Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Point is you say they stopped doing it when they did it this past draft. Are you saying you want every year to draft Oline with picks 3-6 despite team needs? Or are you just looking for your typical baseless reason to bash the front office?

If you’re gonna complain about drafting on the line, you’ve got much more ammunition on the Dline when they’ve had just as many if not more high rounds miss.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

This is why the Saints went out and got him.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

LOLz.... Eli Ricks. That won't last.

Anfernee Orji has not been talked about that much at camp. Curious to see him play more.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Played well on special teams as well as on defense vs KC last weekend.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

While a lot of people have lost faith in Pete Carmichael, I have not. I think he can be a good play-caller.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Right there with you, hitta.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Well he has a legit QB, ELITE RB, an improving TE and some good young WRs & one that is ELITE.

There is absolutely no reason for Pete Carmichael NOT to do well in 2023.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

And last year he had a passive backup QB, an offensive line missing all five starters at one point or another, a newly transitioning TE, and an ELITE WR on IR.

Lot's of reasons for Pete Carmichael to NOT do well in 2022.

Let's kick ass this year!

Who Dat!!

:bng:

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Fixed league.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

It depends on where you get your information from.

SB Nation highlighted AT Perry & actually praised his debut performance.

Edit: Here is the link on Perry

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

True and I’ve heard others praise him too. That came from @NFL though which makes it more “official” sounding. When the league highlights one receiver then neglects another who had more catches more yards and a better catch percentage then that’s saying something.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

I don’t get whats so hard to understand. When we were most successful drafting oline we used 4 midround picks on the position in 3 years. Recently we only use one mid rounder on oline every 5 years: 4th in 23, 4th in 18, 3rd in 13. Its like when people complain we aren’t running the ball, its ridiculous to reply that they are wrong bc we had one rushing attempt in the last quarter, obviously their complaintvis that we are doing it at well below league average rates. For some reason we are great at finding oline in the mid rounds but insist on using the picks there at a far below league average rate, so when we have oline injuries the backup is not a young 4 th rounder with upside they are a journeyman or udfa we can scapegoat losses on.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

I hear what you're saying. Maybe we just don't draft linemen very well. It's been quite some time since we nailed a first round lineman on offense of defense.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Ramczyk is really good. Penning has signs of being a stud. Ruiz has really come on strong. Peat has been a three time pro bowler ('18, 19', 20') but hampered by injuries. That's not too bad for 1st rounders on that side of the ball.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

That still doesn’t make sense. So, rather than draft say, Ram, you would have waited and drafted a different o lineman in the 4th round instead? Whether it be making moves like trading Graham for a pick and Unger or NOT signing Armstead to the big contract you hate to spending high draft capital on the position the team has regularly done what has needed to maintain a top 10 offensive line in the league. Even a guy like Peat. I like to hack on him as much or more than the next guy but he is by far not the worst first round draft pick we’ve made. He’s even been to a few pro bowls.

Last year was a massive injury fest on the line. That really hurt us. But as pointed out by others practically every team has line questions. Over the past 20 seasons, the Saints have handled it better than most in the league. Sorry, I just don’t buy into the premise that the key to getting a good line is drafting guys in round 3, 4, and five frequently rather than draft them in round 1 or 2. We lose out on guys like Kamara that way.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

I never said we should never draft oline in the 1st round. But since 2015 we have drafted 5 oline in the 1st round, zero in the 3rd, two in the 4th, and zero in the 5th. We are ok at drafting oline in the 1st but Ramczyk is our biggest hit. Meanwhile with midround picks on oline over the years we have hit on Armstead, Evans, Nicks, and Bushrod, like half our mid round picks on oline have been starters and like one third pro bowlers.

I feel like a very 1st round heavy and mid-round light drafting strategy for oline is bad for our team. The result is a line of players who were entitled to start from day 1 bc they are 1st round picks and then a group of backups who are mostly journeymen, udfa, or very late rounds and dont have the physical tools to push them. Guys like Peat and Ruiz can feel entitled coming out of the draft bc they dont really have to compete, and as they dont progress they can still start bc the guy pushing them is an udfa without the size or athletics to match them, so they still feel like heroes without having to work. If you get two mid-rounders and one first round pick, the mid rounders have to compete to start, the 1st rounder sees a healthy competition and feels maybe he needs to compete too. If you just take two 1st rounders they both get entitled and maybe one of them works hard anyway and the other doesnt, but it doesnt matter they both start. And then if one gets hurt the udfa backup comes in and doesnt have the tools usually so you lose and blame injury. But if you have a bunch of depth from the mid rounds, your backup will be better, and can even compete to keep his job when the starter comes back. So I just think the strategy of building an oline from 5 first rounders who are all slated to start from day 1 (even if there is sometimes a 1 year wait with some impending free agent we dont plan to resign) is a bad way to build a team. You need competition. UDFA and journeyman are often not enough to provide it. Add to that we are great at finding gems on oline in the mid rounds, half our picks there perform like 1st rounders. We just refuse to pick oline much there since after our success at it in 06-08.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Fair enough. Seems to me that over that time period that the line was stable enough and they addressed deficiencies enough with multiple 1st rounder picks and trades/signings that adding 3-4 rounders either a) would not have made a difference and b) would have neglected other positions of need. I could be wrong. Just seems a pretty specific complaint though.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

I agree that the line was stable ON PAPER. I feel like we built a paper oline by neglecting the mid rounds. I think where that got us was a guy like Peat never got pushed, like imagine if we had taken a mid-round guard and they turned into what our mid-round guard picks in the past had turned into about half the time, like a Nicks or Evans. Then Peat loses his spot, has to work harder to get back in the mix, and we have depth and flexibility. Or Ruiz. I am glad he came around now. But maybe if he has competition he comes around better and faster. But ultimately its all about depth. It seems like our formula on oline is to stack up 5 starters, maybe one depth guy maybe, and the rest is udfa and journeymen nobodies. So whenever we have one injury on oline half the oline shifts positions because we 'value versatility' as an alternative to actual depth, and then some nobody comes in for an injury, and we blame the season on it.

With all the oline injuries we had over the years, I can't imagine it wouldn't have made a difference to have 4th rounders subbing in versus UDFA. And if one of those 4th rounders becomes a Nicks or Evans, that definitely makes a difference.

As far as neglecting other positions, a big thing would be trading up less, because we flush so many round 3-5 picks trading up. We could draft the same positions 12 picks later and have way better oline depth and maybe the same player we would have picked falls to us, maybe not. There is no guarantee Davenport would not have fallen to us if we waited, though he was a bust anyway. We also drafted Garrett Grayson when we were many years from moving on from Brees, and now we drafted Jake Haener where if he was great, the cap pain of moving on from Derek Carr and Jameis Winston and Taysom Hill would mean he would have to be the greatest QB of all time and be able to succeed even if we let the entire offense walk and surrounded him with 2022 Houston Texans caliber weapons, which is what we would need to do to afford moving on from Carr and company. I guess the timing was better for the Ian Cook experiment but the result was poor and again, if we have a long history of hitting shots on mid rounds guards and a long history missing shots on mid round QBs, why not take the shot you have shown you can hit?

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Ramczyk is really good. Penning still has to prove it and could still be considered a project because he isn't known for his blocking and Peat being in the pro bowl means nothing. He spends too much time on the ground and was responsible for the one pressure on Carr. Ruiz might be a quality starter but three years before developing for a first round draft pick isn't the ideal scenario. I'm sticking to my guns that we haven't drafted well.

Although, I have high hopes for Saldiveri. He can be another big nasty on the OL with good coaching. Yeah, I still need to see more from those guys before I can give them a vote of confidence.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Incoming trigger alert:

https://x.com/saints/status/16926284...HaGNivo0JqzOWQ

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

It seems like it’s being completely overused. It’s starting to become annoying. Lol

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Stacking. It's the new black! :wink:

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Journalists are just doing their job, stacking trendy catchphrases.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

Okay that was funny. Made me stack laughs like Peat stacks sammiches.

Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong
 

:roflmao: