AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…

AsylumGuido · 06-19-2024, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Two thoughts Rugs

Saint's aren't the ones in the relationship who deserve the description of "criminally".

It's fair to say misused, but not sure he was underused.

Both misused and underused, albeit they can be overlapping in definition.

AsylumGuido · 06-19-2024, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

There are lots of moving parts to this story.

We don't know what AK wants yet. Does he want an extension? More money? More guarantees? How far apart are the Saints and his agent? Who's idea was it to walk out after the walk through that morning? If there was going to be a contract dispute then why didn't he attend the offseason program to familiarize himself with the new scheme?

One more question is whose fault is it that AK has had unproductive seasons under Pete Carmichael? I'm thinking that AK worked just as hard as ever, kept in fantastic shape and was criminally underused by the Saints the last couple of years.

voodooido · 06-19-2024, 10:18 AM

I would like to keep AK but I’m also not against trading him. If we could get a few picks I would pull the trigger. He is not irreplaceable

lee909 · 06-19-2024, 04:35 PM

I wouldn't even extend him on current terms
He is a aging RB who's numbers have dropped each year as his injuries have increased. Its not a position to have a player get old and on a high deal. I don't even agree with 1 high priced extension for a RB. Let them get old on someone else's dime

AsylumGuido · 06-19-2024, 04:59 PM

There is little to no doubt Kamara will get an extension and I'm sure we'll all end up liking the result in this new offense that features backs of his skillset. Any misconceived notion of a sizable drop off in his abilities is not considering the byproduct of Pete Carmichael's total ineptitude at play design and play calling.

Sinner · 06-19-2024, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

There is little to no doubt Kamara will get an extension and I'm sure we'll all end up liking the result in this new offense that features backs of his skillset. Any misconceived notion of a sizable drop off in his abilities is not considering the byproduct of Pete Carmichael's total ineptitude at play design and play calling.

The thing is, while other teams are putting winning packages together (and winning players into position) right about now, we are doing this drama thing that creates yet another wrench in the gears of our perpetual “rebuild” cycle. I’m starting to think that some of y'all are starting to enjoy this sh*t more than championship football. Most of us would rather see our team win.

subguy · 06-20-2024, 05:04 AM

I really like Kamara, but when it comes down to it, my personal feelings for him won't affect my business decisions. I do agree that holding onto him would send a positive message to other players, but in reality, most players prioritize money over loyalty.

In my experience as a leader, I've noticed a significant decrease in employee loyalty over the years. It's hard to say whether it's the employees or the employers who stopped prioritizing loyalty first. Kamara is aware that his time as a player is limited due to the wear and tear on his body. We've seen running backs' value diminish in recent years, which makes it clear that he needs to consider his future carefully as does the organization. Each season we struggle with cap space and go into restructuring hell.

Depending on demands, this may be his last as a Saint.

AsylumGuido · 06-20-2024, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by subguy

I really like Kamara, but when it comes down to it, my personal feelings for him won't affect my business decisions. I do agree that holding onto him would send a positive message to other players, but in reality, most players prioritize money over loyalty.

In my experience as a leader, I've noticed a significant decrease in employee loyalty over the years. It's hard to say whether it's the employees or the employers who stopped prioritizing loyalty first. Kamara is aware that his time as a player is limited due to the wear and tear on his body. We've seen running backs' value diminish in recent years, which makes it clear that he needs to consider his future carefully as does the organization. Each season we struggle with cap space and go into restructuring hell.

Depending on demands, this may be his last as a Saint.

If it is indeed his last as a Saint it will also be his last in the league. He has repeatedly intimated that he wants to play his entire career with the Saints. And given his agent's whole purpose for making this "statement" is to hurry up and get that extension it doesn't make sense that he'd retire after this season.

As for money over loyalty, I have been hearing that the market for Kamara would be far less than what the Saints are already willing to pay for his extension.

SmashMouth · 06-20-2024, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Sinner

The thing is, while other teams are putting winning packages together (and winning players into position) right about now, we are doing this drama thing that creates yet another wrench in the gears of our perpetual “rebuild” cycle. I’m starting to think that some of y'all are starting to enjoy this sh*t more than championship football. Most of us would rather see our team win.

Originally Posted by subguy

I really like Kamara, but when it comes down to it, my personal feelings for him won't affect my business decisions. I do agree that holding onto him would send a positive message to other players, but in reality, most players prioritize money over loyalty.

In my experience as a leader, I've noticed a significant decrease in employee loyalty over the years. It's hard to say whether it's the employees or the employers who stopped prioritizing loyalty first. Kamara is aware that his time as a player is limited due to the wear and tear on his body. We've seen running backs' value diminish in recent years, which makes it clear that he needs to consider his future carefully as does the organization. Each season we struggle with cap space and go into restructuring hell.

Depending on demands, this may be his last as a Saint.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If it is indeed his last as a Saint it will also be his last in the league. He has repeatedly intimated that he wants to play his entire career with the Saints. And given his agent's whole purpose for making this "statement" is to hurry up and get that extension it doesn't make sense that he'd retire after this season.

As for money over loyalty, I have been hearing that the market for Kamara would be far less than what the Saints are already willing to pay for his extension.

Saints aren't paying his voidable $25 million year next year.

BakoSaint · 06-24-2024, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If it is indeed his last as a Saint it will also be his last in the league. He has repeatedly intimated that he wants to play his entire career with the Saints. And given his agent's whole purpose for making this "statement" is to hurry up and get that extension it doesn't make sense that he'd retire after this season.

As for money over loyalty, I have been hearing that the market for Kamara would be far less than what the Saints are already willing to pay for his extension.

I think you are taking the PR at face value too much. What a player, their agent, or the team says in negotiations may often just be a negotiating tactic. Some players really do want to play their entire career with one franchise, others want to go where they can win, and others want to follow the money. In negotiations where a players demands are not being met, but outside demand is also soft, it can be a good negotiating tactic to emphasize loyalty and legacy with the home team, to try to drum up public support for an extension and convince the team to offer a little more based on fans contagious optimism. Fans often want to see defectors fail and loyal players succeed, so when a player broadcasts their supposed loyalty, fan expectations can rise.

I have no doubt there are legitimately loyal players. And also, there are players who don't like moving and like their home team but are also greedy for contract numbers their performance makes hard to justify.

Last season, Cam Jordan played the same tune about wanting to retire a Saint and how loyal he was, then talked the team into an unnecessary extension with big guarantees just as he was aging into decline, and the Saints ended up in 2024 paying $14 million for a player coming off 2 sacks who will supposedly get healthier as they age and never again twist and ankle wrestling 350lb men. This offseason Jordan restructured, but didn't take any pay cut despite greatly diminished performance, while many teammates did. Jordan may love the Saints, but ultimately he is going to cash out every dollar he can, even as his performance declines, despite the strains that may put the team under. He is loyal to .500. You will never see and apology for letting fans down, only business is business.

In light of this, and rumors the Saints are already offering Kamara above market when players like Davis took below market deals coming off better years, I think the reality is that Kamara is probably all business here and looking to back up the Brinks truck in Metairie. He might prefer to retire a Saint, or he might be just as well to go to the Jets if they write a big check, but right now given that his last 2 years performances are not setting the world on fire, I think the loyalty and legacy card is just a negotiating tactic.

Kamara is under contract. We have a younger backup. No sane 29 year old running back is walking away from almost $12 million. It is virtually impossible that Kamara could put up a performance in 2024 that would lead other teams to bid more than $12 million a year on a 30 year old RB, as McCaffery only had that value to the 49ers for being already proven in their system that was already in Super Bowl contention. Even if Kamara bounces back, he still turns 30, and there are major limits to have far he can bounce back with an oline that, even if improved and serviceable, is very very unlikely to be elite.

Essentially the only way Kamara can outplay his $12 million salary is if he is the best or tied for best RB in the league in 2024. That is very unlikely. If that happens, he is under contract for $25 million in 2025 and the Saints could hold onto him until post-june-1 working on extension.

We lose nothing by taking a wait and see approach to Kamara during 2024. If he was truly loyal he would not mind playing on a year to year basis as a 29yo RB who has seen many of his contemporaries doing the same. If he was truly loyal he would not be demanding a contract that pays more than his recent performance justifies and demanding the team pay for hopes and what ifs. He is a businessman. We need to be businessmen too.

06-19-2024, 05:01 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,666	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… Originally Posted by Boston Saint Two thoughts Rugs Saint's aren't the ones in the relationship who deserve the description of "criminally". It's fair to say misused, but not sure he was underused. Both misused and underused, albeit they can be overlapping in definition.

06-19-2024, 05:03 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,666	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II There are lots of moving parts to this story. We don't know what AK wants yet. Does he want an extension? More money? More guarantees? How far apart are the Saints and his agent? Who's idea was it to walk out after the walk through that morning? If there was going to be a contract dispute then why didn't he attend the offseason program to familiarize himself with the new scheme? One more question is whose fault is it that AK has had unproductive seasons under Pete Carmichael? I'm thinking that AK worked just as hard as ever, kept in fantastic shape and was criminally underused by the Saints the last couple of years.

06-19-2024, 10:18 AM	#3
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,842	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… I would like to keep AK but I’m also not against trading him. If we could get a few picks I would pull the trigger. He is not irreplaceable
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,842

06-19-2024, 04:35 PM	#4
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… I wouldn't even extend him on current terms He is a aging RB who's numbers have dropped each year as his injuries have increased. Its not a position to have a player get old and on a high deal. I don't even agree with 1 high priced extension for a RB. Let them get old on someone else's dime

06-19-2024, 04:59 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,666	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… There is little to no doubt Kamara will get an extension and I'm sure we'll all end up liking the result in this new offense that features backs of his skillset. Any misconceived notion of a sizable drop off in his abilities is not considering the byproduct of Pete Carmichael's total ineptitude at play design and play calling. saintsfan1976 likes this.

06-19-2024, 05:33 PM	#6
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,071	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… Originally Posted by AsylumGuido There is little to no doubt Kamara will get an extension and I'm sure we'll all end up liking the result in this new offense that features backs of his skillset. Any misconceived notion of a sizable drop off in his abilities is not considering the byproduct of Pete Carmichael's total ineptitude at play design and play calling. The thing is, while other teams are putting winning packages together (and winning players into position) right about now, we are doing this drama thing that creates yet another wrench in the gears of our perpetual “rebuild” cycle. I’m starting to think that some of y'all are starting to enjoy this sh*t more than championship football. Most of us would rather see our team win.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,071	Last edited by Sinner; 06-19-2024 at 07:47 PM..

06-20-2024, 05:04 AM	#7
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,104	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… I really like Kamara, but when it comes down to it, my personal feelings for him won't affect my business decisions. I do agree that holding onto him would send a positive message to other players, but in reality, most players prioritize money over loyalty. In my experience as a leader, I've noticed a significant decrease in employee loyalty over the years. It's hard to say whether it's the employees or the employers who stopped prioritizing loyalty first. Kamara is aware that his time as a player is limited due to the wear and tear on his body. We've seen running backs' value diminish in recent years, which makes it clear that he needs to consider his future carefully as does the organization. Each season we struggle with cap space and go into restructuring hell. Depending on demands, this may be his last as a Saint. Boston Saint likes this.
	Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.

06-20-2024, 07:58 AM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,666	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… Originally Posted by subguy I really like Kamara, but when it comes down to it, my personal feelings for him won't affect my business decisions. I do agree that holding onto him would send a positive message to other players, but in reality, most players prioritize money over loyalty. In my experience as a leader, I've noticed a significant decrease in employee loyalty over the years. It's hard to say whether it's the employees or the employers who stopped prioritizing loyalty first. Kamara is aware that his time as a player is limited due to the wear and tear on his body. We've seen running backs' value diminish in recent years, which makes it clear that he needs to consider his future carefully as does the organization. Each season we struggle with cap space and go into restructuring hell. Depending on demands, this may be his last as a Saint. If it is indeed his last as a Saint it will also be his last in the league. He has repeatedly intimated that he wants to play his entire career with the Saints. And given his agent's whole purpose for making this "statement" is to hurry up and get that extension it doesn't make sense that he'd retire after this season. As for money over loyalty, I have been hearing that the market for Kamara would be far less than what the Saints are already willing to pay for his extension.

06-20-2024, 08:05 AM	#9
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,899 Blog Entries: 29	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… Originally Posted by Sinner The thing is, while other teams are putting winning packages together (and winning players into position) right about now, we are doing this drama thing that creates yet another wrench in the gears of our perpetual “rebuild” cycle. I’m starting to think that some of y'all are starting to enjoy this sht more than championship football. Most of us would rather see our team win. Originally Posted by subguy* I really like Kamara, but when it comes down to it, my personal feelings for him won't affect my business decisions. I do agree that holding onto him would send a positive message to other players, but in reality, most players prioritize money over loyalty. In my experience as a leader, I've noticed a significant decrease in employee loyalty over the years. It's hard to say whether it's the employees or the employers who stopped prioritizing loyalty first. Kamara is aware that his time as a player is limited due to the wear and tear on his body. We've seen running backs' value diminish in recent years, which makes it clear that he needs to consider his future carefully as does the organization. Each season we struggle with cap space and go into restructuring hell. Depending on demands, this may be his last as a Saint. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If it is indeed his last as a Saint it will also be his last in the league. He has repeatedly intimated that he wants to play his entire career with the Saints. And given his agent's whole purpose for making this "statement" is to hurry up and get that extension it doesn't make sense that he'd retire after this season. As for money over loyalty, I have been hearing that the market for Kamara would be far less than what the Saints are already willing to pay for his extension. Saints aren't paying his voidable $25 million year next year.

06-24-2024, 11:04 AM	#10
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400	Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF… Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If it is indeed his last as a Saint it will also be his last in the league. He has repeatedly intimated that he wants to play his entire career with the Saints. And given his agent's whole purpose for making this "statement" is to hurry up and get that extension it doesn't make sense that he'd retire after this season. As for money over loyalty, I have been hearing that the market for Kamara would be far less than what the Saints are already willing to pay for his extension. I think you are taking the PR at face value too much. What a player, their agent, or the team says in negotiations may often just be a negotiating tactic. Some players really do want to play their entire career with one franchise, others want to go where they can win, and others want to follow the money. In negotiations where a players demands are not being met, but outside demand is also soft, it can be a good negotiating tactic to emphasize loyalty and legacy with the home team, to try to drum up public support for an extension and convince the team to offer a little more based on fans contagious optimism. Fans often want to see defectors fail and loyal players succeed, so when a player broadcasts their supposed loyalty, fan expectations can rise. I have no doubt there are legitimately loyal players. And also, there are players who don't like moving and like their home team but are also greedy for contract numbers their performance makes hard to justify. Last season, Cam Jordan played the same tune about wanting to retire a Saint and how loyal he was, then talked the team into an unnecessary extension with big guarantees just as he was aging into decline, and the Saints ended up in 2024 paying $14 million for a player coming off 2 sacks who will supposedly get healthier as they age and never again twist and ankle wrestling 350lb men. This offseason Jordan restructured, but didn't take any pay cut despite greatly diminished performance, while many teammates did. Jordan may love the Saints, but ultimately he is going to cash out every dollar he can, even as his performance declines, despite the strains that may put the team under. He is loyal to .500. You will never see and apology for letting fans down, only business is business. In light of this, and rumors the Saints are already offering Kamara above market when players like Davis took below market deals coming off better years, I think the reality is that Kamara is probably all business here and looking to back up the Brinks truck in Metairie. He might prefer to retire a Saint, or he might be just as well to go to the Jets if they write a big check, but right now given that his last 2 years performances are not setting the world on fire, I think the loyalty and legacy card is just a negotiating tactic. Kamara is under contract. We have a younger backup. No sane 29 year old running back is walking away from almost $12 million. It is virtually impossible that Kamara could put up a performance in 2024 that would lead other teams to bid more than $12 million a year on a 30 year old RB, as McCaffery only had that value to the 49ers for being already proven in their system that was already in Super Bowl contention. Even if Kamara bounces back, he still turns 30, and there are major limits to have far he can bounce back with an oline that, even if improved and serviceable, is very very unlikely to be elite. Essentially the only way Kamara can outplay his $12 million salary is if he is the best or tied for best RB in the league in 2024. That is very unlikely. If that happens, he is under contract for $25 million in 2025 and the Saints could hold onto him until post-june-1 working on extension. We lose nothing by taking a wait and see approach to Kamara during 2024. If he was truly loyal he would not mind playing on a year to year basis as a 29yo RB who has seen many of his contemporaries doing the same. If he was truly loyal he would not be demanding a contract that pays more than his recent performance justifies and demanding the team pay for hopes and what ifs. He is a businessman. We need to be businessmen too.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400