Haener

AsylumGuido · 01-02-2024, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Yeah, me either. If DA was getting fired the front office might want to see what the boys got.....but, alas.....we'll keep doing what we're doing. Which, is struggling to break even with DA leading us for another crappy season in 2024.

There isn't another coach in the league that would put in an unproven rookie over a veteran when there is still a shot of making the playoffs. Not a single one.

I don't know who's going to be coaching next year, but I'll be pulling for my Saints as I have for the past 56 plus years.

iceshack149 · 01-02-2024, 05:19 PM

I know that this will bring the ire of a few posters here but Derek Carr really isn't the Saints biggest problem right now and he's likely better than Winston and Haener. In the next draft the Saints should focus on building from the ground up, so to speak. Work on both lines (especially the O-line) and go from there. I'd even get an LB or RB before thinking about drafting a QB.

Carr's numbers aren't bad

-- I know he's got situational awareness issues-- but I think that the Saints can work with him going forward. That and they're married to his contract for a while as well.

rezburna · 01-02-2024, 07:02 PM

At this point, we have to be realistic and assess the situation based on the way this organization runs. I’m pretty sure Carr will be the QB and Allen will be the coach. Saints have the 13th ranked defense which will save Allen his job, and I’ve started seeing more and more Saints fan make the same excuses for Carr that Raiders fans did for those 9 years of mediocrity. They’re going to run it back and we’ll have to pray for the best. I’m not sure who the offensive coordinator will be, but Ken Dorsey fits the mold of someone I believe Mickey Loomis would like.

Any optimism I had about this organization is currently running close to empty. I see Carr as nothing more than an expensive band aid trying to cover up multiple bullet wounds. I don’t think he’s better than Jameis Winston at anything other than protecting the ball. Andy Dalton could have given us 21 TD’s and 8 picks on a season for a whole lot cheaper, but Carr and his contract is here to stay.

This rebuild is going to be messy, and if we aren’t strategic and lucky, very long. Depending on what we do going forward, we could have $96 million in cap space going into 2026. That’s the Arch Manning year. Sounds like a story the NFL script writers might be interested in. Arch comes home to New Orleans to redeem his grandfathers team.

Sinner · 01-02-2024, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

At this point, we have to be realistic and assess the situation based on the way this organization runs. I’m pretty sure Carr will be the QB and Allen will be the coach. Saints have the 13th ranked defense which will save Allen his job, and I’ve started seeing more and more Saints fan make the same excuses for Carr that Raiders fans did for those 9 years of mediocrity. They’re going to run it back and we’ll have to pray for the best. I’m not sure who the offensive coordinator will be, but Ken Dorsey fits the mold of someone I believe Mickey Loomis would like.

Any optimism I had about this organization is currently running close to empty. I see Carr as nothing more than an expensive band aid trying to cover up multiple bullet wounds. I don’t think he’s better than Jameis Winston at anything other than protecting the ball. Andy Dalton could have given us 21 TD’s and 8 picks on a season for a whole lot cheaper, but Carr and his contract is here to stay.

This rebuild is going to be messy, and if we aren’t strategic and lucky, very long. Depending on what we do going forward, we could have $96 million in cap space going into 2026. That’s the Arch Manning year. Sounds like a story the NFL script writers might be interested in. Arch comes home to New Orleans to redeem his grandfathers team.

Gonna be some pain…

hitta · 01-02-2024, 10:30 PM

I don't believe any of our QBs have shown us what they have. We have the worst OC in the league. An OC can make all the difference in the world for a QB. I won't say anything about any QB until we get an OC that can call plays. Situational awareness issues within the context of a play could be due to how the play is designed read-wise, I am warning you all against reading anything into any QB we have. Like I see people saying Carr missed someone open but it might be one of the last reads in the play scheme. The QB may see someone open along the way but how they view the play is dependent on the OC. Playreads are more technical than people realize. It's like the order of operations or something. Carmichael also sucks so hard in the red zone. I don't care for Winston honestly, but I'm even giving him a pass.

Rugby Saint II · 01-04-2024, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

I know that this will bring the ire of a few posters here but Derek Carr really isn't the Saints biggest problem right now and he's likely better than Winston and Haener. In the next draft the Saints should focus on building from the ground up, so to speak. Work on both lines (especially the O-line) and go from there. I'd even get an LB or RB before thinking about drafting a QB.

Carr's numbers aren't bad -- I know he's got situational awareness issues-- but I think that the Saints can work with him going forward. That and they're married to his contract for a while as well.

Honestly, Carr looked better once he got some protection from the O line. If we solidify the O line through the draft and free agency this offseason he could be just good enough.

Carr was hurt early and often while still playing through the injuries and it had to affect his game. He had a crappy line and a crappy coordinator this year. Give him a better line and a competent aggressive alpha male OC who knows how to scheme to his players strengths.

Like you said, he's here at least next year. I agree about passing on a QB in the draft. For one thing we don't really have the ammo to move up and if we win Sunday we will pick lower in the draft and a few low comp picks isn't enough ammo.

Originally Posted by rezburna

At this point, we have to be realistic and assess the situation based on the way this organization runs. I’m pretty sure Carr will be the QB and Allen will be the coach. Saints have the 13th ranked defense which will save Allen his job, and I’ve started seeing more and more Saints fan make the same excuses for Carr that Raiders fans did for those 9 years of mediocrity. They’re going to run it back and we’ll have to pray for the best. I’m not sure who the offensive coordinator will be, but Ken Dorsey fits the mold of someone I believe Mickey Loomis would like.

The Saints have never fired a coach after two years. DA's got another year to mislead our team.
I like the Dorsey prospect.

Any optimism I had about this organization is currently running close to empty. I see Carr as nothing more than an expensive band aid trying to cover up multiple bullet wounds. I don’t think he’s better than Jameis Winston at anything other than protecting the ball. Andy Dalton could have given us 21 TD’s and 8 picks on a season for a whole lot cheaper, but Carr and his contract is here to stay.

I still feel good about the organization....for now. We are still coming out of a very good record recently with this organization.

This rebuild is going to be messy, and if we aren’t strategic and lucky, very long. Depending on what we do going forward, we could have $96 million in cap space going into 2026. That’s the Arch Manning year. Sounds like a story the NFL script writers might be interested in. Arch comes home to New Orleans to redeem his grandfathers team.

It's all part of the master plan to fold for Arch!

Originally Posted by hitta

I don't believe any of our QBs have shown us what they have. We have the worst OC in the league. An OC can make all the difference in the world for a QB. I won't say anything about any QB until we get an OC that can call plays. Situational awareness issues within the context of a play could be due to how the play is designed read-wise, I am warning you all against reading anything into any QB we have. Like I see people saying Carr missed someone open but it might be one of the last reads in the play scheme. The QB may see someone open along the way but how they view the play is dependent on the OC. Playreads are more technical than people realize. It's like the order of operations or something. Carmichael also sucks so hard in the red zone. I don't care for Winston honestly, but I'm even giving him a pass.

I hope we are heavily researching a young aggressive OC!

hitta · 01-04-2024, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I hope we are heavily researching a young aggressive OC!

As do I. We also need someone who knows how to call plays in the red zone. We don't move the ball horribly between the 20s. It could be much much better, it's below average, but we still accumulate some yardage. It's like once we hit the 30 yd line we start doing go routes and **** that make no sense. It feels like we can't even get a couple of yds. This is how I know there is something wrong more on the OC side than the QB side and why we can't really judge our QBs yet. I've seen Carr play great for Oakland. People pretend like he didn't have some good years, but he did. You have to keep moving the markers in creative ways. It's like the closer to the goal line we get, the lower the IQ of Carmichael gets and it's not too high to begin with.

I'm not sure Dennis Allen has the demeanor to be an HC, but he's got the defense playing well. You can't fault him for that. Dennis Allen is a smart guy. He may be a bit too smart and introverted. He has no energy. You can fault him for team camaraderie, togetherness, preparedness, etc. Still, I think we have a good roster and I believe that if we had a good OC we could compete for a Super Bowl even with Allen.

K Major · 01-03-2024, 09:12 AM

Carr is the epitome of mediocre. Sure, another OC may get more out of him, but he'll never become a top tier QB to get you where you want to be. See his 10 years of production. Pocket presence is still POOR.

Middle of the road NFL QB. Nothing more, nothing less.

Saints would be crazy NOT to draft another QB in 2024.

As for Haener, he'll never get a legit shot in New Orleans while the substitute teacher is still here. His guy will always be DCarr regardless of how poorly he may perform.

Sinner · 01-03-2024, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Carr is the epitome of mediocre. Sure, another OC may get more out of him, but he'll never become a top tier QB to get you where you want to be. See his 10 years of production. Pocket presence is still POOR.

Middle of the road NFL QB. Nothing more, nothing less.

Saints would be crazy NOT to draft another QB in 2024.

As for Haener, he'll never get a legit shot in New Orleans while the substitute teacher is still here. His guy will always be DCarr regardless of how poorly he may perform.

There will be pain.

AsylumGuido · 01-03-2024, 09:52 AM

I keep hearing talk about how the Saints have such an old roster. By average age they were the 2nd oldest entering the season. But their roster was an average of only 15 months older than the 28th oldest, or 5th youngest, team in the league (Colts).

01-02-2024, 04:13 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Haener Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Yeah, me either. If DA was getting fired the front office might want to see what the boys got.....but, alas.....we'll keep doing what we're doing. Which, is struggling to break even with DA leading us for another crappy season in 2024. There isn't another coach in the league that would put in an unproven rookie over a veteran when there is still a shot of making the playoffs. Not a single one. I don't know who's going to be coaching next year, but I'll be pulling for my Saints as I have for the past 56 plus years.

01-02-2024, 05:19 PM	#2
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,335 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Haener I know that this will bring the ire of a few posters here but Derek Carr really isn't the Saints biggest problem right now and he's likely better than Winston and Haener. In the next draft the Saints should focus on building from the ground up, so to speak. Work on both lines (especially the O-line) and go from there. I'd even get an LB or RB before thinking about drafting a QB. Carr's numbers aren't bad -- I know he's got situational awareness issues-- but I think that the Saints can work with him going forward. That and they're married to his contract for a while as well. jnormand, AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.
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01-02-2024, 07:02 PM	#3
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,999	Re: Haener At this point, we have to be realistic and assess the situation based on the way this organization runs. I’m pretty sure Carr will be the QB and Allen will be the coach. Saints have the 13th ranked defense which will save Allen his job, and I’ve started seeing more and more Saints fan make the same excuses for Carr that Raiders fans did for those 9 years of mediocrity. They’re going to run it back and we’ll have to pray for the best. I’m not sure who the offensive coordinator will be, but Ken Dorsey fits the mold of someone I believe Mickey Loomis would like. Any optimism I had about this organization is currently running close to empty. I see Carr as nothing more than an expensive band aid trying to cover up multiple bullet wounds. I don’t think he’s better than Jameis Winston at anything other than protecting the ball. Andy Dalton could have given us 21 TD’s and 8 picks on a season for a whole lot cheaper, but Carr and his contract is here to stay. This rebuild is going to be messy, and if we aren’t strategic and lucky, very long. Depending on what we do going forward, we could have $96 million in cap space going into 2026. That’s the Arch Manning year. Sounds like a story the NFL script writers might be interested in. Arch comes home to New Orleans to redeem his grandfathers team. neugey, Rugby Saint II and Sinner like this.
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01-02-2024, 08:08 PM	#4
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,041	Re: Haener Originally Posted by rezburna At this point, we have to be realistic and assess the situation based on the way this organization runs. I’m pretty sure Carr will be the QB and Allen will be the coach. Saints have the 13th ranked defense which will save Allen his job, and I’ve started seeing more and more Saints fan make the same excuses for Carr that Raiders fans did for those 9 years of mediocrity. They’re going to run it back and we’ll have to pray for the best. I’m not sure who the offensive coordinator will be, but Ken Dorsey fits the mold of someone I believe Mickey Loomis would like. Any optimism I had about this organization is currently running close to empty. I see Carr as nothing more than an expensive band aid trying to cover up multiple bullet wounds. I don’t think he’s better than Jameis Winston at anything other than protecting the ball. Andy Dalton could have given us 21 TD’s and 8 picks on a season for a whole lot cheaper, but Carr and his contract is here to stay. This rebuild is going to be messy, and if we aren’t strategic and lucky, very long. Depending on what we do going forward, we could have $96 million in cap space going into 2026. That’s the Arch Manning year. Sounds like a story the NFL script writers might be interested in. Arch comes home to New Orleans to redeem his grandfathers team. Gonna be some pain…
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,041

01-02-2024, 10:30 PM	#5
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,331	Re: Haener I don't believe any of our QBs have shown us what they have. We have the worst OC in the league. An OC can make all the difference in the world for a QB. I won't say anything about any QB until we get an OC that can call plays. Situational awareness issues within the context of a play could be due to how the play is designed read-wise, I am warning you all against reading anything into any QB we have. Like I see people saying Carr missed someone open but it might be one of the last reads in the play scheme. The QB may see someone open along the way but how they view the play is dependent on the OC. Playreads are more technical than people realize. It's like the order of operations or something. Carmichael also sucks so hard in the red zone. I don't care for Winston honestly, but I'm even giving him a pass. AsylumGuido likes this.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,331

01-04-2024, 04:10 PM	#6
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,117	Re: Haener Originally Posted by iceshack149 I know that this will bring the ire of a few posters here but Derek Carr really isn't the Saints biggest problem right now and he's likely better than Winston and Haener. In the next draft the Saints should focus on building from the ground up, so to speak. Work on both lines (especially the O-line) and go from there. I'd even get an LB or RB before thinking about drafting a QB. Carr's numbers aren't bad -- I know he's got situational awareness issues-- but I think that the Saints can work with him going forward. That and they're married to his contract for a while as well. Honestly, Carr looked better once he got some protection from the O line. If we solidify the O line through the draft and free agency this offseason he could be just good enough. Carr was hurt early and often while still playing through the injuries and it had to affect his game. He had a crappy line and a crappy coordinator this year. Give him a better line and a competent aggressive alpha male OC who knows how to scheme to his players strengths. Like you said, he's here at least next year. I agree about passing on a QB in the draft. For one thing we don't really have the ammo to move up and if we win Sunday we will pick lower in the draft and a few low comp picks isn't enough ammo. Originally Posted by rezburna At this point, we have to be realistic and assess the situation based on the way this organization runs. I’m pretty sure Carr will be the QB and Allen will be the coach. Saints have the 13th ranked defense which will save Allen his job, and I’ve started seeing more and more Saints fan make the same excuses for Carr that Raiders fans did for those 9 years of mediocrity. They’re going to run it back and we’ll have to pray for the best. I’m not sure who the offensive coordinator will be, but Ken Dorsey fits the mold of someone I believe Mickey Loomis would like. The Saints have never fired a coach after two years. DA's got another year to mislead our team. I like the Dorsey prospect. Any optimism I had about this organization is currently running close to empty. I see Carr as nothing more than an expensive band aid trying to cover up multiple bullet wounds. I don’t think he’s better than Jameis Winston at anything other than protecting the ball. Andy Dalton could have given us 21 TD’s and 8 picks on a season for a whole lot cheaper, but Carr and his contract is here to stay. I still feel good about the organization....for now. We are still coming out of a very good record recently with this organization. This rebuild is going to be messy, and if we aren’t strategic and lucky, very long. Depending on what we do going forward, we could have $96 million in cap space going into 2026. That’s the Arch Manning year. Sounds like a story the NFL script writers might be interested in. Arch comes home to New Orleans to redeem his grandfathers team. It's all part of the master plan to fold for Arch! Originally Posted by hitta I don't believe any of our QBs have shown us what they have. We have the worst OC in the league. An OC can make all the difference in the world for a QB. I won't say anything about any QB until we get an OC that can call plays. Situational awareness issues within the context of a play could be due to how the play is designed read-wise, I am warning you all against reading anything into any QB we have. Like I see people saying Carr missed someone open but it might be one of the last reads in the play scheme. The QB may see someone open along the way but how they view the play is dependent on the OC. Playreads are more technical than people realize. It's like the order of operations or something. Carmichael also sucks so hard in the red zone. I don't care for Winston honestly, but I'm even giving him a pass. I hope we are heavily researching a young aggressive OC! iceshack149, jnormand and AsylumGuido like this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

01-04-2024, 08:02 PM	#7
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,331	Re: Haener Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I hope we are heavily researching a young aggressive OC! As do I. We also need someone who knows how to call plays in the red zone. We don't move the ball horribly between the 20s. It could be much much better, it's below average, but we still accumulate some yardage. It's like once we hit the 30 yd line we start doing go routes and **** that make no sense. It feels like we can't even get a couple of yds. This is how I know there is something wrong more on the OC side than the QB side and why we can't really judge our QBs yet. I've seen Carr play great for Oakland. People pretend like he didn't have some good years, but he did. You have to keep moving the markers in creative ways. It's like the closer to the goal line we get, the lower the IQ of Carmichael gets and it's not too high to begin with. I'm not sure Dennis Allen has the demeanor to be an HC, but he's got the defense playing well. You can't fault him for that. Dennis Allen is a smart guy. He may be a bit too smart and introverted. He has no energy. You can fault him for team camaraderie, togetherness, preparedness, etc. Still, I think we have a good roster and I believe that if we had a good OC we could compete for a Super Bowl even with Allen. jnormand, AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,331

01-03-2024, 09:12 AM	#8
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,738 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Haener Carr is the epitome of mediocre. Sure, another OC may get more out of him, but he'll never become a top tier QB to get you where you want to be. See his 10 years of production. Pocket presence is still POOR. Middle of the road NFL QB. Nothing more, nothing less. Saints would be crazy NOT to draft another QB in 2024. As for Haener, he'll never get a legit shot in New Orleans while the substitute teacher is still here. His guy will always be DCarr regardless of how poorly he may perform. saintsfan1976 and Sinner like this.

01-03-2024, 09:16 AM	#9
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,041	Re: Haener Originally Posted by K Major Carr is the epitome of mediocre. Sure, another OC may get more out of him, but he'll never become a top tier QB to get you where you want to be. See his 10 years of production. Pocket presence is still POOR. Middle of the road NFL QB. Nothing more, nothing less. Saints would be crazy NOT to draft another QB in 2024. As for Haener, he'll never get a legit shot in New Orleans while the substitute teacher is still here. His guy will always be DCarr regardless of how poorly he may perform. There will be pain.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,041

01-03-2024, 09:52 AM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Haener I keep hearing talk about how the Saints have such an old roster. By average age they were the 2nd oldest entering the season. But their roster was an average of only 15 months older than the 28th oldest, or 5th youngest, team in the league (Colts). SmashMouth likes this.

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