Grade our draft

AsylumGuido · 05-01-2023, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

As far as drafting quality players and players of need, cannot really say anything negative about this draft. With that said, can make a pretty good case that maybe some of the picks were reaches, of course if they pan out who cares. One thing I do like is the Saints did not pull the trigger early in the draft for a QB, to me that shows they are really on board with Derek Carr and will give him every opportunity he needs to be successful.

I'm curious, Matthew, how do you define a "reach"? I hear this term a lot. Does a "reach" have to have a negative connotation? If you see something you really want and are fearful of it not being there when you get to its location you "reach" out and grab it. The Saints are known to identify players that they want and are not afraid or too skittish to go get them in the draft. Both Loomis and Harley have said this verbatim several times. "When we see someone we want, we go get them."

In every case that the Saints moved up in this draft there was a very real likelihood that the player they drafted would not have been there when their next slot arose.

Recently there was posted here a study that showed the Saints had the highest success rate (players still in the league) from the first half of the draft since, I believe, 2009 of all teams in the league. This has to be related to their willingness to go and get the players they want instead of waiting to select from what is left. In other words, to reach out and get what they want.

I actually gave the Saints an "A" because they did "reach" out and get the players that they wanted and felt would fill a vital need.

MatthewT · 05-01-2023, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I'm curious, Matthew, how do you define a "reach"? I hear this term a lot. Does a "reach" have to have a negative connotation? If you see something you really want and are fearful of it not being there when you get to its location you "reach" out and grab it. The Saints are known to identify players that they want and are not afraid or too skittish to go get them in the draft. Both Loomis and Harley have said this verbatim several times. "When we see someone we want, we go get them."

In every case that the Saints moved up in this draft there was a very real likelihood that the player they drafted would not have been there when their next slot arose.

Recently there was posted here a study that showed the Saints had the highest success rate (players still in the league) from the first half of the draft since, I believe, 2009 of all teams in the league. This has to be related to their willingness to go and get the players they want instead of waiting to select from what is left. In other words, to reach out and get what they want.

I actually gave the Saints an "A" because they did "reach" out and get the players that they wanted and felt would fill a vital need.

Reach is generally a negative term, but it doesn't always need to be. In the Saints case, a few guys were taken earlier than expected per published scouting reports and draft projections. With the Saints having very specific area's that needed to be addressed, some slight reaches were expected. This always going to be an issue when a team has to draft for need instead of best player available, which is where the Saints are at right now.

Crusader · 05-01-2023, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by CheramieIII

A+ I can’t remember a draft I felt better about! We filled all the holes with solid picks. I think we might have Colston light with Perry and our O/D lines will be much improved! Haener could be the next Brees! I really like the competition they picked up for our kicker and punter!

I feel the same thing brother! I love that we picked linemen on both sides of the ball.
The Dt seems to have high ceiling. If he is healthy he will probably play a lot. The DE has a good chance of getting a lot of time in the rotation.

I am quite excited about our OL pick. He might be slotted at guard but getting a guy that can do it all is great, versatility just keeps getting more and more important.

And the most important thing for me, all of the picks seems like good people, high character and so on.

saintsfan1976 · 05-01-2023, 05:28 PM

I wanted Darnell Washington. Other than that, let's see how it goes!

Mr.Riaton · 05-01-2023, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

I wanted Darnell Washington. Other than that, let's see how it goes!

Same. I kept visualizing that big bastard helping blaze trails for our backs to do their thing in addition to becoming a great red zone threat possibly. Oh well, still like our draft

K Major · 05-01-2023, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

Same. I kept visualizing that big bastard helping blaze trails for our backs to do their thing in addition to becoming a great red zone threat possibly. Oh well, still like our draft

This will be a good talking point in a couple of years

Mr.Riaton · 05-01-2023, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

This will be a good talking point in a couple of years

I was literally just thinking that after I wrote that! Maybe we scoop him up in FA in a few years😁

AsylumGuido · 05-02-2023, 08:27 AM

Once again, I don't get the love for Darnell Washington. He describes himself as a "sixth offensive lineman". In his entire career he never displayed anything approaching being a threat in the passing game. He only had THREE TD's in his career. He averaged only 1.66 catches per game in his career. In his final five games with Georgia he only caught a total of FOUR passes!

If you want to convert him to an offensive tackle, maybe, but as a TE offensive threat .. where was it? I hear, "But, he can block!" So can Tre'Quan Smith. He's an oversized Tre'Quan.

papz · 05-02-2023, 09:04 AM

It's not difficult to see the reasons why people wanted to draft Darrell Washington, you're just not choosing to look. His size, speed, athleticism, pedigree, and blocking ability make him a very tempting prospect. Looking solely at his college production is very misleading. Georgia plays in a heavy run oriented offense and his usage rate as a receiver was not high. He also played alongside 2024 top 10 pick Brock Bowers.

So while I was neither for or against taking Washington, you could definitely see why there was appeal there. I wanted Achane instead of Miller, but that doesn't mean I can't see where Miller makes more sense. It's okay that people like Washington and you don't, vice versa.

AsylumGuido · 05-02-2023, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by papz

It's not difficult to see the reasons why people wanted to draft Darrell Washington, you're just not choosing to look. His size, speed, athleticism, pedigree, and blocking ability make him a very tempting prospect. Looking solely at his college production is very misleading. Georgia plays in a heavy run oriented offense and his usage rate as a receiver was not high. He also played alongside 2024 top 10 pick Brock Bowers.

So while I was neither for or against taking Washington, you could definitely see why there was appeal there. I wanted Achane instead of Miller, but that doesn't mean I can't see where Miller makes more sense. It's okay that people like Washington and you don't, vice versa.

I guess I'm not the only one that didn't see it. Seven TE's went before him in the draft. All 32 teams passed on him until the 30th pick in the 3rd round. Only seven TE's were drafted after him, as well. Perhaps all the teams saw him as a project. We didn't need a project. We needed players that play and produce on day one like Bresee, Foskey, and Miller.

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05-01-2023, 09:42 AM	#31
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,214	Re: Grade our draft Originally Posted by MatthewT As far as drafting quality players and players of need, cannot really say anything negative about this draft. With that said, can make a pretty good case that maybe some of the picks were reaches, of course if they pan out who cares. One thing I do like is the Saints did not pull the trigger early in the draft for a QB, to me that shows they are really on board with Derek Carr and will give him every opportunity he needs to be successful. I'm curious, Matthew, how do you define a "reach"? I hear this term a lot. Does a "reach" have to have a negative connotation? If you see something you really want and are fearful of it not being there when you get to its location you "reach" out and grab it. The Saints are known to identify players that they want and are not afraid or too skittish to go get them in the draft. Both Loomis and Harley have said this verbatim several times. "When we see someone we want, we go get them." In every case that the Saints moved up in this draft there was a very real likelihood that the player they drafted would not have been there when their next slot arose. Recently there was posted here a study that showed the Saints had the highest success rate (players still in the league) from the first half of the draft since, I believe, 2009 of all teams in the league. This has to be related to their willingness to go and get the players they want instead of waiting to select from what is left. In other words, to reach out and get what they want. I actually gave the Saints an "A" because they did "reach" out and get the players that they wanted and felt would fill a vital need.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

05-01-2023, 01:42 PM	#32
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Grade our draft Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I'm curious, Matthew, how do you define a "reach"? I hear this term a lot. Does a "reach" have to have a negative connotation? If you see something you really want and are fearful of it not being there when you get to its location you "reach" out and grab it. The Saints are known to identify players that they want and are not afraid or too skittish to go get them in the draft. Both Loomis and Harley have said this verbatim several times. "When we see someone we want, we go get them." In every case that the Saints moved up in this draft there was a very real likelihood that the player they drafted would not have been there when their next slot arose. Recently there was posted here a study that showed the Saints had the highest success rate (players still in the league) from the first half of the draft since, I believe, 2009 of all teams in the league. This has to be related to their willingness to go and get the players they want instead of waiting to select from what is left. In other words, to reach out and get what they want. I actually gave the Saints an "A" because they did "reach" out and get the players that they wanted and felt would fill a vital need. Reach is generally a negative term, but it doesn't always need to be. In the Saints case, a few guys were taken earlier than expected per published scouting reports and draft projections. With the Saints having very specific area's that needed to be addressed, some slight reaches were expected. This always going to be an issue when a team has to draft for need instead of best player available, which is where the Saints are at right now. iceshack149, SmashMouth, Rugby Saint II and 1 others like this.

05-01-2023, 02:19 PM	#33
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Re: Grade our draft Originally Posted by CheramieIII A+ I can’t remember a draft I felt better about! We filled all the holes with solid picks. I think we might have Colston light with Perry and our O/D lines will be much improved! Haener could be the next Brees! I really like the competition they picked up for our kicker and punter! I feel the same thing brother! I love that we picked linemen on both sides of the ball. The Dt seems to have high ceiling. If he is healthy he will probably play a lot. The DE has a good chance of getting a lot of time in the rotation. I am quite excited about our OL pick. He might be slotted at guard but getting a guy that can do it all is great, versatility just keeps getting more and more important. And the most important thing for me, all of the picks seems like good people, high character and so on. iceshack149, AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.
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05-01-2023, 05:28 PM	#34
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Grade our draft I wanted Darnell Washington. Other than that, let's see how it goes! turbo_dog, K Major and Mr.Riaton like this.

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05-01-2023, 05:40 PM	#35
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Grade our draft Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 I wanted Darnell Washington. Other than that, let's see how it goes! Same. I kept visualizing that big bastard helping blaze trails for our backs to do their thing in addition to becoming a great red zone threat possibly. Oh well, still like our draft turbo_dog and K Major like this.

05-01-2023, 05:43 PM	#36
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Grade our draft Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton Same. I kept visualizing that big bastard helping blaze trails for our backs to do their thing in addition to becoming a great red zone threat possibly. Oh well, still like our draft This will be a good talking point in a couple of years Mr.Riaton likes this.

05-01-2023, 05:44 PM	#37
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Grade our draft Originally Posted by K Major This will be a good talking point in a couple of years I was literally just thinking that after I wrote that! Maybe we scoop him up in FA in a few years😁

05-02-2023, 08:27 AM	#38
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,214	Re: Grade our draft Once again, I don't get the love for Darnell Washington. He describes himself as a "sixth offensive lineman". In his entire career he never displayed anything approaching being a threat in the passing game. He only had THREE TD's in his career. He averaged only 1.66 catches per game in his career. In his final five games with Georgia he only caught a total of FOUR passes! If you want to convert him to an offensive tackle, maybe, but as a TE offensive threat .. where was it? I hear, "But, he can block!" So can Tre'Quan Smith. He's an oversized Tre'Quan. MatthewT likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

05-02-2023, 09:04 AM	#39
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: Grade our draft It's not difficult to see the reasons why people wanted to draft Darrell Washington, you're just not choosing to look. His size, speed, athleticism, pedigree, and blocking ability make him a very tempting prospect. Looking solely at his college production is very misleading. Georgia plays in a heavy run oriented offense and his usage rate as a receiver was not high. He also played alongside 2024 top 10 pick Brock Bowers. So while I was neither for or against taking Washington, you could definitely see why there was appeal there. I wanted Achane instead of Miller, but that doesn't mean I can't see where Miller makes more sense. It's okay that people like Washington and you don't, vice versa. SmashMouth likes this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

05-02-2023, 09:19 AM	#40
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,214	Re: Grade our draft Originally Posted by papz It's not difficult to see the reasons why people wanted to draft Darrell Washington, you're just not choosing to look. His size, speed, athleticism, pedigree, and blocking ability make him a very tempting prospect. Looking solely at his college production is very misleading. Georgia plays in a heavy run oriented offense and his usage rate as a receiver was not high. He also played alongside 2024 top 10 pick Brock Bowers. So while I was neither for or against taking Washington, you could definitely see why there was appeal there. I wanted Achane instead of Miller, but that doesn't mean I can't see where Miller makes more sense. It's okay that people like Washington and you don't, vice versa. I guess I'm not the only one that didn't see it. Seven TE's went before him in the draft. All 32 teams passed on him until the 30th pick in the 3rd round. Only seven TE's were drafted after him, as well. Perhaps all the teams saw him as a project. We didn't need a project. We needed players that play and produce on day one like Bresee, Foskey, and Miller.