SaintFanInATLHELL

I feel you pain being in such a tough situation.

First and foremost your family needs you here. You have to know that even if you were out on the street penniless that your wife and daughter would want to be with you. You have to find a way to stay strong for them. They need you and you need them. If you believe nothing else believe that.

We are proud that you didn't give in to the bottle. Keep that strength and use it to get through this.

If you can find the energy, you should take the advice to find someone to talk to. Sometimes just getting a different perspective from a cooler head can be enough to get back on track.

As for the interview Monday, I suggest taking it. I know all the closed doors are frustrating. But it only takes one open door to move forward.

Now given that let's get to work solving some of your listed problems.

You gave two specific items on your list: College loans and the dead tree. This is a financial emergency. Neither of those items are important in the face of the current situation. Many of us feel that we must take care of all our bills at all cost. But right now, you have to put a pin on that loan. You must have shelter before you can move forward with anything else. As you have pointed out, that loan will still be there when you get back to it.

Same with the tree. Until the local government puts a notice on your door condemning the house for the tree, leave it alone.

If you wish to share, a few pieces of information would be helpful. First is what general area are you located? It may be possible for one of us to come out and try to help. Next is what type of business do you work in, and what type of startup do you have? One of the places one of us may be able to help is with networking opportunities, which are often used to move folks forward.

For the short term would you consider setting up/accepting a GoFundMe? That would give anyone where who wants to help an opportunity to contribute. And again that could be an additional networking opportunity.

If you have the time, we do live in a gig economy. Many folks close the gap by picking up gigs to make extra funds. Even if it's temporary, it may help getting through this.

You are not out of moves. Not by a long shot. I know it took great courage to come and talk about your situation. Many would not have done it.

We are all here to help. Continue to reach out. Collectively we can help get you through this.

SFIAH

Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO

Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

Cruize

Sorry for your troubles Brother. Money and things can be enjoyed. They can also be let go. Not what's important. The only thing you can ever do wrong in life is quit. That's the only way you could ever disappoint your Wife and Daughter. Absolutely please talk to someone professional. Asking for help is the action of a strong, brave man. This world needs you. You are loved.

neugey

Thanks everyone for your replies and encouragement. It means a lot.

The tree contractor is coming out next week to do the work. It'll go on the credit card like everything else. The way the city works, they have a deadline of October 7 on which date they would remove the tree and give me the bill.

Writing this spurred me to call Nelnet (student loan contractor). After going through a giant call tree, I asked the agent if they would prefer a $50/month payment or eliminating my debt via suicide. This got the agent to work with me and he gave me one year's forbearance and then $300-$400 payment after that. Doing this probably has put on some government watchlist, increased IRS audit chances, etc. I imagine I have zero chance of ever working or contracting for the government (assuming I'd even want to). Whatever - will deal with that later. Just hope it doesn't come back to haunt me - like many of my decisions do.

I'm not at the point of a GoFundMe or anything. I don't want to be someone else's burden like that - ever. It's just my financial situation is like the Saints salary cap management - on steroids. I just know it won't be sustainable for too much longer and I don't have Harley working for me.

When it was apparent in early June that the startup wouldn't be generating money/supplemental income and I started looking for a better paying job, and came to accept how badly my current employer is underpaying me, I set out to find a better paying job even if it kills me. And I say that last part without exaggeration, and still feel this way.

Last night I was also contemplating what I could do to earn money illegally ... hacking, stealing/selling information, somehow siphoning money, etc. Ultimately, I don't think I could handle that stress, so that's off the table. Is this a morally bankrupt thing to ponder? Probably. But something broke in my soul this week. I think of other people who have killed themselves and I see more dignity, valor in what they did. No longer viewing them as a coward, quitter, etc. Seeing moreso that some people are just destined for that kind of demise. Maybe 1 in every 1000 people. I feel like there's a chance I'm a 1/1000 type and I've defied the odds just to get this far. Thus my reluctance to keep going.

Another stress point is my job. Not necessarily overworked, but we're badly understaffed. Too much turnover in the company. A company of 50 that seems to think and act like we have 500 people. A year or so ago we finally got some venture capital and I have no earthly idea where the money has gone. We've now had a Chief Growth Officer and the company isn't growing in the least - except maybe some new clients. Like I was describing to my dad some time ago, the analogy is taking a Division II football team and putting them in the Big Ten. It don't matter how hard much effort goes in, it's just a recipe for failure. So in addition to being underpaid, I am worried the job will hit the wall and start laying off people in the next few years. The culture of the company definitely changed since I started - we're expected to bear bigger/new burdens and ask 0 questions. My boss is a great guy, but he can be kind of a perfectionist whereas I tend to be pragmatic and situational, so we sometimes butt heads in subtle ways.

I will probably call the 988 number if I get into too dark of a place. Which could come into play if I get more job rejections in the next few weeks. At my age, I get passed over like a fricking communion plate. The 988 number just feels so weird. Like, when I hear it from Guido, I think maybe he's right. But when I see Google recommend it, I feel the opposite. That company is so rotten and soulless. I can say with certainty no leadership in that organization gives a flying poo if some middle-aged twat like myself ends himself. If they could make $10 per suicide they'd probably put it at the top of their search results and generate ads for it. Anyone who has experience with an online startup knows what I'm saying about Google. That company has become a dystopian disaster.

This weekend, I'm going to try to get away from my computer more often and watch more college football downstairs. Work on a puzzle, dumb as it sounds it's something to do. I don't think I can apply for anymore jobs for awhile. Especially not cover-letter writing. Each letter feels like it wrecks my mental health. Half the jobs out there are fake listings, and even among those there are many companies that are "fake-hiring". They put the job listing out there to demonstrate growth and give their shareholders a boner. This is how the game is played now if you don't already know. And if you want to see what that can lead to ... well, here I am.

frydaddy

Man, just to echo what so many others here have already said.. Proud of you for coming forward and sharing this with us. As men in particular, it can be extremely difficult for us to admit that we're struggling, so thank you for being a good example in that respect.

I've been in a very similar situation to yours. Wife and kids, barely staying afloat financially, and it seemed like everywhere I turned there was another crisis, another expense. The thought that my family would be better off without me, not just financially, but also by not having to put up with my depression anymore, crossed my mind many times. I even made a couple of half hearted attempts at ending it, but thankfully wasn't able to see it through. I felt like there was no hope to be found. Coincidentally, my journey back from that started with a post I made in this forum as well. I was in such a desperate financial state that I started a gofundme and posted the link here asking for help. It didn't raise much money, but a few of the good folks here reached out to me privately to express their support and concern, and it was just enough of a light in my darkness to make me realize that things were perhaps not as bad as I thought. My financial situation didn't improve immediately or anything, but we managed somehow, and it gradually got better. I learned how to open up to my wife and let her help me through the depression. Today, I'm still far from being a rich man, but I'm happy. Difficult situations still arise, but my perspective is totally different. I hope that the words of encouragement from so many here do the same thing for you. We may not all know each other on a deeply personal level, but there's genuine care and concern for one another, especially when someone is going through a tough time. We're here for you buddy. You'll be in my prayers going forward. Feel free to reach out if you want or need to talk. I look forward to hearing that things have improved, because as long as you're still breathing, things will get better.

Mais forte do que a morte

Rugby Saint II

Tough times make tough people. Now, suck it up and get back out there! I'm serious! That is how you get out from under heavy thoughts. Refuse to accept them and embrace the challenge.

Maybe this new offense will be worth watching for a change and it will give you something good to take your mind off your problems which will go away with time. DA's defense looks really good again. We might have a complete team and only the Saints knew it to start the season. Now, every team is on high alert after our week one performance.

No matter how bad life looks there is always a sunrise for every sunset. Remember, for every action there is an opposite and reaction. Life was meant to be challenging. It brings out the best in us.

I look forward to reading your posts for years.

4everSaint

Sent my number if you want to call.

Check back in with us. You don't have to say much. Just let us know you are here.

jcp026

I don't know the last time I posted on here, but I do hope things get better for you.

BakoSaint

I am not a great emotion in words guy so I will stick to some logic.

The stuff you say about FAFSA is a little off I think and I think the kind of loan you have is federally guaranteed, so as I will go into in the next paragraph the bank might defer it forever if you keep calling every year and have nothing to lose. Fafsa is more of a general application and then the student may be offered all different sorts of grants, loans to the student, or as a third option loans that involve the parents cosigning or taking out the loan themselves. Those things have different names such as Pell Grants, Stafford Loans, Direct Plus Loans, and a bunch of other names I forget. It sounds like maybe you took out a Direct Plus Parent loan which is somewhere way down on the list of the last things the Fafsa would offer when you run out of grants and unsubsidized loans or dont qualify and the student doesnt want all the loans in their name. I would not scare poor young students away from the Fafsa if they have a good earning major and will be able to pay down loans because they will likely get Pell Grants and Stafford Loans that come with generous terms to defer payment until their income improves. In your case if you took out a Direct Plus Parent Loan I dont think that follows the student anyway, so assuming you make more than $1000 a month, you are paying other bills too, so even if that bill got eliminated your death would just shift other bills to family.

Federal Direct Plus Parent loans are guaranteed by the federal government. What that means is that if you pass away one day short of your 100th birthday having deferred and deferred payment on those loans with circumstance after circumstance, I believe the feds will pay back the bank in full with interest. Strategically what this means for you is that this bank is not in the position of a normal debt collector. They have to send bills and make calls and make reports, go through the motions, but if they can check a box that lets you reduce payments or defer, they have nothing to lose by checking that box, there is no risk to them that if they dont get you to hurry up and pay they will be left empty handed when you go on social security or pass away. They may only be able to defer for a year, because hey what if you did get that job that paid 70% more, they have to sort of try to collect, but they may just be going through the motions. So, as long as you have financial hardship, you may be able to call them every year and defer payments forever. And its probably in your best interests to always pay your mortgage and credit cards first. The student loan banks just probably dont have so much incentive to come after you.

Stuff doesn't matter much. If you have to live in an apartment it might actually be a blessing, sometimes living so close to many other people gives you more community and activities to do. You might have a pool. People who hang out at the pool might like to watch the game. Don't worry about where you will put stuff. You can give it to family if they want it or toss it if they don't. Nobody lives forever so thats what will happen to the stuff anyway eventually. If downsizing would be the solution to solve some of your problems in life, you should not rule out downsizing in order to avoid having to give away stuff, because clearly without you your wife would have to downsize and get rid of the stuff, so sacrificing yourself to save the stuff would not work. Save old family photos and such, but most knick knacks, collectibles, momentos, furniture and electronics that were expensive a long time ago new, etc are not worth worrying about. You can remember memories without your little league glove and you can buy another used table later for the 10% of its original price your used table is worth now, it doesnt matter if it cost thousands new since its not new anymore. You can take pictures of stuff to remember it by. We live in a time which giant flat screens are $200 at Walmart. Don't let your stuff own you. Jim Harbaugh is living in RV right now and nobody has it better.

Dying would disappoint your wife more than moving for numerous reasons. Loved ones dying is very depressing, they live with a 'what if' forever. Downsizing isn't always fun, but if you died she would need to downsize more having less family income, deal with all your stuff alone during the downsizing, grieve, and deal with your childrens grief. If you killed yourself while paying $1000/mo to your daughters loans, your daughter might likely feel responsible for your death, which could ruin her life. Your daughter would not likely think 'yay I am free of those loans, what a happy ending.'

The concept of failure is a construct. You are not a failure unless you think of yourself as a failure. Everyone goes through ups and down. Sean Payton had some great seasons, then went 7-9 a bunch of seasons, then had some more great seasons, and will probably go 7-9 this year, and eventually will retire from coaching, probably without another ring. Mike Ditka was a hall of fame player and coach but clearly was not the coach he once was in his second act, but still he enjoyed life. Michael Jordan did not retire on top, he retired unable to make the Wizards winners, and then failing as a GM. Maybe your best financial years are ahead of you, maybe they are behind you, but that doesn't mean you failed. People are not supposed to just keep winning and winning and winning and making more and more money and having big successes their whole life as if they are perfect gods, they are supposed to vary. Einstein's best work was in his 20's I believe, yet he carried on. As long as you keep fighting, you can think of yourself as a fighter. And if you are tired of fighting to make the most money, you can fight to live simply and humbly and spend more meaningful time with your loved ones. If you are in your 50's soon you will be in your 60's and eventually get social security as will your wife. Perhaps your qualify for some retirement plan. There are places with low cost of living you could live. And then its fun to just watch some tv, watch some sporting events, enjoy the outdoors, spend time with your immediate family, extended family, friends, just shooting the ****, watching a game, eating a hot dog, and drinking a coke.

My dad spent a large portion of his life chasing the next big thing with startups and deals that never came through like hoped. His dad did the same. I saw a reference in an old family letter that his dads dad also left the family at times to chase his fortune that never came through. I took a pay cut and moved to a smaller home to go to a job with more balance and job security in a cooler community. In the end, money is not everything.

I don't know your whole situation but you have at least a wife and daughter. It sounds like your daughter was in college. I dont know how much family you have, but you have some, maybe a lot, and maybe down the road you will have more. Maybe you are on the outs with some of them, but that stuff often heals over time, and I am sure they value their future with you. We all need family, we need people close, sometimes when one family member becomes more distant we rely on another, and losing a close family member is one less person to spend time with, confide in, rely upon, etc so nobody wants to lose a close family member. None of them would be better without you. You are not a burden. Losing you would be an emotional, financial, and logistical burden and a shock that could send them on a downward spiral. You are relied upon, not to definitely always succeed because nobody can do that, but relied on to be on their side, to be there when they need you, so they won't be alone.

You are only the 1/1000 person you think of yourself as. Be the 1/1000 steadfast in doing your best for your family person. Don't succumb to a self fulfilling prophecy of doom. If you worry about anything too much it will come true. Its more valuable to have a family member who does everything they can for you even if its not a lot and its hard than a family member who does everything for you and makes it look easy, because if its so easy who knows if they really care. Be the one who works hard not the one who guarantees easy success.

I don't think the government is putting you on any cross referenced lists from a phone conversation with a minimum wage phone rep at a bank. The government is bad at software. Nobody is turning down Apple and Microsoft and Google to write amazing software for the government that bans people who tell banks about medical issues from getting hired by government HR. The people working in government HR would be in corporate HR if they wanted to worry that much. Probably government hiring is infinitely entangled in the ADA and stuff and it could be harder for them to not hire you if you have a medical condition and are older. Applying for jobs is a pain though, I agree on that, lots of work 99% for nothing. But your job and pay check and the size of your house dont define you, being there consistently defines you.

neugey

Thanks Bako. You are correct on it being a Parent Plus Loan ... I was oversimplifying in calling it FAFSA.

I'm in a weird spot. I don't really feel like watching football. The commercials irritate me more than usual, just don't have the patience for them. It does feel good to shoot some pool by myself. I just can't break the balls because I'm too out of sorts right now so I just hit around.

I might try to contact/call my cousin for support. He's the cousin I feel closest to, but I haven't been in contact with him since he got out of jail last year. So maybe I feel if there's things I can say that could help him as he continues to rebound and maybe that would feel as good as the support he could give me.

FinSaint

I won't for a second pretend to know or comprehend all that you're going through and all of the obstacles you have to overcome. Nevertheless, from the bottom of my heart I encourage you to just keep on fighting and never give up!