Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Sinner · 02-05-2024, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

There is a lot more to all of this than just business and very little brand loyalty regardless of what delusional rationalization has been levied. Its little more than logical fallacy and if you pick at a thread it all unravels..

- If Gayle stated that she saw Mickey as a son that would be rather sick as she is only 9 years older than he is. She has zero children and should be fairly aware of the perception of age gap since Tom was 20 years older as she was only 1 year away from Toms son's age.

- As far as any blind devotion to Loomis from Gayle or Tom for that matter. In 2012 Sean Payton wanted a clause in his contract that would allow him to leave if Loomis were ever suspended, fired, or left the organization. Sean would have known if there was any sort of blind devotion to Loomis and that clause wouldn't have been requested. The league rejected the language because of the bad precedent it would set for future coaching contracts.

- Tom fought and disowned his own family to prevent the Saints from being moved and his will named Gayle as sole owner because his children would have sold and or moved the team. We can keep thanking Tom for the Saints being in New Orleans as well as the fact that the Superdome lease is not up until 2030. After that, if there is no venue, secessions can read anyway they want the team will be sold out of state because no one in Louisiana will buy a team with no place to play.

- Guess who will administrate Gayle Benon's estate? Not the pseudo son Loomis, its Dennis Lauscha. Tom's will stated that if the trust formed the same day the secession was signed ceases to exist, all of his property would go into another trust run by Gayle and Dennis Lauscha, with Gayle having exclusive voting power in matters concerning the sports franchises.

- Lastly is the premise that Gayle has this mystical generationally dependent loyalty to the franchise. That sort of loyalty wouldn't let the franchise go to shi1t over the course of two years without swinging an axe at those held accountable for its success.

See dat right here ^^^ ? Yep.

saintsfan1976 · 02-05-2024, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more?

Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL.

Penning, Ruiz and Peat are proof they should continue!

AsylumGuido · 02-05-2024, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more?

Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL.

Something has changed in college football over the last decade. New rules from the NCAA has limited greatly the number of hours a school can have contact with the "student athlete". That limit is now 20 hours a week in season of countable activities. Every program has dumbed down their offenses to where almost none of them play anything resembling a pro style scheme. We're not the only franchise having difficulty plugging draftees into the starting offensive line. It's happening all across the league. Teams are holding onto veterans longer and seeing players in that position group age 35 and beyond is becoming rather commonplace just out of sheer need.

K Major · 02-05-2024, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more?

Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL.

All I know is that this scouting team led by Jeff Ireland better "hit" on these 2024 picks. Make em all count. Especially that 1st rd pick. We need more quality starters (see Ramz, Olave, McCoy), not developmental guys.

Payton Turner, Trevor Penning (year #3), WTFoskey (essentially a rookie redshirt) Marcus Davenport's of the world are looking like huge 1st round "misses".

In rd 1, I don't have the expectation of getting a Hall of Famer draft pick but I do expect to get a QUALITY NFL starter. Anything above that is lagniappe.

It's time for another 2017 SAINTS NFL DRAFT CLASS.

K Major · 02-05-2024, 12:40 PM

BTW, Max Unger was a terrific free agent acquisition. Elite player.

At the time, I thought trading Jimmy G for a Olineman was foolish.

It's time to get meaner on that offensive line. Adding Kubiak definitely helps our case in those trenches.

TheOak · 02-05-2024, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more?

Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL.

I’m going to poke now. Andrus Peat - Are we really O-Lining as hard as we should be?

The offensive line is 5 positions, we typically carry 8-9 on the roster and 1-2 on the PS. Remember that screen game and how devastating it was? While Pierre Thomas screen vision was probably unmatched, that line had a lot to do with it as well. That screen game would have been even more devastating if Bush could have run 1/2 as much vertically as he did sideline to sideline.

You might see that the decline started trending when we started handing out giant contracts to ball handlers.

AsylumGuido · 02-05-2024, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I’m going to poke now. Andrus Peat - Are we really O-Lining as hard as we should be?

The offensive line is 5 positions, we typically carry 8-9 on the roster and 1-2 on the PS. Remember that screen game and how devastating it was? While Pierre Thomas screen vision was probably unmatched, that line had a lot to do with it as well. That screen game would have been even more devastating if Bush could have run 1/2 as much vertically as he did sideline to sideline.

You might see that the decline started trending when we started handing out giant contracts to ball handlers.

A major factor in the success of that line was the ability to play virtually every snap of every season as that same five man unit. A couple of years ago we had something like 12 or 13 different o-line configurations in 16 or 17 games.

saintsfan1976 · 02-06-2024, 10:26 AM

What if we had drafted o line with the multiple picks traded for Davenport?

Or Zach Baun?

Or Adam Trautman?

Or Eli Apple?

AsylumGuido · 02-06-2024, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

What if we had drafted o line with the multiple picks traded for Davenport?

Or Zach Baun?

Or Adam Trautman?

Or Eli Apple?

We'd probably have more Landon Youngs, Rick Leonards, Charles Browns, Matt Tennants, Andrew Tillers, and Nick Saldiveris being developed, or not.

02-05-2024, 12:10 PM	#61
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,873	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by TheOak There is a lot more to all of this than just business and very little brand loyalty regardless of what delusional rationalization has been levied. Its little more than logical fallacy and if you pick at a thread it all unravels.. - If Gayle stated that she saw Mickey as a son that would be rather sick as she is only 9 years older than he is. She has zero children and should be fairly aware of the perception of age gap since Tom was 20 years older as she was only 1 year away from Toms son's age. - As far as any blind devotion to Loomis from Gayle or Tom for that matter. In 2012 Sean Payton wanted a clause in his contract that would allow him to leave if Loomis were ever suspended, fired, or left the organization. Sean would have known if there was any sort of blind devotion to Loomis and that clause wouldn't have been requested. The league rejected the language because of the bad precedent it would set for future coaching contracts. - Tom fought and disowned his own family to prevent the Saints from being moved and his will named Gayle as sole owner because his children would have sold and or moved the team. We can keep thanking Tom for the Saints being in New Orleans as well as the fact that the Superdome lease is not up until 2030. After that, if there is no venue, secessions can read anyway they want the team will be sold out of state because no one in Louisiana will buy a team with no place to play. - Guess who will administrate Gayle Benon's estate? Not the pseudo son Loomis, its Dennis Lauscha. Tom's will stated that if the trust formed the same day the secession was signed ceases to exist, all of his property would go into another trust run by Gayle and Dennis Lauscha, with Gayle having exclusive voting power in matters concerning the sports franchises. - Lastly is the premise that Gayle has this mystical generationally dependent loyalty to the franchise. That sort of loyalty wouldn't let the franchise go to shi1t over the course of two years without swinging an axe at those held accountable for its success. See dat right here ^^^ ? Yep.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,873

02-05-2024, 12:15 PM	#62
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by SmashMouth It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more? Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL. Penning, Ruiz and Peat are proof they should continue!

02-05-2024, 12:18 PM	#63
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,212	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by SmashMouth It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more? Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL. Something has changed in college football over the last decade. New rules from the NCAA has limited greatly the number of hours a school can have contact with the "student athlete". That limit is now 20 hours a week in season of countable activities. Every program has dumbed down their offenses to where almost none of them play anything resembling a pro style scheme. We're not the only franchise having difficulty plugging draftees into the starting offensive line. It's happening all across the league. Teams are holding onto veterans longer and seeing players in that position group age 35 and beyond is becoming rather commonplace just out of sheer need. SmashMouth likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-05-2024, 12:33 PM	#64
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by SmashMouth It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more? Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL. All I know is that this scouting team led by Jeff Ireland better "hit" on these 2024 picks. Make em all count. Especially that 1st rd pick. We need more quality starters (see Ramz, Olave, McCoy), not developmental guys. Payton Turner, Trevor Penning (year #3), WTFoskey (essentially a rookie redshirt) Marcus Davenport's of the world are looking like huge 1st round "misses". In rd 1, I don't have the expectation of getting a Hall of Famer draft pick but I do expect to get a QUALITY NFL starter. Anything above that is lagniappe. It's time for another 2017 SAINTS NFL DRAFT CLASS. SmashMouth likes this.

02-05-2024, 12:40 PM	#65
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. BTW, Max Unger was a terrific free agent acquisition. Elite player. At the time, I thought trading Jimmy G for a Olineman was foolish. It's time to get meaner on that offensive line. Adding Kubiak definitely helps our case in those trenches. SmashMouth likes this.

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02-05-2024, 04:46 PM	#66
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by SmashMouth It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more? Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL. I’m going to poke now. Andrus Peat - Are we really O-Lining as hard as we should be? The offensive line is 5 positions, we typically carry 8-9 on the roster and 1-2 on the PS. Remember that screen game and how devastating it was? While Pierre Thomas screen vision was probably unmatched, that line had a lot to do with it as well. That screen game would have been even more devastating if Bush could have run 1/2 as much vertically as he did sideline to sideline. You might see that the decline started trending when we started handing out giant contracts to ball handlers.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

02-05-2024, 04:55 PM	#67
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,212	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by TheOak I’m going to poke now. Andrus Peat - Are we really O-Lining as hard as we should be? The offensive line is 5 positions, we typically carry 8-9 on the roster and 1-2 on the PS. Remember that screen game and how devastating it was? While Pierre Thomas screen vision was probably unmatched, that line had a lot to do with it as well. That screen game would have been even more devastating if Bush could have run 1/2 as much vertically as he did sideline to sideline. You might see that the decline started trending when we started handing out giant contracts to ball handlers. A major factor in the success of that line was the ability to play virtually every snap of every season as that same five man unit. A couple of years ago we had something like 12 or 13 different o-line configurations in 16 or 17 games.

02-06-2024, 10:26 AM	#68
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. What if we had drafted o line with the multiple picks traded for Davenport? Or Zach Baun? Or Adam Trautman? Or Eli Apple?

02-06-2024, 12:49 PM	#69
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,212	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 What if we had drafted o line with the multiple picks traded for Davenport? Or Zach Baun? Or Adam Trautman? Or Eli Apple? We'd probably have more Landon Youngs, Rick Leonards, Charles Browns, Matt Tennants, Andrew Tillers, and Nick Saldiveris being developed, or not.