Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

Somewhere in this bizarro alliteration ^^^ you managed to omit DENNIS ALLEN in the not so grand scheme of things, but the lipstick you keep trying to put on this pig, continues to end up on your Rosie glasses.

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

Speaking to the Shanahan/Kubiak scheme again.

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

This training camp should answer an awful lot of questions that everyone is asking. Like....can Penning improve enough to be a serviceable tackle? Who is the #2 QB? Did the rookies grow enough last years enough to earn more playing time? Who is the slot corner? Can Kubiak really make a difference? etc. etc. etc.

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

I don't believe there is any system that makes offensive line talent irrelevant or greatly devalues it, but there are different approaches to accumulating offensive line talent. I think that when you look closely at the differences in approach what Shannahan is doing now is actually similar to what a young Sean Payton did at the oline position with the 2006-2010-ish Saints. Whether Klint Kubiak learns from a year under Shannahan better than Carmichael learned under his early years with Payton remains to be seen. Ultimately, OC's may not control the draft anyway, and so far the Saints approach to oline in the 2024 offseason has most closely mirrored the Saints approach of recent years, not the approach of the Shannahan 49ers or young Sean Payton Saints.

It's worth noting that the 49ers traded for Trent Williams, a former #4 overall pick, and made him the highest paid oline in league history, while the Saints not only let Terron Armstead walk (I dont mind that with his injury history), but did not replace him in free agency with a proven alternative, they just spent the money on other positions like saving up for Derek Carr and attempted to address his replacement instantly with a splashy draft pick who had no time to develop.

The 2009 New Orleans Saints team that won the Super Bowl had zero 1st round picks on their offensive line, but in 2006-2008 the Saints drafted 5 offensive linemen in 3 years in middle to late rounds, and 3 of 5 started on the Super Bowl team while Strief was the top backup and started later.

From 2019-2023 the Saints never drafted more than 1 offensive lineman per draft. If we exclude 7th round throw away picks, the Saints have not drafted two offensive linemen in the same draft rounds 1-6 any year from 2011-2024, a 14 year run of being one and done at the position in the first 6 rounds, although they picked four 1st round oline in that time being one and done as quick as possible.

Previously the Saints drafted two offensive lineman between rounds 2-6 in 2010, 2007, and 2003, an 8 year period where they only went oline in the 1st round once but doubled up in mid rounds 3 times. Essentially the early Saints model was a shotgun approach on oline to have competition and the late Saints model was an anointment approach to take one high pick who would theoretically solve all their troubles at a position without pesky competition as long as nobody ever got hurt (but then blame bad luck when someone did and not have to take responsibility for lack of depth).

If we compare these two approaches to the 49ers, the 49ers took two or more oline between rounds 2-6 in the 2021, 2022, and 2024 drafts. Since 2019 the 49ers have select 0 oline in round 1, 8 oline in rounds 2-6, and 0 oline in round 7, everything has been mid-round for them. The 49ers approach to oline is not new to the Saints, it would not be new to Pete Carmichael, it is a winning formula the Saints inexplicably abandoned.

Earlier Saints teams had an interesting approach at LT too. They drafted Bushrod while J Brown was still the starter, C Brown while Bushrod was still the starter, Armstead while C brown was the starter, and Peat as an insurance policy while Armstead was the starter. They were proactive. But more recently the Saints have been reactive, drafting Ram when Strief was basically done and not able to start anymore, McCoy when Unger was already gone, Ruiz when Larry Warford was already gone, Penning when Armstead was already gone, and Fuaga when Peat was gone. Every big oline pick for the Saints has been a 'need a starter now' pick while in earlier years the Saints drafted oline for depth and development and longer term succession plans, but sometimes struck gold with a surprise day 1 starter.

The Saints recent approach to oline has been to draft premadonna golden boys in the 1st round and supplement with minimum salary journeymen backups. This has come at the expense of every other possible alternative: mid round oline picks, mid to high level free agents, and trades for valuable oline. If you look at both the modern 49ers and the earlier Saints teams under Payton and Brees, both made use of these other alternatives to bring in high value veterans and foster competition not entitlement.

I would say the 49ers value having a superstar at the most important oline position, LT. At other positions I would say they value depth, competition, and youth more than attempting to buy or draft a 1st round superstar. If the Saints want to follow the model of the 2009 Saints or 2020's 49ers they need to value depth and competition at oline by making more mid-round picks at the position and also bringing in some free agents who are more than just minimum salary journeymen with troubling injury history or bust status.

However, it is not clear the Saints have changed their approach to oline. This offseason they added one high 1st round pick, but other than that they lost 3 starters and replaced with a mid-7th round pick and very low level journeymen free agents paid too little to even effect the comp pick formula. They did not try to find the next Evans, Nicks, Bushrod, or Armstead in the middle rounds. They did not trade for a player like Trent Williams or Max Unger or sign a Larry Warford or Ben Grubbs. They did what the Saints have been doing on oline since about 2020: they went oline in the 1st round on an even numbered year and filled in the blanks with journeyman and undrafted free agents.

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

Salient Points. ^^^

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

Re: Precedents for the Legend of Klint Kubiak
 

That's a fact Jack. :bng:

If it existed, everyone would use it and save tens of millions against their cap.