Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints

Rugby Saint II · 07-16-2023, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I believe the worse Thomas does this year, or the more he is injured, the more likely he is back in 2024. In the unlikely event that he returns to 2019 form there would be a bidding war for his services like Armstead or Williams and we might lose that war. But if he plays a few games, appears to have lost a step, fights with teammates, and then gets injured and undergoes microfracture surgery on both knees, we are likely to resign him in order to avoid the dead money cap hit, just like we have done with Peat and Winston when they have been injured or underperformed in supposedly make or break years. We face an $18 million cap hit of dead money for Thomas in 2024 but if nobody else is competing for his services we can likely retain him and keep the immediate cap hit to $11-12 million while pushing some of the dead money forward to future years, Loomis style.

I do not want to give him contract and then move the money to the future. Putting more money in an older/ often injured player may not be the best use of our limited cap money. If he wants to bet on himself with an incentive laden contract then great! If not then let someone else bet on him! He's tied into an affordable contract this year and I want to see him win the come back player of the year.

It may not be a popular opinion, but I don't think that the Saints would sign him back to another contract, no matter how well he plays. Of course, they would offer him another incentive laden contract and of course, he would probably turn it down to sign for top dollar elsewhere. I don't blame him. I would too.

Face it. He's coming off three years riddled with injury. He played well again last year before getting hurt and he's 30 now I believe. His best days are probably behind him and no one can call him reliable. I like him and I want him to have another pro bowl season, but I'm not guaranteeing him a lot of money again if I'm Mickey Loomis.

AsylumGuido · 07-16-2023, 03:31 PM

I expect Thomas to have a banner year and I fully expect the Saints, utilizing the ever expanding cap, to sign him to another long term deal. I expect Thomas to blow away all of the rest of Colston's receiving records over the next three seasons and retire as one of the all-time Saints greats. I plan on being there in the Dome when his name is added to the Saints Ring of Honor.

He was unlucky suffering those two totally unrelated injuries costing him time in his short career to this point. But, those were the ONLY two injuries. His body has taken on very little wear and tear over the last three years. He's basically still 27 years old in NFL years. There no reason why he can't continue to be an elite receiver for another six to eight years.

AsylumGuido · 07-16-2023, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I do not want to give him contract and then move the money to the future. Putting more money in an older/ often injured player may not be the best use of our limited cap money. If he wants to bet on himself with an incentive laden contract then great! If not then let someone else bet on him! He's tied into an affordable contract this year and I want to see him win the come back player of the year.

It may not be a popular opinion, but I don't think that the Saints would sign him back to another contract, no matter how well he plays. Of course, they would offer him another incentive laden contract and of course, he would probably turn it down to sign for top dollar elsewhere. I don't blame him. I would too.

Face it. He's coming off three years riddled with injury. He played well again last year before getting hurt and he's 30 now I believe. His best days are probably behind him and no one can call him reliable. I like him and I want him to have another pro bowl season, but I'm not guaranteeing him a lot of money again if I'm Mickey Loomis.

Loomis and Harley are going to continue to construct contracts in the exact same structure. That is their accounting principle to use the skyrocketing cap to maximize cap utilization. They are not going to change their philosophy in mid stride. Harley and Loomis have both said as much. It's how they have functioned and how they are going to continue to function for years to come.

WW_Who_Dat · 07-16-2023, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Loomis and Harley are going to continue to construct contracts in the exact same structure. That is their accounting principle to use the skyrocketing cap to maximize cap utilization. They are not going to change their philosophy in mid stride. Harley and Loomis have both said as much. It's how they have functioned and how they are going to continue to function for years to come.

Bako 🤯

BakoSaint · 07-16-2023, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Bako 🤯

My mind is not blown, it is resigned to this crap show. Crack addicts gonna do crack. Meth addicts gonna to meth. Opiate addicts gonna do opiates. Loomis and Hartley gonna bring back Thomas, Peat, Winston, Kamara, and Hill in 2024 and long beyond on annual restructures and all 5 will remain Saints well into their late 40’s because it will always be cheaper to restructure them than to part ways as long as they are restructured annually pushing more money back forever. At some point Loomis and Hartleys next innovation will be to negotiate taking cell samples from Peat and Thomas and splicing in HELA genes so that in some form they can live eternally in a test tube so we can carry their prorated money into the 2300’s and don’t have to take a $20 million cap hit in 2060 when when one of them dies at the restructuring table.

Crusader · 07-17-2023, 03:20 AM

I'd take him for a 6th rounder if he would play for the league minimum. Otherwise its a pass for me.

WW_Who_Dat · 07-17-2023, 09:30 AM

Not sure the origin of this Fanatsy League trade rumor. Can only speculate but The Raiders probably want to move Adam’s contract for multiple reasons one of which is they don’t have a true starting NFL QB or from the look of last season an offensive that can utilize their talent. The Raiders have not had a great reputation for their ownership, front office and roster construction for some time.

Add to this McDaniels previous and current history as a head coach and aborted attempts does not instill confidence.

I think it’s fair to look at the ecosystem that McDaniels has had success in, Kraft, Belichick and Brady. Was the Patriots Offensive system in place a McDaniels design or Belichick? Was it over time a system that heavily influence not only by Brady’s skill set but by Brady’s actual collaborative input with and signed off by Belichick? McDaniels being the guy calling plays determined week to week primarily by Brady and Belichick.

There has never been any facet of the Patriots operations and game planning that does not run thru Belichick end of story.

The Raiders dysfunction last year was obvious and just what went on behind the scenes has only partially come to light.

As usual the Raider defense abysmal, ranked 31 out of 32.

On the offensive side of the ball in overall statistics ranked 27th overall.

After Carr was benched the offense performance was 0 for 2.

Some of the Raiders offensive issues probably stem from have to mentally play from the position knowing your defense will not help the offense in any way.

Where the Raiders offense and defense rankings ended the season last year to me falls in large part on the coaching staff.

Mark Davis and the team are cash poor, have dysfunctional leadership and an ongoing question mark on competency in the their coaching staff.

There are those that do not like the manner that the Saints front office constructs their roster and manage contracts. But I think The Benson family ownership, financial stability, the front office personnel and performance has been measured, consistent and successful by any reasonable standard.

We will never be media darlings, ranked objectively by the national media or by in game commentators. Often praising and making up reasons why teams we are beating, badly at times, by inference are the better team. That will not change and I could give 2 sh**ts less about their opinions.

Rugby Saint II · 07-17-2023, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Loomis and Harley are going to continue to construct contracts in the exact same structure. That is their accounting principle to use the skyrocketing cap to maximize cap utilization. They are not going to change their philosophy in mid stride. Harley and Loomis have both said as much. It's how they have functioned and how they are going to continue to function for years to come.

The cap is growing and getting bigger every year, except for covid, when the cap dropped substantially. Nonetheless, there is still a finite amount of money to spend, no matter what your spending limit. My point is that if we only have x amount of money to spend, then don't keep spending it on injured older players.

If we pay Thomas, then it needs to be an incentive laden contract, but I don't think he would bet on himself again, and would chase the guaranteed paycheck. I'm willing to bet on him, but if he's not willing to bet on himself, then neither am I. After being around rugby for 45 years, I've seen this same scenario again and again with players returning from an extended absence. Rarely do they find their groove again.

As we age the injuries come faster. While we are recovering we favor the injury and over work other body parts. He's 30 years old and hasn't played much in the last few years. Old age has derailed several come backs. I know, I'm one of them and I tried several times when I felt healthy.

saintsfan1976 · 07-17-2023, 04:13 PM

Our WR room is not as strong as some like to think.

Boston Saint · 07-17-2023, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Our WR room is not as strong as some like to think.

It’s good on paper and if Thomas stays healthy (big if). If he’s not a go then it’s a bunch of young guys and Edwards.

07-16-2023, 01:49 PM	#21
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,762	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints Originally Posted by BakoSaint I believe the worse Thomas does this year, or the more he is injured, the more likely he is back in 2024. In the unlikely event that he returns to 2019 form there would be a bidding war for his services like Armstead or Williams and we might lose that war. But if he plays a few games, appears to have lost a step, fights with teammates, and then gets injured and undergoes microfracture surgery on both knees, we are likely to resign him in order to avoid the dead money cap hit, just like we have done with Peat and Winston when they have been injured or underperformed in supposedly make or break years. We face an $18 million cap hit of dead money for Thomas in 2024 but if nobody else is competing for his services we can likely retain him and keep the immediate cap hit to $11-12 million while pushing some of the dead money forward to future years, Loomis style. I do not want to give him contract and then move the money to the future. Putting more money in an older/ often injured player may not be the best use of our limited cap money. If he wants to bet on himself with an incentive laden contract then great! If not then let someone else bet on him! He's tied into an affordable contract this year and I want to see him win the come back player of the year. It may not be a popular opinion, but I don't think that the Saints would sign him back to another contract, no matter how well he plays. Of course, they would offer him another incentive laden contract and of course, he would probably turn it down to sign for top dollar elsewhere. I don't blame him. I would too. Face it. He's coming off three years riddled with injury. He played well again last year before getting hurt and he's 30 now I believe. His best days are probably behind him and no one can call him reliable. I like him and I want him to have another pro bowl season, but I'm not guaranteeing him a lot of money again if I'm Mickey Loomis.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

07-16-2023, 03:31 PM	#22
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints I expect Thomas to have a banner year and I fully expect the Saints, utilizing the ever expanding cap, to sign him to another long term deal. I expect Thomas to blow away all of the rest of Colston's receiving records over the next three seasons and retire as one of the all-time Saints greats. I plan on being there in the Dome when his name is added to the Saints Ring of Honor. He was unlucky suffering those two totally unrelated injuries costing him time in his short career to this point. But, those were the ONLY two injuries. His body has taken on very little wear and tear over the last three years. He's basically still 27 years old in NFL years. There no reason why he can't continue to be an elite receiver for another six to eight years.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

07-16-2023, 03:35 PM	#23
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I do not want to give him contract and then move the money to the future. Putting more money in an older/ often injured player may not be the best use of our limited cap money. If he wants to bet on himself with an incentive laden contract then great! If not then let someone else bet on him! He's tied into an affordable contract this year and I want to see him win the come back player of the year. It may not be a popular opinion, but I don't think that the Saints would sign him back to another contract, no matter how well he plays. Of course, they would offer him another incentive laden contract and of course, he would probably turn it down to sign for top dollar elsewhere. I don't blame him. I would too. Face it. He's coming off three years riddled with injury. He played well again last year before getting hurt and he's 30 now I believe. His best days are probably behind him and no one can call him reliable. I like him and I want him to have another pro bowl season, but I'm not guaranteeing him a lot of money again if I'm Mickey Loomis. Loomis and Harley are going to continue to construct contracts in the exact same structure. That is their accounting principle to use the skyrocketing cap to maximize cap utilization. They are not going to change their philosophy in mid stride. Harley and Loomis have both said as much. It's how they have functioned and how they are going to continue to function for years to come.

07-16-2023, 07:11 PM	#24
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,166 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Loomis and Harley are going to continue to construct contracts in the exact same structure. That is their accounting principle to use the skyrocketing cap to maximize cap utilization. They are not going to change their philosophy in mid stride. Harley and Loomis have both said as much. It's how they have functioned and how they are going to continue to function for years to come. Bako 🤯 AsylumGuido likes this.

07-16-2023, 07:29 PM	#25
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,765	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat Bako 🤯 My mind is not blown, it is resigned to this crap show. Crack addicts gonna do crack. Meth addicts gonna to meth. Opiate addicts gonna do opiates. Loomis and Hartley gonna bring back Thomas, Peat, Winston, Kamara, and Hill in 2024 and long beyond on annual restructures and all 5 will remain Saints well into their late 40’s because it will always be cheaper to restructure them than to part ways as long as they are restructured annually pushing more money back forever. At some point Loomis and Hartleys next innovation will be to negotiate taking cell samples from Peat and Thomas and splicing in HELA genes so that in some form they can live eternally in a test tube so we can carry their prorated money into the 2300’s and don’t have to take a $20 million cap hit in 2060 when when one of them dies at the restructuring table.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,765

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07-17-2023, 03:20 AM	#26
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 7,991	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints I'd take him for a 6th rounder if he would play for the league minimum. Otherwise its a pass for me.

07-17-2023, 09:30 AM	#27
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,166 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints Not sure the origin of this Fanatsy League trade rumor. Can only speculate but The Raiders probably want to move Adam’s contract for multiple reasons one of which is they don’t have a true starting NFL QB or from the look of last season an offensive that can utilize their talent. The Raiders have not had a great reputation for their ownership, front office and roster construction for some time. Add to this McDaniels previous and current history as a head coach and aborted attempts does not instill confidence. I think it’s fair to look at the ecosystem that McDaniels has had success in, Kraft, Belichick and Brady. Was the Patriots Offensive system in place a McDaniels design or Belichick? Was it over time a system that heavily influence not only by Brady’s skill set but by Brady’s actual collaborative input with and signed off by Belichick? McDaniels being the guy calling plays determined week to week primarily by Brady and Belichick. There has never been any facet of the Patriots operations and game planning that does not run thru Belichick end of story. The Raiders dysfunction last year was obvious and just what went on behind the scenes has only partially come to light. As usual the Raider defense abysmal, ranked 31 out of 32. On the offensive side of the ball in overall statistics ranked 27th overall. After Carr was benched the offense performance was 0 for 2. Some of the Raiders offensive issues probably stem from have to mentally play from the position knowing your defense will not help the offense in any way. Where the Raiders offense and defense rankings ended the season last year to me falls in large part on the coaching staff. Mark Davis and the team are cash poor, have dysfunctional leadership and an ongoing question mark on competency in the their coaching staff. There are those that do not like the manner that the Saints front office constructs their roster and manage contracts. But I think The Benson family ownership, financial stability, the front office personnel and performance has been measured, consistent and successful by any reasonable standard. We will never be media darlings, ranked objectively by the national media or by in game commentators. Often praising and making up reasons why teams we are beating, badly at times, by inference are the better team. That will not change and I could give 2 sh**ts less about their opinions. AsylumGuido likes this.

07-17-2023, 01:13 PM	#28
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,762	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Loomis and Harley are going to continue to construct contracts in the exact same structure. That is their accounting principle to use the skyrocketing cap to maximize cap utilization. They are not going to change their philosophy in mid stride. Harley and Loomis have both said as much. It's how they have functioned and how they are going to continue to function for years to come. The cap is growing and getting bigger every year, except for covid, when the cap dropped substantially. Nonetheless, there is still a finite amount of money to spend, no matter what your spending limit. My point is that if we only have x amount of money to spend, then don't keep spending it on injured older players. If we pay Thomas, then it needs to be an incentive laden contract, but I don't think he would bet on himself again, and would chase the guaranteed paycheck. I'm willing to bet on him, but if he's not willing to bet on himself, then neither am I. After being around rugby for 45 years, I've seen this same scenario again and again with players returning from an extended absence. Rarely do they find their groove again. As we age the injuries come faster. While we are recovering we favor the injury and over work other body parts. He's 30 years old and hasn't played much in the last few years. Old age has derailed several come backs. I know, I'm one of them and I tried several times when I felt healthy. WW_Who_Dat and BakoSaint like this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them Last edited by Rugby Saint II; 07-17-2023 at 01:27 PM..

07-17-2023, 04:13 PM	#29
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,547 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints Our WR room is not as strong as some like to think. Boston Saint likes this.

07-17-2023, 04:26 PM	#30
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,876	Re: Proposed Trade Reunites Raiders’ $140 Million Star With Derek Carr on Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Our WR room is not as strong as some like to think. It’s good on paper and if Thomas stays healthy (big if). If he’s not a go then it’s a bunch of young guys and Edwards.