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Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can ...

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Old 02-01-2024, 10:33 AM   #1
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed.

This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes.
Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations...
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Old 02-01-2024, 10:42 AM   #2
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by iceshack149 View Post
Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations...
I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago.

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Old 02-01-2024, 11:24 AM   #3
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago.
You're missing the point. Generally speaking, loyalty is an admirable quality. Blind loyalty is the sense of giving yourself entirely to someone without caring what he/she will do to your organization.
We all knew that Carmichael was in over his head but Loomis and Gayle Benson kept him anyway. They knew that he was a terrible OC but the team and it's fans be damned. That angered a lot of us for good reason.
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Old 02-01-2024, 11:34 AM   #4
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by iceshack149 View Post
You're missing the point. Generally speaking, loyalty is an admirable quality. Blind loyalty is the sense of giving yourself entirely to someone without caring what he/she will do to your organization.
We all knew that Carmichael was in over his head but Loomis and Gayle Benson kept him anyway. They knew that he was a terrible OC but the team and it's fans be damned. That angered a lot of us for good reason.
I have come to the realization that some fans are much quicker to anger than others. I suppose their (Gayle's) loyalty is stronger for those they know and love than for the fear of any anger from random fans. Would you not agree that this is understandable?
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Old 02-01-2024, 12:10 PM   #5
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
I have come to the realization that some fans are much quicker to anger than others. I suppose their (Gayle's) loyalty is stronger for those they know and love than for the fear of any anger from random fans. Would you not agree that this is understandable?
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Old 02-01-2024, 12:25 PM   #6
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by iceshack149 View Post
Nope. Not missing the point. I believe you are assuming that their viewpoint of the situation was the same as yours. You said "We all knew that Carmichael was in over his head." Given that they have far more insight than any of us out here we cannot assume that their take was the same as yours. In fact, it most likely wasn't. I suppose some fan's anger would be based on Loomis and Gayle not seeing things exactly as those on the outside looking in. And this applies to many aspects. Perhaps they saw us still being in reach of that playoff spot, which we absolutely were. Would a total shakeup in midstream make things better or perhaps make things worse? Who knows? Or maybe it was blind loyalty with them knowing Carmichael was hurting more than helping. Perhaps. But, it is all still their prerogative over us as fans, correct? Gayle does own the team, not us.

By all means be angry, but just know that no owner really cares what every fan thinks. Nor should they. They know for a fact that almost anything they do or don't do, say or don't say, is going to piss off someone.


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Old 02-01-2024, 11:29 AM   #7
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago.
It is abundantly clear now, that Gayle sees the Saints as far more (or less) than a progressive, WINNING FOOTBALL TEAM. it is also clear that there are fans who will buy the merch, go to the games, and feel really good about whatever it is that Gayle sees, and continues to put on the field for fans to see.

The rest of us came here to watch WINNING FOOTBALL, and it AINT happening.
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Old 02-05-2024, 07:25 AM   #8
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by iceshack149 View Post
Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations...
There is a lot more to all of this than just business and very little brand loyalty regardless of what delusional rationalization has been levied. Its little more than logical fallacy and if you pick at a thread it all unravels..

- If Gayle stated that she saw Mickey as a son that would be rather sick as she is only 9 years older than he is. She has zero children and should be fairly aware of the perception of age gap since Tom was 20 years older as she was only 1 year away from Toms son's age.

- As far as any blind devotion to Loomis from Gayle or Tom for that matter. In 2012 Sean Payton wanted a clause in his contract that would allow him to leave if Loomis were ever suspended, fired, or left the organization. Sean would have known if there was any sort of blind devotion to Loomis and that clause wouldn't have been requested. The league rejected the language because of the bad precedent it would set for future coaching contracts.

- Tom fought and disowned his own family to prevent the Saints from being moved and his will named Gayle as sole owner because his children would have sold and or moved the team. We can keep thanking Tom for the Saints being in New Orleans as well as the fact that the Superdome lease is not up until 2030. After that, if there is no venue, secessions can read anyway they want the team will be sold out of state because no one in Louisiana will buy a team with no place to play.

- Guess who will administrate Gayle Benon's estate? Not the pseudo son Loomis, its Dennis Lauscha. Tom's will stated that if the trust formed the same day the secession was signed ceases to exist, all of his property would go into another trust run by Gayle and Dennis Lauscha, with Gayle having exclusive voting power in matters concerning the sports franchises.

- Lastly is the premise that Gayle has this mystical generationally dependent loyalty to the franchise. That sort of loyalty wouldn't let the franchise go to shi1t over the course of two years without swinging an axe at those held accountable for its success.
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Old 02-05-2024, 11:10 AM   #9
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Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
There is a lot more to all of this than just business and very little brand loyalty regardless of what delusional rationalization has been levied. Its little more than logical fallacy and if you pick at a thread it all unravels..

- If Gayle stated that she saw Mickey as a son that would be rather sick as she is only 9 years older than he is. She has zero children and should be fairly aware of the perception of age gap since Tom was 20 years older as she was only 1 year away from Toms son's age.

- As far as any blind devotion to Loomis from Gayle or Tom for that matter. In 2012 Sean Payton wanted a clause in his contract that would allow him to leave if Loomis were ever suspended, fired, or left the organization. Sean would have known if there was any sort of blind devotion to Loomis and that clause wouldn't have been requested. The league rejected the language because of the bad precedent it would set for future coaching contracts.

- Tom fought and disowned his own family to prevent the Saints from being moved and his will named Gayle as sole owner because his children would have sold and or moved the team. We can keep thanking Tom for the Saints being in New Orleans as well as the fact that the Superdome lease is not up until 2030. After that, if there is no venue, secessions can read anyway they want the team will be sold out of state because no one in Louisiana will buy a team with no place to play.

- Guess who will administrate Gayle Benon's estate? Not the pseudo son Loomis, its Dennis Lauscha. Tom's will stated that if the trust formed the same day the secession was signed ceases to exist, all of his property would go into another trust run by Gayle and Dennis Lauscha, with Gayle having exclusive voting power in matters concerning the sports franchises.

- Lastly is the premise that Gayle has this mystical generationally dependent loyalty to the franchise. That sort of loyalty wouldn't let the franchise go to shi1t over the course of two years without swinging an axe at those held accountable for its success.
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