jim Plunket, and had a third quarterback who won a conference championship and NFL MVP, Rich Gannon. In general, quarterbacks have found more success with the Raiders than with the Saints, allowing for only one exception.

The same could be said for head coaches. One Saints head coach has won a playoff game past the wild card level. Two Raiders head coaches have won a total of three Super Bowls and a third has appeared in a Super Bowl.

Maybe Derek Carr will be better than ever. Maybe Dennis Allen will last. But I don't think it will be because the Raiders are some special NFL twilight zone. Outside the Payton/Brees era, the Saints are worse.

That’s a big era.

rezburna · 04-04-2023, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

One could argue that the Saints / Saints QBs have been more of a train wreck at the QB position than the Raiders historically.

All the Saints success with quarterbacks was with Drew Brees. Archie Manning wasted away on hopeless teams. Bobby Hebert and his lacklucker offensive cast held back an elite defense and never won a playoff game. Aaron Brooks flashed stats immediately but along with his useless head coach, never developed further. The entire Saints history is a train wreck at QB outside of Drew Brees.

The Raiders won 3 Superbowls with two Quarterbacks, Ken Stabler and Jim Plunket, and had a third quarterback who won a conference championship and NFL MVP, Rich Gannon. In general, quarterbacks have found more success with the Raiders than with the Saints, allowing for only one exception.

The same could be said for head coaches. One Saints head coach has won a playoff game past the wild card level. Two Raiders head coaches have won a total of three Super Bowls and a third has appeared in a Super Bowl.

Maybe Derek Carr will be better than ever. Maybe Dennis Allen will last. But I don't think it will be because the Raiders are some special NFL twilight zone. Outside the Payton/Brees era, the Saints are worse.

Pretty much all of the Raiders success happened 40 years ago. Their glory days and our failures are in the past. I was born in 1990. The Saints have been winning most of my life.

Boston Saint · 04-04-2023, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Pretty much all of the Raiders success happened 40 years ago. Their glory days and our failures are in the past. I was born in 1990. The Saints have been winning most of my life.

My nephew turns 40 this summer. He lived 25 years growing up 20 miles from the Colosseum and has been a Raiders fan all his life. He certainly would say the Saints have been (and are) a superior run franchise. Davis is not highly regarded among fans.

K Major · 04-03-2023, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

The fact he never got an opportunity to be a backup anywhere else was odd to me as well. All I'm saying is the Raiders organization is tragic.

Not sure if you caught his latest interview (the name of the show escapes me) with Ryan Clark/Fred Taylor but it was interesting.

There were also "claims" that the Raiders didn't think he was studying game film, so they sent him home with "blank tapes" to evaluate. The following day they asked him to explain what he saw and apparently he had no response.

We all have our battles and LIFE is hard but even at LSU, I had my doubts about JR's work ethic.

The measurables, talent & ability were there, but so much more is needed to succeed in the NFL. Preparation is crucial. Especially at QB.

But yeah, the Raiders really sucked as an organization and had very little support system in place.

04-03-2023, 08:26 AM	#1
jlouhill 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Denton, Tx. Posts: 692	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Originally Posted by SmashMouth Just curious if the Raiders were a death sentence to Jamarcus Russell too ?!? Jamarcus Russell was a death sentence to Jamarcus Russell. UK_WhoDat, jnormand, neugey and 3 others like this.

04-03-2023, 08:53 AM	#2
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Originally Posted by SmashMouth Just curious if the Raiders were a death sentence to Jamarcus Russell too ?!? I think once he got his payday he checked out. It would have taken a really stable organization to keep JR on the right path. I seem to remember him quickly gaining weight and being out of shape. That was a while ago though!

04-03-2023, 08:18 AM	#3
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,972 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world He certainly has all the physical tools. Intangibles like high character and leadership. If healthy, this team should win 10 games and possibly host a playoff game. But I'll caution just as I did last year - so much change in one offseason usually means much of the season can be spent building rapport on and off the field. Don't expect instant success... K Major likes this.

04-03-2023, 09:44 AM	#4
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,999	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Jamarcus Russell was going through a lot of personal issues when he got to the NFL, and he was self-medicating on codeine which makes you put on weight. The Raiders organization definitely played a part in his downward spiral. He also had Lane Kiffin as his coach, definitely not NFL material. WR's? An old Joey Porter, Ronald Curry, Tim Dwight, and Johnnie Lee Higgins. Running Backs? Lamont Jordan and Justin Fargas. That was a bad Raiders teams that sent of Randy Moss the year he got there. The fact he never got an opportunity to be a backup anywhere else was odd to me as well. All I'm saying is the Raiders organization is tragic. AsylumGuido and SmashMouth like this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

04-03-2023, 10:53 AM	#5
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Originally Posted by rezburna Jamarcus Russell was going through a lot of personal issues when he got to the NFL, and he was self-medicating on codeine which makes you put on weight. The Raiders organization definitely played a part in his downward spiral. He also had Lane Kiffin as his coach, definitely not NFL material. WR's? An old Joey Porter, Ronald Curry, Tim Dwight, and Johnnie Lee Higgins. Running Backs? Lamont Jordan and Justin Fargas. That was a bad Raiders teams that sent of Randy Moss the year he got there. The fact he never got an opportunity to be a backup anywhere else was odd to me as well. All I'm saying is the Raiders organization is tragic. It’s rare when Oakland HASN’T been tragic. That’s why I don’t necessarily hold DA or Carr’s performance with the Raiders against them. AsylumGuido, Rugby Saint II and rezburna like this.

04-03-2023, 09:13 PM	#6
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Originally Posted by Boston Saint It’s rare when Oakland HASN’T been tragic. That’s why I don’t necessarily hold DA or Carr’s performance with the Raiders against them. One could argue that the Saints / Saints QBs have been more of a train wreck at the QB position than the Raiders historically. All the Saints success with quarterbacks was with Drew Brees. Archie Manning wasted away on hopeless teams. Bobby Hebert and his lacklucker offensive cast held back an elite defense and never won a playoff game. Aaron Brooks flashed stats immediately but along with his useless head coach, never developed further. The entire Saints history is a train wreck at QB outside of Drew Brees. The Raiders won 3 Superbowls with two Quarterbacks, Ken Stabler and Jim Plunket, and had a third quarterback who won a conference championship and NFL MVP, Rich Gannon. In general, quarterbacks have found more success with the Raiders than with the Saints, allowing for only one exception. The same could be said for head coaches. One Saints head coach has won a playoff game past the wild card level. Two Raiders head coaches have won a total of three Super Bowls and a third has appeared in a Super Bowl. Maybe Derek Carr will be better than ever. Maybe Dennis Allen will last. But I don't think it will be because the Raiders are some special NFL twilight zone. Outside the Payton/Brees era, the Saints are worse. MatthewT likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303

04-03-2023, 10:02 PM	#7
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Originally Posted by BakoSaint One could argue that the Saints / Saints QBs have been more of a train wreck at the QB position than the Raiders historically. All the Saints success with quarterbacks was with Drew Brees. Archie Manning wasted away on hopeless teams. Bobby Hebert and his lacklucker offensive cast held back an elite defense and never won a playoff game. Aaron Brooks flashed stats immediately but along with his useless head coach, never developed further. The entire Saints history is a train wreck at QB outside of Drew Brees. The Raiders won 3 Superbowls with two Quarterbacks, Ken Stabler and Jim Plunket, and had a third quarterback who won a conference championship and NFL MVP, Rich Gannon. In general, quarterbacks have found more success with the Raiders than with the Saints, allowing for only one exception. The same could be said for head coaches. One Saints head coach has won a playoff game past the wild card level. Two Raiders head coaches have won a total of three Super Bowls and a third has appeared in a Super Bowl. Maybe Derek Carr will be better than ever. Maybe Dennis Allen will last. But I don't think it will be because the Raiders are some special NFL twilight zone. Outside the Payton/Brees era, the Saints are worse. That’s a big era.

04-04-2023, 10:53 AM	#8
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,999	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Originally Posted by BakoSaint One could argue that the Saints / Saints QBs have been more of a train wreck at the QB position than the Raiders historically. All the Saints success with quarterbacks was with Drew Brees. Archie Manning wasted away on hopeless teams. Bobby Hebert and his lacklucker offensive cast held back an elite defense and never won a playoff game. Aaron Brooks flashed stats immediately but along with his useless head coach, never developed further. The entire Saints history is a train wreck at QB outside of Drew Brees. The Raiders won 3 Superbowls with two Quarterbacks, Ken Stabler and Jim Plunket, and had a third quarterback who won a conference championship and NFL MVP, Rich Gannon. In general, quarterbacks have found more success with the Raiders than with the Saints, allowing for only one exception. The same could be said for head coaches. One Saints head coach has won a playoff game past the wild card level. Two Raiders head coaches have won a total of three Super Bowls and a third has appeared in a Super Bowl. Maybe Derek Carr will be better than ever. Maybe Dennis Allen will last. But I don't think it will be because the Raiders are some special NFL twilight zone. Outside the Payton/Brees era, the Saints are worse. Pretty much all of the Raiders success happened 40 years ago. Their glory days and our failures are in the past. I was born in 1990. The Saints have been winning most of my life. AsylumGuido, SmashMouth, Rugby Saint II and 3 others like this.

04-04-2023, 11:32 AM	#9
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Originally Posted by rezburna Pretty much all of the Raiders success happened 40 years ago. Their glory days and our failures are in the past. I was born in 1990. The Saints have been winning most of my life. My nephew turns 40 this summer. He lived 25 years growing up 20 miles from the Colosseum and has been a Raiders fan all his life. He certainly would say the Saints have been (and are) a superior run franchise. Davis is not highly regarded among fans. MatthewT and rezburna like this.

04-03-2023, 11:20 AM	#10
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,738 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Derek Carr is going to shock the world Originally Posted by rezburna The fact he never got an opportunity to be a backup anywhere else was odd to me as well. All I'm saying is the Raiders organization is tragic. Not sure if you caught his latest interview (the name of the show escapes me) with Ryan Clark/Fred Taylor but it was interesting. There were also "claims" that the Raiders didn't think he was studying game film, so they sent him home with "blank tapes" to evaluate. The following day they asked him to explain what he saw and apparently he had no response. We all have our battles and LIFE is hard but even at LSU, I had my doubts about JR's work ethic. The measurables, talent & ability were there, but so much more is needed to succeed in the NFL. Preparation is crucial. Especially at QB. But yeah, the Raiders really sucked as an organization and had very little support system in place. jnormand, Rugby Saint II and rezburna like this.