Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

SmashMouth · 02-01-2024, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Much like a meme that makes you laugh way harder than it should this is intriguing the crap out pf me. If I am Gayle, I am on a plane to Denver to buy Sean dinner and ask him what I am missing? Why did he really leave?

Gayle just let go of an 18 year employee because she was led to believe he was the roadblock to the teams success. Only to wake up to the person that arguably knows his talents best but owes him nothing picking him up.

Lets assume Pete is as useless as we've tried to believe. This would make Sean an idiot and does not explain the success they had together in New Orleans. Drew might explain that but I struggle with it being a 1 man show.

Lets assume Pete is as good as Sean thinks he is. Did Pete just tank a season to get out of New Orleans? What is so bad in New Orleans that he would do that? How did Dennis Allen not see it and allow it to happen? I have so many questions and they all have very dark implications.

SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines?

Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well.

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Much like a meme that makes you laugh way harder than it should this is intriguing the crap out pf me. If I am Gayle, I am on a plane to Denver to buy Sean dinner and ask him what I am missing? Why did he really leave?

Gayle just let go of an 18 year employee because she was led to believe he was the roadblock to the teams success. Only to wake up to the person that arguably knows his talents best but owes him nothing picking him up.

Lets assume Pete is as useless as we've tried to believe. This would make Sean an idiot and does not explain the success they had together in New Orleans. Drew might explain that but I struggle with it being a 1 man show.

Lets assume Pete is as good as Sean thinks he is. Did Pete just tank a season to get out of New Orleans? What is so bad in New Orleans that he would do that? How did Dennis Allen not see it and allow it to happen? I have so many questions and they all have very dark implications.

Carmichael's failure as the Saints OC was the result of his play calling and what I suspect was his play design. With Payton, and Brees, he reportedly contributed to the designing of those amazing plays that Payton called and Brees executed. From what I have read and heard from others, including Brees, Carmichael contributed greatly to those design sessions. Over the past couple of seasons he was missing his creative partners. He was Rodgers without Hammerstein, Bernie Taupin without Elton John, or Larry without Moe and Curly.

I do not believe it was anything as nefarious as you appear to presume. I believe that Pete Carmichael simply doesn't have it in him to do it on his own. We all should remember correctly that Carmichael did show a certain hesitancy assuming the full duties of OC when Payton left.

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines?

Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well.

Just saw your reply. Carmichael definitely has his strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately his strengths seem to be tied to Payton. Yes, I wish him well, as well.

TheOak · 02-01-2024, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines?

Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well.

Yes great for Pete. Great for anyone that can manage to maintain a career in that league. Will be interesting to see what his role will be as Denver has not jetted Joseph Lombardi.

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Yes great for Pete. Great for anyone that can manage to maintain a career in that league. Will be interesting to see what his role will be as Denver has not jetted Joseph Lombardi.

Carmichael's title is that of Senior Offensive Assistant. Sounds like he'll be joining Payton back in the lab brewing up new plays.

iceshack149 · 02-01-2024, 11:16 AM

Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season.

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season.

I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed.

This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes.

iceshack149 · 02-01-2024, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed.

This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes.

Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations...

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations...

I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago.

iceshack149 · 02-01-2024, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago.

You're missing the point. Generally speaking, loyalty is an admirable quality. Blind loyalty is the sense of giving yourself entirely to someone without caring what he/she will do to your organization.
We all knew that Carmichael was in over his head but Loomis and Gayle Benson kept him anyway. They knew that he was a terrible OC but the team and it's fans be damned. That angered a lot of us for good reason.

02-01-2024, 08:15 AM	#21
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,123 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by TheOak Much like a meme that makes you laugh way harder than it should this is intriguing the crap out pf me. If I am Gayle, I am on a plane to Denver to buy Sean dinner and ask him what I am missing? Why did he really leave? Gayle just let go of an 18 year employee because she was led to believe he was the roadblock to the teams success. Only to wake up to the person that arguably knows his talents best but owes him nothing picking him up. Lets assume Pete is as useless as we've tried to believe. This would make Sean an idiot and does not explain the success they had together in New Orleans. Drew might explain that but I struggle with it being a 1 man show. Lets assume Pete is as good as Sean thinks he is. Did Pete just tank a season to get out of New Orleans? What is so bad in New Orleans that he would do that? How did Dennis Allen not see it and allow it to happen? I have so many questions and they all have very dark implications. SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines? Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well. AsylumGuido likes this.

02-01-2024, 09:03 AM	#22
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,212	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by TheOak Much like a meme that makes you laugh way harder than it should this is intriguing the crap out pf me. If I am Gayle, I am on a plane to Denver to buy Sean dinner and ask him what I am missing? Why did he really leave? Gayle just let go of an 18 year employee because she was led to believe he was the roadblock to the teams success. Only to wake up to the person that arguably knows his talents best but owes him nothing picking him up. Lets assume Pete is as useless as we've tried to believe. This would make Sean an idiot and does not explain the success they had together in New Orleans. Drew might explain that but I struggle with it being a 1 man show. Lets assume Pete is as good as Sean thinks he is. Did Pete just tank a season to get out of New Orleans? What is so bad in New Orleans that he would do that? How did Dennis Allen not see it and allow it to happen? I have so many questions and they all have very dark implications. Carmichael's failure as the Saints OC was the result of his play calling and what I suspect was his play design. With Payton, and Brees, he reportedly contributed to the designing of those amazing plays that Payton called and Brees executed. From what I have read and heard from others, including Brees, Carmichael contributed greatly to those design sessions. Over the past couple of seasons he was missing his creative partners. He was Rodgers without Hammerstein, Bernie Taupin without Elton John, or Larry without Moe and Curly. I do not believe it was anything as nefarious as you appear to presume. I believe that Pete Carmichael simply doesn't have it in him to do it on his own. We all should remember correctly that Carmichael did show a certain hesitancy assuming the full duties of OC when Payton left.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-01-2024, 09:06 AM	#23
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,212	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by SmashMouth SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines? Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well. Just saw your reply. Carmichael definitely has his strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately his strengths seem to be tied to Payton. Yes, I wish him well, as well.

02-01-2024, 09:53 AM	#24
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by SmashMouth SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines? Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well. Yes great for Pete. Great for anyone that can manage to maintain a career in that league. Will be interesting to see what his role will be as Denver has not jetted Joseph Lombardi. K Major likes this.

02-01-2024, 09:56 AM	#25
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,212	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by TheOak Yes great for Pete. Great for anyone that can manage to maintain a career in that league. Will be interesting to see what his role will be as Denver has not jetted Joseph Lombardi. Carmichael's title is that of Senior Offensive Assistant. Sounds like he'll be joining Payton back in the lab brewing up new plays.

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02-01-2024, 11:16 AM	#26
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,258 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season.

02-01-2024, 11:32 AM	#27
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,212	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by iceshack149 Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season. I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed. This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes.

02-01-2024, 11:33 AM	#28
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,258 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed. This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes. Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations... Sinner likes this.

02-01-2024, 11:42 AM	#29
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,212	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by iceshack149 Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations... I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-01-2024, 12:24 PM	#30
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,258 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago. You're missing the point. Generally speaking, loyalty is an admirable quality. Blind loyalty is the sense of giving yourself entirely to someone without caring what he/she will do to your organization. We all knew that Carmichael was in over his head but Loomis and Gayle Benson kept him anyway. They knew that he was a terrible OC but the team and it's fans be damned. That angered a lot of us for good reason.