DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD

BakoSaint · 04-25-2025, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by frydaddy

You can be coached on taking hits better, you can take calcium supplements to improve your levels. I just don't see it as being as big of a deal as you do. The greatest player to ever wear a Saints jersey..hell, one of the greatest to wear any jersey..came to us a year after suffering a near catastrophic injury and went on to a hall of fame career. Would I prefer he had no injury history? Sure. But he's still the most pro ready QB in this class. I'm not even out here trying to say he's going to be any good, but to knock him for his past injuries is silly.

Its cool that Shough has a size and arm talent, but to ignore his injury history and call him the most pro ready is silly. Shadeur Sanders has a similar number of attempts, more TDs, and less INTs at the D1 level. The same number of reps with more TDs and less INTs tells me Sanders is more pro ready. Shough is just big and old.

I am not sure a 26 year old rookie has ever had a successful NFL career? Is there precedent? Warren Moon was older but he played 4 years in the CFL first and won the grey cup every year. There have been a few great 6'1-ish QBs who didnt run. I can't find any successful QB who came out of college at 26. So not only does Shough have to turn from glass to steel, he then has to not be steel Chris Weinke or steel Brandon Weeden.

frydaddy · 04-25-2025, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Its cool that Shough has a size and arm talent, but to ignore his injury history and call him the most pro ready is silly. Shadeur Sanders has a similar number of attempts, more TDs, and less INTs at the D1 level. The same number of reps with more TDs and less INTs tells me Sanders is more pro ready. Shough is just big and old.

I am not sure a 26 year old rookie has ever had a successful NFL career? Is there precedent? Warren Moon was older but he played 4 years in the CFL first and won the grey cup every year. There have been a few great 6'1-ish QBs who didnt run. I can't find any successful QB who came out of college at 26. So not only does Shough have to turn from glass to steel, he then has to not be steel Chris Weinke or steel Brandon Weeden.

He played in a pro style system where he was asked to make reads and throws that no other QB in this class did. He has better size, speed and arm strength than Shedeur.

Again, I'm not ready to anoint him the starter or even say he'll ever be good, but I think that's true of every QB in this years draft. The whole league passed on Shedeur in the 1st. The browns, who are every but as QB desperate as us had 2 chances to take Shedeur, and yes, Shough too, and passed on both. The Saints obviously believe in the guy. Only time will tell if they're right

SmashMouth · 04-26-2025, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Its cool that Shough has a size and arm talent, but to ignore his injury history and call him the most pro ready is silly. Shadeur Sanders has a similar number of attempts, more TDs, and less INTs at the D1 level. The same number of reps with more TDs and less INTs tells me Sanders is more pro ready. Shough is just big and old.

I am not sure a 26 year old rookie has ever had a successful NFL career? Is there precedent? Warren Moon was older but he played 4 years in the CFL first and won the grey cup every year. There have been a few great 6'1-ish QBs who didnt run. I can't find any successful QB who came out of college at 26. So not only does Shough have to turn from glass to steel, he then has to not be steel Chris Weinke or steel Brandon Weeden.

Kurt Warner and Russell Wilson ? There's prolly more...

TheOak · 04-26-2025, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Kurt Warner and Russell Wilson ? There's prolly more...

While not 26 Michael “Beerman” Lewis at the age of 30 should fit the criteria.

Starbauch was 27

A lot of age for a QB depends on what we are looking for. If we want someone like a Rothlesburger* or Newton that will get the sh1t beat out of them, then body age matters. If we are looking for a Brees where decision making matters the pre-frontal cortex (responsible for executive function) generally doesn’t reach full maturation till mid to late 20s (25-30).

Executive function= Task prioritization, decision making. When not functioning properly, it is what makes some people seem lazy.

BakoSaint · 04-26-2025, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

While not 26 Michael “Beerman” Lewis at the age of 30 should fit the criteria.

Starbauch was 27

The problem about Shough that isn't an issue with these other examples is that he is being drafted based on the tape he put in at 25yo playing against 20yo kids.

Michael Lewis doesn't count because he was just a role player. His career wouldn't justify a #40 overall pick. Had Lewis been drafted #40 overall based on the tape he could put up at 29 against college kids, that would obviously have been a mistake.

Staubach was drafted based on what he did in college up to age 21, at the time they allowed redshirt juniors to be drafted and still play their senior year. He was drafted at 22 based on his play at 21, then played another year of college, 4 years in the military, and was a rookie at 27.

Kurt Warner was an UDFA at 23yo who didn't make the team, then played 3 years in the Arena league against men his own age, improved his skills, and made the best of another shot in the NFL. He proved his worth against players his age.

Warren Moon was a similar situation with the CFL.

Russell Wilson was 23yo as NFL rookie, and was drafted in the 3rd round. He also played 4 full seasons in college and won the starting job every season except his redshirt year.

Shough is more like Weinke or Weeden. Its not that he cannot succeed. I hope he succeeds. Its that you can't totally believe what you see on tape versus kids who are 5 years younger than him. We have to get lucky. There is no tape of Shough looking like an NFL QB against players his age, the last time he faced players his age he looked mediocre. I would feel better about Shough if he had declared for the draft 3 years ago, gone undrafted, went to the CFL or XFL, etc, won rings there, and we won a bidding war for his NFL services. Sam Darnold is only 21 months older than Shough.

SmashMouth · 04-26-2025, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

The problem about Shough that isn't an issue with these other examples is that he is being drafted based on the tape he put in at 25yo playing against 20yo kids.

Michael Lewis doesn't count because he was just a role player. His career wouldn't justify a #40 overall pick. Had Lewis been drafted #40 overall based on the tape he could put up at 29 against college kids, that would obviously have been a mistake.

Staubach was drafted based on what he did in college up to age 21, at the time they allowed redshirt juniors to be drafted and still play their senior year. He was drafted at 22 based on his play at 21, then played another year of college, 4 years in the military, and was a rookie at 27.

Kurt Warner was an UDFA at 23yo who didn't make the team, then played 3 years in the Arena league against men his own age, improved his skills, and made the best of another shot in the NFL. He proved his worth against players his age.

Warren Moon was a similar situation with the CFL.

Russell Wilson was 23yo as NFL rookie, and was drafted in the 3rd round. He also played 4 full seasons in college and won the starting job every season except his redshirt year.

Shough is more like Weinke or Weeden. Its not that he cannot succeed. I hope he succeeds. Its that you can't totally believe what you see on tape versus kids who are 5 years younger than him. We have to get lucky. There is no tape of Shough looking like an NFL QB against players his age, the last time he faced players his age he looked mediocre. I would feel better about Shough if he had declared for the draft 3 years ago, gone undrafted, went to the CFL or XFL, etc, won rings there, and we won a bidding war for his NFL services. Sam Darnold is only 21 months older than Shough.

The Louisville tape all year showed enough for most, against way better competition than what Colorado faced.

TheOak · 04-27-2025, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Michael Lewis doesn't count because…

This is why I replied to Smash. You have a propensity to make a general statement, then start moving goalposts. This isn’t a debate, if you chose to not recognize that someone fits into your original requirement that is on you.

SmashMouth · 04-27-2025, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Michael Lewis doesn't count because…

Originally Posted by TheOak

This is why I replied to Smash. You have a propensity to make a general statement, then start moving goalposts. This isn’t a debate, if you chose to not recognize that someone fits into your original requirement that is on you.

I am not Bako, Oakie.... Have more coffee this morning and let's enjoy what this new regime has accomplished with this draft. It appears to be a real good one.

04-25-2025, 08:00 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,415	Re: DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD Originally Posted by frydaddy You can be coached on taking hits better, you can take calcium supplements to improve your levels. I just don't see it as being as big of a deal as you do. The greatest player to ever wear a Saints jersey..hell, one of the greatest to wear any jersey..came to us a year after suffering a near catastrophic injury and went on to a hall of fame career. Would I prefer he had no injury history? Sure. But he's still the most pro ready QB in this class. I'm not even out here trying to say he's going to be any good, but to knock him for his past injuries is silly. Its cool that Shough has a size and arm talent, but to ignore his injury history and call him the most pro ready is silly. Shadeur Sanders has a similar number of attempts, more TDs, and less INTs at the D1 level. The same number of reps with more TDs and less INTs tells me Sanders is more pro ready. Shough is just big and old. I am not sure a 26 year old rookie has ever had a successful NFL career? Is there precedent? Warren Moon was older but he played 4 years in the CFL first and won the grey cup every year. There have been a few great 6'1-ish QBs who didnt run. I can't find any successful QB who came out of college at 26. So not only does Shough have to turn from glass to steel, he then has to not be steel Chris Weinke or steel Brandon Weeden. Rsanders24 and K Major like this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,415

04-25-2025, 08:09 PM	#2
frydaddy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Lafayette Posts: 1,964 Blog Entries: 1	Re: DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD Originally Posted by BakoSaint Its cool that Shough has a size and arm talent, but to ignore his injury history and call him the most pro ready is silly. Shadeur Sanders has a similar number of attempts, more TDs, and less INTs at the D1 level. The same number of reps with more TDs and less INTs tells me Sanders is more pro ready. Shough is just big and old. I am not sure a 26 year old rookie has ever had a successful NFL career? Is there precedent? Warren Moon was older but he played 4 years in the CFL first and won the grey cup every year. There have been a few great 6'1-ish QBs who didnt run. I can't find any successful QB who came out of college at 26. So not only does Shough have to turn from glass to steel, he then has to not be steel Chris Weinke or steel Brandon Weeden. He played in a pro style system where he was asked to make reads and throws that no other QB in this class did. He has better size, speed and arm strength than Shedeur. Again, I'm not ready to anoint him the starter or even say he'll ever be good, but I think that's true of every QB in this years draft. The whole league passed on Shedeur in the 1st. The browns, who are every but as QB desperate as us had 2 chances to take Shedeur, and yes, Shough too, and passed on both. The Saints obviously believe in the guy. Only time will tell if they're right AsylumGuido and SmashMouth like this.
	Mais forte do que a morte

04-26-2025, 07:01 AM	#3
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,975 Blog Entries: 29	Re: DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD Originally Posted by BakoSaint Its cool that Shough has a size and arm talent, but to ignore his injury history and call him the most pro ready is silly. Shadeur Sanders has a similar number of attempts, more TDs, and less INTs at the D1 level. The same number of reps with more TDs and less INTs tells me Sanders is more pro ready. Shough is just big and old. I am not sure a 26 year old rookie has ever had a successful NFL career? Is there precedent? Warren Moon was older but he played 4 years in the CFL first and won the grey cup every year. There have been a few great 6'1-ish QBs who didnt run. I can't find any successful QB who came out of college at 26. So not only does Shough have to turn from glass to steel, he then has to not be steel Chris Weinke or steel Brandon Weeden. Kurt Warner and Russell Wilson ? There's prolly more...

04-26-2025, 10:22 AM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD Originally Posted by SmashMouth Kurt Warner and Russell Wilson ? There's prolly more... While not 26 Michael “Beerman” Lewis at the age of 30 should fit the criteria. Starbauch was 27 A lot of age for a QB depends on what we are looking for. If we want someone like a Rothlesburger* or Newton that will get the sh1t beat out of them, then body age matters. If we are looking for a Brees where decision making matters the pre-frontal cortex (responsible for executive function) generally doesn’t reach full maturation till mid to late 20s (25-30). Executive function= Task prioritization, decision making. When not functioning properly, it is what makes some people seem lazy. saintsfan1976 and SmashMouth like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

04-26-2025, 10:41 AM	#5
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,415	Re: DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD Originally Posted by TheOak While not 26 Michael “Beerman” Lewis at the age of 30 should fit the criteria. Starbauch was 27 The problem about Shough that isn't an issue with these other examples is that he is being drafted based on the tape he put in at 25yo playing against 20yo kids. Michael Lewis doesn't count because he was just a role player. His career wouldn't justify a #40 overall pick. Had Lewis been drafted #40 overall based on the tape he could put up at 29 against college kids, that would obviously have been a mistake. Staubach was drafted based on what he did in college up to age 21, at the time they allowed redshirt juniors to be drafted and still play their senior year. He was drafted at 22 based on his play at 21, then played another year of college, 4 years in the military, and was a rookie at 27. Kurt Warner was an UDFA at 23yo who didn't make the team, then played 3 years in the Arena league against men his own age, improved his skills, and made the best of another shot in the NFL. He proved his worth against players his age. Warren Moon was a similar situation with the CFL. Russell Wilson was 23yo as NFL rookie, and was drafted in the 3rd round. He also played 4 full seasons in college and won the starting job every season except his redshirt year. Shough is more like Weinke or Weeden. Its not that he cannot succeed. I hope he succeeds. Its that you can't totally believe what you see on tape versus kids who are 5 years younger than him. We have to get lucky. There is no tape of Shough looking like an NFL QB against players his age, the last time he faced players his age he looked mediocre. I would feel better about Shough if he had declared for the draft 3 years ago, gone undrafted, went to the CFL or XFL, etc, won rings there, and we won a bidding war for his NFL services. Sam Darnold is only 21 months older than Shough.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,415

04-26-2025, 11:07 AM	#6
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,975 Blog Entries: 29	Re: DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD Originally Posted by BakoSaint The problem about Shough that isn't an issue with these other examples is that he is being drafted based on the tape he put in at 25yo playing against 20yo kids. Michael Lewis doesn't count because he was just a role player. His career wouldn't justify a #40 overall pick. Had Lewis been drafted #40 overall based on the tape he could put up at 29 against college kids, that would obviously have been a mistake. Staubach was drafted based on what he did in college up to age 21, at the time they allowed redshirt juniors to be drafted and still play their senior year. He was drafted at 22 based on his play at 21, then played another year of college, 4 years in the military, and was a rookie at 27. Kurt Warner was an UDFA at 23yo who didn't make the team, then played 3 years in the Arena league against men his own age, improved his skills, and made the best of another shot in the NFL. He proved his worth against players his age. Warren Moon was a similar situation with the CFL. Russell Wilson was 23yo as NFL rookie, and was drafted in the 3rd round. He also played 4 full seasons in college and won the starting job every season except his redshirt year. Shough is more like Weinke or Weeden. Its not that he cannot succeed. I hope he succeeds. Its that you can't totally believe what you see on tape versus kids who are 5 years younger than him. We have to get lucky. There is no tape of Shough looking like an NFL QB against players his age, the last time he faced players his age he looked mediocre. I would feel better about Shough if he had declared for the draft 3 years ago, gone undrafted, went to the CFL or XFL, etc, won rings there, and we won a bidding war for his NFL services. Sam Darnold is only 21 months older than Shough. The Louisville tape all year showed enough for most, against way better competition than what Colorado faced. iceshack149 likes this.

04-27-2025, 04:38 AM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD Originally Posted by BakoSaint Michael Lewis doesn't count because… This is why I replied to Smash. You have a propensity to make a general statement, then start moving goalposts. This isn’t a debate, if you chose to not recognize that someone fits into your original requirement that is on you.

04-27-2025, 08:41 AM	#8
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,975 Blog Entries: 29	Re: DRAFT 2025 LIVE THREAD Originally Posted by BakoSaint Michael Lewis doesn't count because… Originally Posted by TheOak This is why I replied to Smash. You have a propensity to make a general statement, then start moving goalposts. This isn’t a debate, if you chose to not recognize that someone fits into your original requirement that is on you. I am not Bako, Oakie.... Have more coffee this morning and let's enjoy what this new regime has accomplished with this draft. It appears to be a real good one.